The Rich Man called out/prayed to Abraham

[ufamtobie]

(Luke 16: 24) He called out, Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water to refresh my tongue, for I am tortured in these flames.

My point is, If a Rich Man who died and was burried can call out/pray to Abraham who was in heaven, for help, why can’t we the living call out/pray to Abraham or to any Saint in heaven and above all the Saints call out/pray to Our Blessed Mother Mary, for our needs as well?

It is true we can go straight to Jesus Christ, But Jesus in this parable is not upset at all that the rich man who went to Abraham for help.

This parable tells all of us that it is Good to do so, to go to the Saints in Heaven for help! If I/We could pray for our brothers and sisters all over the World how much more the Saints that are already in Heaven?

Ufamtobie

 

[Yerusalyim]

While your point is correct and well taken, technically, both the rich man and Abraham were in “the abode of the dead” which was neither heaven nor hell. The gates of heaven had not yet been opened by Christ. The righteous and unrighteous dead were seperated. But again, your point is well taken. Those who die do NOT cease to be part of the Church and they care for us and pray for us and we can ask their prayers.

As a side note, I’ve often thought that this Lazarus was the same one whom Jesus raised.

 

[AlegreFe]

I call on the saints sometimes to ask for their help. But the one I go to the most is the Virgin Mary. I pray to Jesus most of the time but when I do pray to any of the saints it is Mary.

The cloud of witnesses is there too, in the book of Hebrews chapter 12.

FYI to protestants; “pray to” does not mean “to worship.” It only means to make a request. We ask the saints to pray for us. We do not worship the saints, and that includes Mary. So please don’t say that we worship Mary, because we don’t.

 

[ufamtobie]

While your point is correct and well taken, technically, both the rich man and Abraham were in “the abode of the dead” which was neither heaven nor hell. The gates of heaven had not yet been opened by Christ. The righteous and unrighteous dead were seperated. But again, your point is well taken. Those who die do NOT cease to be part of the Church and they care for us and pray for us and we can ask their prayers.

As a side note, I’ve often thought that this Lazarus was the same one whom Jesus raised.

Hi Yerusalyim,

Yes, even in the (abode of the dead) there are two sides which can be considered as one being hell (tormented) and the other being heaven (found consolation)

I have thought that as well, that Abraham still heard the Rich Mans prayer for Jesus did raise a man Called Lazarus, The sad thing is, that the rich man’s brothers the “Pharisees” did not listen to even a man risen from the dead.

Ufamtobie

 

[LilyM]

While your point is correct and well taken, technically, both the rich man and Abraham were in “the abode of the dead” which was neither heaven nor hell. The gates of heaven had not yet been opened by Christ. The righteous and unrighteous dead were seperated. But again, your point is well taken. Those who die do NOT cease to be part of the Church and they care for us and pray for us and we can ask their prayers.

As a side note, I’ve often thought that this Lazarus was the same one whom Jesus raised.

What, a totally horrible miserable sinner was Jesus’ best friend who He wept for? Doubt it, somehow.

 

[Yerusalyim]

What, a totally horrible miserable sinner was Jesus’ best friend who He wept for? Doubt it, somehow.

Lily,
I think you’re confused about the story of Lazarus. Lazarus was a poor man who had to beg for food. At his death he was taken to the abode of the dead and was in happiness with Abraham. No “miserable sinner.”

Lazarus as Jesus friend, we don’t know much about him either, except his sisters were Martha and Mary.

Let’s see…Jesus’ friend Lazarus dies and is ressurected. Jesus tells a story about a man named Lazarus who dies and is taken to the bossom of Abraham…and then the Rich Man speaks of sending Lazarus back as a warning to his brethern…too much coincidence for me…I think these are the same guys…the Lazarus of the Story and the Lazarus who is Jesus’ friend.

 

[PaulDupre]

I seriously doubt that Lazarus the poor beggar of the parable was a real person (it was a parable after all), much less that it was Jesus’ friend the brother of Martha and Mary.

The family home in Bethany where Martha, Mary and Lazarus lived was a prosperous one, evidenced by the fact that Jesus and his disciples went there several times to relax and get a good meal.

Also, when Lazarus died, the family put him into a large tomb (large enough for him to walk out of) hewn out of rock with a large stone to seal it, located on their own property. A family had to be quite prosperous to have such a private tomb created and located on their own property.

Paul

 

[brkn1]

The fact, that Jesus gave a name (Lazarus) to the poor man, is a pretty good indication that this was a true story. The “praying” that the rich man did to Abraham was more of an accusation against God that the rich man was not given a “fair” chance to be persuaded to repent while on earth. Abraham shut that accusation down with his reply that even if “one rose from the dead”, as Jesus would later be, that would not do the job of persuading any who would not listen to God’s Word.

This parable gives no indication that those saints who have died can do anything for those still living on earth. Abraham did not seem inclined in any way to be worried about those still living on earth. He said, “They have Moses and the prophets (including Jesus as Prophet); let them hear them.”

 

[LilyM]

Lily,
I think you’re confused about the story of Lazarus. Lazarus was a poor man who had to beg for food. At his death he was taken to the abode of the dead and was in happiness with Abraham. No “miserable sinner.”

Lazarus as Jesus friend, we don’t know much about him either, except his sisters were Martha and Mary.

Let’s see…Jesus’ friend Lazarus dies and is ressurected. Jesus tells a story about a man named Lazarus who dies and is taken to the bossom of Abraham…and then the Rich Man speaks of sending Lazarus back as a warning to his brethern…too much coincidence for me…I think these are the same guys…the Lazarus of the Story and the Lazarus who is Jesus’ friend.

Sorry, my bad, you’re right. I was thinking of the rich man (whose name is Dives, I think, in one of the Gospels)

 

[LilyM]

The fact, that Jesus gave a name (Lazarus) to the poor man, is a pretty good indication that this was a true story. The “praying” that the rich man did to Abraham was more of an accusation against God that the rich man was not given a “fair” chance to be persuaded to repent while on earth. Abraham shut that accusation down with his reply that even if “one rose from the dead”, as Jesus would later be, that would not do the job of persuading any who would not listen to God’s Word.

This parable gives no indication that those saints who have died can do anything for those still living on earth. Abraham did not seem inclined in any way to be worried about those still living on earth. He said, “They have Moses and the prophets (including Jesus as Prophet); let them hear them.”

Hang on … :newidea: … if Jesus did indeed raise Lazarus from the dead who’s to say the rich man’s prayer wasn’t answered after all?

I don’t think Abraham didn’t care, just realised that even granting the prayer wouldn’t necessarily achieve what the rich man wanted.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Here’s an old testament example of prayers being delivered on behalf of Tobit and Sarah by an angel.

Tob 12:12 When thou didst pray with tears, and didst bury the dead, and didst leave thy dinner, and hide the dead by day in thy house, and bury them by night, I offered thy prayer to the Lord.

St. Paul asks the Ephesians, by all prayer and supplication to pray for him to be able to speak with confidence to make know the mystery of the Gospel.

Eph 6:18 By all prayer and supplication praying at all times in the spirit: and in the same watching with all instance and supplication for all the saints:
Eph 6:19 And for me, that speech may be given me, that I may open my mouth with confidence, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

St. John’s Revelations gives an example of prayers being offered up to the Lord.

Rev 5:8 And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

May the peace of the Lord be with you.
Prodigal Son1