"The Right Thing to Do about a Bad Dad"

[Eliza10]

This post is SO LONG it needs to be divided in FIVE! (Not just the character count, also I divided it up in sensible places). So if you hate long detailed stories, better skip this; you’ll hate it. Here it goes, Pt.1of 5:

This concerns my husband’ 5 year old granddaughter. I’ll call her Sweetpea here, because she is so darn sweet. We are very involved in her life, as are other loving people. The significant loved ones in Sweetpea’s life, besides my husband and I, that are pertinent to this post are:

• her Mom (my husband’s daughter)
• Grandma (my husband’s ex-wife - we all get along!)
• her other grandparents - which is the mother and stepdad of the “Dad”, whom I will call
  “Nana and Poppa” for this post
• and, very unfortunately, the “Dad”.

These are all for the great part really nice folks who really love Sweetpea, and we all take turns caring for her. Grandma homeschools her, and my husband and I watch Sweetpea ANY time we are needed at any notice, and we also support Grandma’s homeschool goals. Sweetpea’s Mom is a great, loving Mom who does work full-time and then some. The only one truly not-nice in Sweetpea’s life is the Dad - who has serious, serious issues.

I have to add, that “Nana” is a bit of a problem, too, which I will describe later, below.

Why I am asking here

I would like (name removed by moderator)ut here from people who have thoughtful ideas on what is the right approach for the talking to Sweetpea about her Dad in the extreme circumstance I will describe below. This is a moral issue as well as a psychological issue. Be assured I am not writing here so people can ave money on professional help. Professionals are getting involved! I just feel very strongly that a damaging approach may be being taken, and I would like to know if anyone else thinks so. Or perhaps someone will link me to further reading on the issue. I would like (name removed by moderator)ut so i can cogitate on what is the right thing in this circumstance. Then, after I have considered what has been said and if I arrive at a firm conviction of what seems to be right, I will share my thoughts with Mom and Grandma, who are the decision makers here. Then they can think about it and decide if they need to take their opinion to professionals. In fact, Grandma and Mom just had their first lawyer meeting, because they realize they need legal support, and Grandma is funding that. There will be a psychologist involved at some point. So your (name removed by moderator)ut here is not any deciding factor, its basically for my own thinking on right and wrong in this case.

[continued in next post]

 

[Eliza10]

Pt. 2 of 5:

Background

My husband’s daughter, the Mom, had a big drug abuse problem and has been clean ten years now. She did a LOT of 12-step NA work, and meetings, sponsors etc. in that time. In the past year, besides just being clean she has really pulled it together and does fulltime work and has her own apartment (she and her daughter lived here with my husband til a year and a half ago).She is being wise now but has not had a knack in the past for wisdom in who to pick for relationships.

She started a relationship with Sweetpea’s Dad in a brief “clean” period of his life. And he was not “great!” when clean as his Mom asserts - he completely lied to the Mom about who he was and his past. He is bipolar (has tried meds but if you know anything about this, you have to be willing to lose “manic” to take the meds, and many, especially those immature selfish ones, just wont do that) and he has lived most of his life not working, stealing, lying, cheating, sleeping around, fighting, drinking (he is a fighting drunk) and drugging and worse. The Mom broke up with the Dad while yet pregnant, as it was clear he was a mess. He hung about for a bit, but quickly got hooked on drugs again.

I met “Dad” the first time about three years ago when I was visiting my husband and the Mom and Dad needed to be picked up from an NA meeting when their car broke down. It was during one of Dad’s very brief “clean” periods, and the Mom thought maybe this could work (because she is not smart in relationships). Little Sweetpea was with them, and after greeting him I complimented him on how wonderful and special Sweetpea is. *Somehow *(!?) he misunderstood me and thought I was talking about him and he puffed up and thanked me. I naturally corrected him, and was shocked when his look changed to look completely crestfallen that I had complimented his daughter and ot him! That is a serious red flag but it truly is who he is. He is all wrapped up in himself, far far to wrapped up to care about offering himself as a Dad. He is unnaturally wrapped up in himself like a small child, as he is a broken, broken, broken man.

It happens that Sweetpea and I hit it off IMMEDIATELY; I love her so much and she loves me back. In a special way. And she is a very very loving child. But I noticed early on something very strange, and its the way she holds her legs very stiff and tight together when I pick her up. Its not natural, especially for one so relaxed in every other way. It speaks of a defense mechanism. I have picked up plenty of kids and never felt this. I immediately worried that someone had once molested her. I have no proof. Only this feeling of alarm about that. And I told her mother, and she denied the possibility. But lately, when I brought it up again, because I think it really matters, she said that she had worried about it too.

And I looked online for hints of how to tell if someone has been molested, and could not find such a list. Also i do not want to speak to Sweetpea, not only because I do not know the proper way to, but also I feel its not my place. Its just my place to be a positive and safe person in her life.

[continued in next post]

 

[Eliza10]

Part 3 of 5:

Nana and Poppa have been involved in Sweetpea’s life much especially as babysitter and with many overnights, particularly because the distance - a few towns over - makes it easier for for her Mom to let her have overnights. This was particularly in the last year or two, when my husband was visiting me in another state a lot so was not there to babysit, and also when she started working. Nan and Poppa LOVE Sweetpea, as we all do. We all appreciate Nana and Poppa, and really Poppa more - because he seems more levelheaded and reasonable and stable. But homeless Dad is the problem, and so is Nana who defends her son, the homeless Dad. Poppa is at work during the day, so its just Nana and homeless Dad at home, and we do not trust Nana to keep the latest visitation agreement if there is no one there to see.

Homeless Dad keeps suing for custody, even though he is homeless and jobless. Sometimes it is denied, and sometimes he is allowed supervised visitation. It seems Mom is forced to take a day off to get dragged into court *once a month *these last two years. Often its a continuance til next month. Lawyers have previously not been involved; the meeting with one today by Mom and Grandma should get a better result eventually (for a price). “Dad” lives in Nana and Poppa’s in an old trashed trailer in the yard they were gong to trash with no electricity or water or toilet facilities. At times they have wanted to kick him out, like after he recently attacked Poppa when drunk and gave him a black eye, but Nan’s mother who lives in town elsewhere owns their house and is sweet on her grandson for some reason and will not let them evict “Dad”. Many months (depending on latest court ruling) Dad is not allowed in the house while Sweetpea is there, other months, he can be if Nana or Poppa are present. Most of the time he has paid zero child support (when ordered to pay, for example, $20 a week when he had a job he did not). A weird twist is that in recent months some farmer has agreed to let him live at his place AND pay regularly on the large back child support “Dad” owes in exchange for him working the farm - that’s how it was originally explained. But “Dad” NEVER has been able to labor, he won’t lift even a pinky finger for anyone, even less so if its *asked *of him. It was weird but good timing for Nana and Poppa because the latest court ruling was that Sweetpea could never go there because “Dad” lived in the yard. Now with Dad at a different address, she could. The latest twist is that “Dad” secretly moved back into the trailer, and had been there weeks, supposedly without Nana and Poppa knowing. He mistakenly gave their address at the latest hearing, so now Nana and Poppa don’t have visitation.

In April my husband and I had driven south and Sweetpea was there and due at hour house so we picked her up on the way home. We were invited in and I was very surprised to see “dad” in the living room with them and all acting like this was normal (I’d heard that he lived in the trailer). Sweetpea was showing me some pictures she’d colored and “Dad” came by while she was talking and slithered his hand around her neck and put a donut hole in front of her mouth and kept it there while Sweetpea leaned this way to get away but he kept it there, moving with her, hand around her neck, while she was trying to finish her talking. He finally gave up when someone told her to stop,. It looked like she didn’t’ want it. It was so bizarre I was disturbed. It bothered me a long time after.

(If anyone is reading this for legal details, I will say Nana and Poppa have no real visitation. Their baby-sitting has been very helpful to the Mom. She can withhold it altogether if she wants. But its not Nana and Poppa we are all worried about, its “Dad”).

[continued in next post]

 

[Eliza10]

Part 4 of 5:

My Question for (name removed by moderator)ut

While Poppa, “Dad”'s stepdad, is reasonable, Nana is more emotional, driven, rash, and the rather crazy-supportive of her son, and - this is my big concern: she works very hard at forcing Sweetpea to “love her *Daddy!” *and say she “misses” him and to pushes her to say all kinds of sweet things about a man she is CLEARLY uncomfortable around. In fact for a time, as recent as a year ago, Sweetpea used to cry and scream when she had to go to Nana and Poppa’s house because of seeing her Dad there! Nana is extremely emotionally manipulative that way with Sweetpea.

And Sweetpea’s Mom has bought into this formula - at least she used to - she may now be second guessing it. When I asked Mom awhile back if she was sure to let Sweeetpea know that her father was “sick” and could never be a real Dad to her - she said, “No, I never interfere. That’s her *father.” * And I get that philosophy. Also I never interfered with my son’s father’s relationship with his son after he left us and I had plenty I could have said. He had serious personality disorder and moral problems - so I had reason to, but I believe except in severe cases like Sweetpea’s Dad, if a man can act at *all * like a good Dad/normal person its best to let it be.

My concern and my gut feeling is that it is wrong to teach Sweetpea to ignore her gut feelings aobut not being safe around her Dad. Her Dad is SO SO far from being a normal person. Its bad! In fact that “farm job” is probably not a farm job. “Mom” says that most likely he is prostituting himself to this man. “Mom” does not lie; she speaks the truth. He has done this before with men, before he met “Mom” (foolish Mom thinks if she reforms then others can too, but some never do! And “Dad” is WAY far gone, way off the deep end). This is the only believable explanation for the “farm job” for a man who cannot labor 5 minutes - its the only “service” he has to offer, and believe me, if you met him for a second you’d believe it. The farmer kicked “Dad” out of his house, which is why “Dad” snuck back into the trailer. Yet, farmer keeps paying “Dad”'s back child support.

So he is a very sexually and morally sick man. In fact, Nana said the reason why he is so messed up is that a babysitter used to molest him when he was little. So it all fits. So I totally get it. The man is sick, and ofr good reason. May God have mercy on him. And may we all keep him in prayer! But the thing is, Nana should not be pushing this relationship onto Sweetpea. And Mom (and all of us, with Mom’s permission) need to teach Sweetpea that its good to listen to her own gut reaction to a person, and that her Dad is not dependable, he is a broken man who will most likely never get better. If he does, good, but he probably never will.

“Dad” also manipulates Sweetpea, too. Sweetpea’s last name is “Jones” like her Mom’s and all of ours. But Dad told Sweetpea that her name is really “Sweetpea Smith”, like *his *name. (Its not and it NEVER was). This came up in a conversation with her Mom. But I think this is only the tip of the iceberg as far as the manipulations form “Dad” and Nana.

Today I tried to broach the subject, carefully with Sweetpea, but I did not get far because I could see from her body language the subject troubled her. I was asking her if she knows her last name, and she started to get uncomfortable. I said, “Its like Grandma’s” and then she pronounced it wrong. I guess because she is not in school, and is not used to hearing her last name. The only last name grilled into her was the one her Dad said - so no surprise she then added, “my Dad says is ‘Sweetpea Smith’”. I said, “No! Your last name is Jones, just like Mommy! And also Grandma and us!” Then she abruptly walked away to find her kitty and started to suck her thumb, so I dropped it. Her immediately uncomfortable body language told me she had been manipulated.

So that’s for a psychologist to work out with her. The big problem how do you explain “Dad” to her, especially after Nana has been working so hard to make “Dad” seem *special! Important! *Like she buys toys to give to “Dad” to give to Sweetpea, makes a BIG DEAL about the presentation, and then she goes on and on abut how “Daddy loves you that’s why he buys you presents”. But I think its WRONG to build up a Dad to Sweetpea who will only hurt her. And Dangerous, given that he is a sexual deviant. But not only that! You are teaching her to trust and have trusting fatherly relations with a man who has ONLY EVER shown that he will dash EVERY hope and expectation made for him no matter how small! And he will do that as SOON as he sees there is trust there.

Also Sweetpea happens to be an unusually beautiful child as well as trusting and enthusiastically loving. She makes people love her, another reason to fear being around her Dad whom I think will hate and want to ruin her goodness. We are all afraid ofhis friends.

I think she should be warned that he is a person who always hurts people. That he is nice one day then suddenly not nice the next. Actually she has seen this and said it. She should be told to avoid all people like this! To never be alone with them! To not trust them! She should be told - something other than what she is told by Nana, and also not the “nothing” and “hands-off policy” of her Mom currently. (Her Mom s recently starting to reconsider things. Like she told me this week, yes, she had once been concerned that Sweetpea’s father might have molested her, and she is considering “Dad’s” fights with people all the time, the black eyes, the drunk driving, and such).

So if someone helps me see to the right of this, I will cogitate on it and share my final thoughts, after prayer, with the Mom and Grandma, who will then consider on their own if they should take it to the psychologist.

[final installment in next post]:

 

[Eliza10]

Post 5 of 5:

Finally, I want to remind everyone that I want*** moral advice **for what is the right and safe way that Sweetpea should have her father explained to her - not to act upon but for my own understanding. Remember, I am writing her becaseu I need to understand this in my head and heart. We HAVE legal and psychological advice, I *want MORAL advice - maybe with a touch of psychology if one is a person that knows about abusive people in children’s lives. The advice is really for ME to understand what is right in this situation, so I can briefly share my final conclusions on the matter with the Mom and Grandma - who are reasonable people who only have Sweetpea’s best interests in mind, and would welcome and consider my thought.

Thanks for considering this.

 

[mommy_k]

There is no way on earth that I would allow sweet pea to be around her father or nana unil his medication is monitored monthly for a year or more regardless if nana is there. He would also benefit from rehab.

I would not care one iota if the other grandparents are removed becuase they are protecting their son-who is protecting sweet pea???

The moral obligation is for sweet pea to have a stable, safe, and loving family. She does not have this with nana. Nana cares only about her son and sweetpea is only a tool for her to use to make her son happy.

I think the moral thing to do is have the court cut them all off until the son is no longer a danger to his child. Sweet pea is better off with a babysitter or childcare while mom works-and dad should be billed for it. Nana can pay if the relationship is to be mainatained after her son gets better.

Sorry for being so blunt-but when I read that a sweet child of God is in a harmful enviornment, I get like this.

 

[marymary1975]

I may be biased because my daughter’s father was also bipolar, but swertpea’s dad sounds a lot and I mean a lot like my first husband: refused to take medication, drug addiction, jobless expecting me to give him money to support himself, financially irresponsible, violent , etc. I would not allow sweet pea around her dad because with a dad like dad unfortunately he will cause damage in some way to the girl. I think mom needs to speak to a lawyer and take both legal and physical custody of sweet pea away from his dad. That was what I had to do and I struggled a lot with it until I started noticing the clear damage that he was causing her. I had to get a divorce and take all parental rights away from him and supervision was only allowed under strict supervision from a Court officer. Eventually my ex husband on his own started not to show up to visitation and became clear that he was not interested in having a relationship with my daughter. In my case my ex husband ended up dying of a drug overdose and while it may sound harsh I think it was the best thing it could happen for her. I do really feel that in this case the child needs to be protected from her father and you want to do it as soon as you can. If I were on your shoes I would strongly encourage mom to go to Court and fight for full custody and keep sweet pea away from her father as much as it can be done and limit and supervise their interaction.

As to your question of how to explain it to the child, that is something I still struggle too even worse now that my child is a pre-teen. You cannot cover the sun with a finger but you don’t want to lie to the child either. My daughter has very bad memories of her father (and this is before she turned five) and she specifically remembers two very bad events with him even though she was very little. What I have said to her over the years is that her dad unfortunately had a disease that affected his brain and because of this disease he would act the way he did. A couple of years ago speaking about the incident she herself answered me (after telling her well he did that because he was a sick person and maybe had he not been sick he wouldn’t have done that) that that wasn’t true that her father was evil because xyz . So it is very hard and I am still trying to figure it out. If seeetpea is still little maybe you can try as me saying that her dad has a disease but keep in mind that she is watching and paying attention to everything and she will make her own mind about the father’s behavior and the older she gets the more complicated to explain it gets.

I am still trying to find answers as to how to deal with the effects of her father’s behavior and how to explain things to her truthfully but without attacking her father so if you find out let me know too

 

[marymary1975]

The moral obligation is for sweet pea to have a stable, safe, and loving family. She does not have this with nana. Nana cares only about her son and sweetpea is only a tool for her to use to make her son happy.

I think the moral thing to do is have the court cut them all off until the son is no longer a danger to his child. Sweet pea is better off with a babysitter or childcare while mom works-and dad should be billed for it. Nana can pay if the relationship is to be mainatained after her son gets better.

Sorry for being so blunt-but when I read that a sweet child of God is in a harmful enviornment, I get like this.

Yes yes and more yes. Mommy K is completely right particularly about the moral obligation.

 

[Legend]

Remember, Elia (the OP) is NOT a blood relative, and therefore, her legal options are limited. All she can do is to try and influence Sweet pea’s " real" family.
Which consists of, in the info given
Mom
Dad
Eliza’s husband
Nana
Grandma

It seems as if you, Eliza, have been trying to talk to most of them. Dad is not going to try on his own. Mom seems to fluctuate. Nana wants to protect her son. What about your husband? He is the natural grandfather, and his testimony should carry as much weight as Nana’s.

But this situation , if it hasn’t already, will go to the authorities. Teachers and child care workers will notice something soon. Will Sweet pea be going to kindergarten next year?

It sounds like a "don’t rock the boat"situation-no one wants to be the bad guy. That’s why it can happen at all.

Eliza, I know this is’nt a complete solution, but just be there for Sweet pea. Don’t question her too much, but answer any and all questions this little girl may ask. Try and get your husband involved. And, of course, pray for all concerned! I wish I had more encouraging things to say. You might attempt an anonymous call to the child protection agency, but it’s really important for th child to have someone to whom she can talk about anything. Anything at all.

 

[Legend]

Sorry…I re-read your posts, and it seems that Sweetpea is being home schooled, which I usually see as a good thing. But it cuts down on the disinterested parties who will be observing her.

I know you noticed it three years ago, and a five-year-old is going to be picked up a lot less often than a two-year-old, but does she still display any unusual behavior, protective of her legs or private parts? If so, you can inform her doctor, even by phone, when she has her next checkup.

And I agree with the others who answered you; nana is not just unwise, but dangerous! In a way, even a bit more than her son, because he can easily be seen for what he is, while she just looks like a nice lady who wants her son and grandchild to get along.

You can show these posts to your stepdaughter and her mother, maybe that will get them to be more aggressive next time “Dad” takes them to court. I’ll pray for all of you. A sweet child is being manipulated and probably abused, which should never happen.

 

[mommy_k]

And if sweetpeas dad or nana have money to continue to go to court-they have money for child support.

 

[Eliza10]

Thank you so much for these thoughtful responses. I am still thinking on them! I can take my time because right now the “Dad” is without any right to visitation. As I said, this seems to change all the time. I think that “Nana” will not risk pushing it as they are now unable to have Sweetpea for overnights, with their son living there.

I am also taking my time because I feel I may have just one opportunity to express my viewpoint, and I need to express it well and *clearly *and *preferably in person *(the best way to have important conversations). Its not my place to tell anyone what to do, and I cannot keep re-stating my case. I need to plan to make my case once, and well - then they choose what to act on. Mom and Grandma are reasonable people so I don’t have to worry about that.

I already tried a conversation with “Mom” this week. She was at our house napping between jobs. Unfortunately I acted too fast. I did not plan out what I was going to say, and “Mom” pre-disposed feelings before I even spoke were all* defensive* - she is a person who has been through a lot - and I think she was expecting criticism for how she was doing things, and so she kept misunderstanding and jumping ahead of what I was saying, misjudging what my conclusion would be. ThenI woudl have to back track and correct and make sure she understood, then try to get to my point but I never did because of misunderstanding. Like, she thought I was saying she should not have Sweetpea with Nana and Poppa anymore ever again - which I did *not *say at all. So I backed away from the conversation, thinking: “I did not plan this right. I also need to check her mood before I speak.” That’s because she is a bit of a mood-driven person, and because in the past I have experienced her completely misunderstand what I said (she sort of runs with her first mis-understanding of the conversation), when she is in this same sort of defensive mood. To add to that, during this conversation attempt, my husband came in, and wanting to lighten things, and as a silly part of conversation, he made a joke about her past lying - a problem in the past she had when she had the drug problem! He meant her no ill by saying this, but this “joke” was really inappropriately-timed for my conversation! Dh had no idea what I was thinking “Oh, no, Mom’s defensive mood is going to interfere in her hearing”]. So that’s when I decided to change the subject! So I need to pick my time. I need to be clear on what the conversation will be.

And I need to keep my husband clearly informed of when the conversation is going to take place!

Grandma and I won’t have this communication problem, but I need to wait til I see her, because, like I said, important conversations are best in person. Really Grandma is who I should talk to, because she won’t misunderstand and she will clarify things with her daughter when she sees she is misunderstanding. But i need to talk to the Mom, too.

“Legend”, you asked: what about my husband. As different as we are, we communicate well and trust each other. He knows I am concerned about this and wanting to express my opinion on it, and he knows I am writing here for (name removed by moderator)ut. He stands behind me (and I him) and if we ever disagree with each other we are unafraid to say so - we are glad to listen to each other’s opposing opinions when that happens, and, not wanting to displease each other, we monitor and adjust our actions. (Yes, we’re very blessed in that way!).

You also said that “…Nana is not just unwise, but dangerous!.. she just looks like a nice lady who wants her son and grandchild to get along.”

This is true, but I also want to add that there is another problem: “Mom” feels its very WRONG to tell her daughter that her Dad is potentially dangerous or even “not safe”! This came up in my unsuccessful attempt at conversation this week. That’s partly why I named this post “What to do about a Bad Dad” because I would like a moral opinion on this! I KNOW Mom is wrong on this, but I do not know how to approach explaining this. Her “hands-off Dad” approach to protecting the father/daughter relationship in this case is wrong, but she feels its the* morally right* way to be. She is quite adamant on that. If the Dad is just a "normally: bad dad, like, a selfish or self-absorbed person, then probably yes, you might probably just leave it be. Its what I did. [My son is a college student now and I can’t really tell you if this was best yet. I prayed for wisdom all the time and just chose the path of letting it go, and holding my tongue on what I thought of his Dad]. But my son’s Dad, unlike this one, was not *dangerous. * So I am forming my thoughts for the conversation: like, as adults we know who is not safe and we act appropriately. But a child needs to be warned. Otherwise, with their naivety, we are truly putting them in harm’s way. I also think that she needs to be told nothing her Dad says can be kept secret - because abusers/users/deviants like to make children keep secrets). If I make this case clearly when I make it, I think Grandma woudl be sure to discuss it with the child psychologist professional.

[continued on next post]

 

[Eliza10]

[continued from previous post]

“Mommy k”, thanks for a thoughtful replies. Yes, monitoring of meds would have to be done by court order, and might come up in the case the lawyer is taking on. “Mom” tells me (through her experience with users) that the court would do it monthly (which does not seem often enough to me!).

You are right, Nana is not safe right now. That’s why she is now losing time with Sweetpea. The fact is “Mom” is glad for the free babysitting. And Nana and Poppa, except for Nana’s ignorance of her own son, are loving caregivers, and Sweetpea loves them - they are important people in her life.

As to “free babysitting”, I have assured “Mom” that we will take Sweetpea here whenever she needs. So that is increasing and we are adjusting to more overnights and more time homeschooling. Its a bit of an adjustment at this time, but Sweetpea is a priority so we are making it work. I am not in favor of babysitters and childcare myself, so, if I am going to hold this view I have to be willing to stand behind it and pick up the slack, which calls for re-prioritizing, and so I am.

I think with a court order of no visitation for Dad, Nana and Poppa will stick with the order, because they love Sweetpea and do not want to time with her threatened (as it is now). Also if “Mom”, Grandma, and the child psychologist are all on the same page about “Dad”, then I really think Nana won’t risk pushing it. Also, since you mentioned it, Nana and Poppa never pay child support. “Mom” has been glad for free babysitting all along. “Dad” owes back child support, several hundred, on the about $10 a week he has been ordered to pay all along. But that is currently being paid by the farmer guy he visits, to whom “Dad” is rendering the very questionable services (we think it cannot possibly be farm labor of any kind)…

“marymary1975”, thank you for your thoughtful replies, too. I really appreciate sharing your personal experience. That helps me a lot since this is not an experience I had (dealing with your child’s bi-polar or addicted Dad). You are right - its “full custody” she needs to fight for. I am going to ask “Grandma” about this (the one who is paying for the court case, and is “Mom”'s primary adviser). Your daughter’s Dad dying - you never know God’s plan. He could have been saving your daughter as well as her father from more and more trouble and sooner rather than later to end his life might have even saved his eternal soul. Such things we can’t know, till one day all these things are clear).

Its interesting what you explained to your daughter, becaseu “Mom”, “Nana” and “Poppa” all tell her that her Dad has a “disease”. I feel it should be taken a step further - the Sweetpea should know that its a disease he many never recover from, and that he is not safe to be alone with, and *that she should not never keep any secret he tells her. * He Mom or Grandma should be told everything in order to be safe.

BTW, good news, and what looks like my answer to prayer that truth comes out, is that “Dad” seems to have just gotten a DUI! The details were not released by the court/police, and Nana and Poppa did not tell us this, however, the lawyer Grandma just hired dug up this bit of recent news. Since “Dad” has never seen this lawyer, he will attend the court case and get details! This is great because you cannot just say someone is a drunk, you need solid *proof. * Its court findings that will help most in this custody case!

 

[bitterhope]

One of my brothers is a lot like the dad in this situation. He died as a result of his addiction. He left a widow and young son. Honestly, it was the best possible outcome for my nephew. That’s a horrible thing to admit to. I loved my brother, but there is no way I would ever cover up for him. We have a huge family and between his issues and one of my sisters having similar but different problems, many siblings no longer speak. Somehow I managed to stay in everyone’s good graces, not sure how My best advice, from the bottom of my heart is please, please, please do whatever it takes to protect that little girl. I homeschool my kids as well, but in your grand daughter’s case, public school would be a huge blessing for her. My kids have been in public school in the past and may go again if we PCS to an area with decent schools in the future. If you choose to keep homeschooling I would not fault you. It’s a great experience and I love it. But if she were in school, some if the babysitting/childcare would no longer be an issue, visitation would have to be worked out around school schedules, she would have access to school counselors and other trusted adults, she would have peer support, etc. Mom is not doing her part in all this. She needs to wise up and stop making excuses.

 

[Eliza10]

One of my brothers is a lot like the dad in this situation. He died as a result of his addiction. He left a widow and young son. Honestly, it was the best possible outcome for my nephew. That’s a horrible thing to admit to. I loved my brother, but there is no way I would ever cover up for him. We have a huge family and between his issues and one of my sisters having similar but different problems, many siblings no longer speak. Somehow I managed to stay in everyone’s good graces, not sure how My best advice, from the bottom of my heart is please, please, please do whatever it takes to protect that little girl. I homeschool my kids as well, but in your grand daughter’s case, public school would be a huge blessing for her. My kids have been in public school in the past and may go again if we PCS to an area with decent schools in the future. If you choose to keep homeschooling I would not fault you. It’s a great experience and I love it. But if she were in school, some if the babysitting/childcare would no longer be an issue, visitation would have to be worked out around school schedules, she would have access to school counselors and other trusted adults, she would have peer support, etc. Mom is not doing her part in all this. She needs to wise up and stop making excuses.

Hi “bitterhope” - wow, what a name! You have something in common with Our Lady, then, whose name also means “bitter”. Now this is a second person who spoke of death in the same sort of case as a relief. I could never hope for that, of course; only God knows when that is really best. All I want is custody and visitation taken for the obvious reasons explained above. In your case and marymary’s, above, it is easy to imagine that God must have had a protective purpose in mind for the child - and certainly also the soul of that addict.

Sweetpea really has it good with her homeschooling. Grandmas has custody of Sweetpea’s 13 year old sister (technically “half”) who was conceived in basically a rape when Mom was 15. Mom later went quickly downhill into drug abuse and that’s when Grandmas took custody and has had it since (with plenty of interaction with Mom, who as I explained is much improved and has been clean 10 years - she got clean as soon as she lost custody of her daughter and did all the 12 step and meeting work one does in this case.). Grandma is an devoted Evangelic Christian and involved in her church and local homeschool group. She is happy to homeschool Sweetpea. And since homeschool my son K-2, I am more than happy to support her goals. Really Sweetpea is well loved and very well-adjusted. All the people who love her get along and basically there is no competition for her (sometime I think Nana might be that way, but I think because she loves Sweetpea and there is no custody agreement concerning her, so, she tries to prove she is great; so, the stridency is coming from fear). There is just this dark scary person in her life that she is unfortunately encouraged to call “Daddy”.

So I do think homeschool is very good in this case. And I will always support those goals. I am willing to adjust to babysit when needed. Its an adjustment to be sure! I have less time to get things done, right when i was really getting on top of things - that seems to be slipping! - however, one has to evaluate what’s important. And at the end of my life, I know every bit of time I made Sweetpea a priority I will be grateful for.

Mom is doing really well. She is supporting herself and her daughter with her work, which is big. Also, her daughter really loves Mom, best. She loves others, including me! Which I love! But she loves and needs her Mom. And anyway I can help relieve Mom’s stress is important. She needs more babysitting time than I ever needed, but I did not have to put my son in school and support an apartment for us until my son was in 3rd grade. And then I had child support. Sweetpea’s Mom does not. Also, I substitute taught and had summers off and more days off than Sweetpea’s Mom does. So I do not want to judge it, or be tempted to compare her with me, because it is a different situation. A child’s relationship with her very own mother is important,so I want to support it. I feel a real mission to support single Moms, knowing what a struggle it is. I think its really important that families rally around broken families. So I am trying to practice what I believe is right.

Bitterhope, in your situation you must have gotten real good at staying under the radar to be in everyone’s good graces! I’m sure its a skill that’s useful in many situations.

 

[bitterhope]

Hi “bitterhope” - wow, what a name! You have something in common with Our Lady, then, whose name also means “bitter”. Now this is a second person who spoke of death in the same sort of case as a relief. I could never hope for that, of course; only God knows when that is really best. All I want is custody and visitation taken for the obvious reasons explained above. In your case and marymary’s, above, it is easy to imagine that God must have had a protective purpose in mind for the child - and certainly also the soul of that addict.

Sweetpea really has it good with her homeschooling. Grandmas has custody of Sweetpea’s 13 year old sister (technically “half”) who was conceived in basically a rape when Mom was 15. Mom later went quickly downhill into drug abuse and that’s when Grandmas took custody and has had it since (with plenty of interaction with Mom, who as I explained is much improved and has been clean 10 years - she got clean as soon as she lost custody of her daughter and did all the 12 step and meeting work one does in this case.). Grandma is an devoted Evangelic Christian and involved in her church and local homeschool group. She is happy to homeschool Sweetpea. And since homeschool my son K-2, I am more than happy to support her goals. Really Sweetpea is well loved and very well-adjusted. All the people who love her get along and basically there is no competition for her (sometime I think Nana might be that way, but I think because she loves Sweetpea and there is no custody agreement concerning her, so, she tries to prove she is great; so, the stridency is coming from fear). There is just this dark scary person in her life that she is unfortunately encouraged to call “Daddy”.

So I do think homeschool is very good in this case. And I will always support those goals. I am willing to adjust to babysit when needed. Its an adjustment to be sure! I have less time to get things done, right when i was really getting on top of things - that seems to be slipping! - however, one has to evaluate what’s important. And at the end of my life, I know every bit of time I made Sweetpea a priority I will be grateful for.

Mom is doing really well. She is supporting herself and her daughter with her work, which is big. Also, her daughter really loves Mom, best. She loves others, including me! Which I love! But she loves and needs her Mom. And anyway I can help relieve Mom’s stress is important. She needs more babysitting time than I ever needed, but I did not have to put my son in school and support an apartment for us until my son was in 3rd grade. And then I had child support. Sweetpea’s Mom does not. Also, I substitute taught and had summers off and more days off than Sweetpea’s Mom does. So I do not want to judge it, or be tempted to compare her with me, because it is a different situation. A child’s relationship with her very own mother is important,so I want to support it. I feel a real mission to support single Moms, knowing what a struggle it is. I think its really important that families rally around broken families. So I am trying to practice what I believe is right.

Bitterhope, in your situation you must have gotten real good at staying under the radar to be in everyone’s good graces! I’m sure its a skill that’s useful in many situations.

Bitterhope is the literal translation of my name (my Indian name). My brother that died was Horse Against the Wind. Our names really suit us more than we would like at times. Addiction runs strong among American Indians. We have way too many dying young or wallowing in poverty and illness because of it. I think the main reason I’m still in everyone’s good graces is the fact my husband and I haven’t lived near family in many years (either side) since he’s in the Army. It’s been good for us. Bug truthfully for being such a big family we all get along amazingly well–all 16 of us!

I understand the homeschooling. If it’s working well please keep it up. It works for my kids too. Your whole family is in my prayers. It’s a situation no one ever deserves to deal with. It’s heartbreaking. My brother has been gone for four years and there are still times it hurts like yesterday. God took care of it in His way and I’m relieved we no longer have the fear of what’s happening next, but the loss of my brother–my best friend (we were very close)–has never gotten easier. Part of me died when he did. I trust God did what was best and he was surprisingly pulling himself together so I think it was God’s way of taking him while he was worthy of salvation. His son was young enough he has no memory of the way things were. It is a relief he will not have that hurt as well. But no, losing my brother ripped me to shreds and nothing will ever fix what it broke inside me. I really don’t want that for your granddaughter, your family, or his either. Praying hard for everyone involved to St. Michael and St. Maximilian Kolbe.

 

[Eliza10]

Pt. 1 of 3

Wow, Biiterhope, such a large family! Yes, I often think of how the Native Americans are plagued with addiction. Yes, living not in-the-thick of things certainly must help maintain relations. Also having a loving husband. it sounds like you do. Thank you for prayers. Yes, St. Michael and I would love good St. Maximilian Kolbe’s prayers too - but why his in particular?

I am feeling sad, concerned, worried. I will take these anxieties to the Lord in Adoration this weekend. Its what I am feeling. There are new developments. Its so hard because I love Sweetpea and I do feel her Mom is rather blind. She has fears that get in the way of seeing clearly.

I wrote a long letter telling them both what happened yesterday. “Mom” had asked me to write it down and I wrote long, explaining my concerns about “dad” that aI shared here, beside how the day ended yesterday.

However, I did decide after writing out all my concerns that I am certainly going to stop calling him “her dad”. I am going to call him just plain old Rick. (That is NOT his name in real life, and ALL of the names and nickname in these Sweetpea posts are pretend names).

I wrote the email letter to both Sweetpea’s Mom and Grandma, because I feel that Grandma is less blinded by fears, and more reasonable. However it does have me impatient that I have not heard back from her. But I called Sweetpea’s Mom twice today and finally she called me back, and told me new stuff, which only increased my concerns.

I am very limited in what I can do with these concerns. However, I can pray. I can decide how I will behave to all the parties (and I have decided some things), and I can watch, and now I am online reading about predators and “grooming”. I am getting educated. And I can talk to Mom and Grandma, but I am not sure how that will go. I can only do so much.

I will try to explain this latest problem. Wednesday dinner is the only time Sweetpea must see her father, and right now its “supervised” with Mom there. Mom arrives last, though, when work is done.

Sweetpea also now spends time with Nana and Poppa on Saturday, and Rick is NOT supposed to be there.

Sweetpea spent Tuesday and Wednesday (yesterday) with us, with the overnight. We had a nice peaceful day - outside play, inside crafts, reading, more. At the end of the day, when I talked about her getting picked up in an hour (4pm-ish) she started to get anxious, displaying self-comforting behavior she had not displayed the whole visit. Thumb-sucking, stuffed animal holding, rocking.

So I talked out about tonight’s dinner. Anxiety ensured.* Isn’t it normal, and right to tell a child what to expect of the day? *(her Mom later said don’t’ talk about it -since Sweetpea gets anxious - just spring it on her - but I think this is wrong). When I spoke to Sweetpea about the dinner I definitely did not expect it would make her anxious - I thougth it woudl soothe her. After all, Mom was going to be there, and take her home after. Its a one and a half hour visit!

So, thinking this was reassuring, to be told what to expect, I explained this is what you always do on Wednesday, Nana and Poppa will be there and “your dad” (whom I will never call “your dad” to her anymore) and your Mommy will be there. And you go home with Mommy." But her anxious behavior increased, and she* even said she wanted to “be alone”*. This is new! So I went in the next room, while she sat and rocked, until she invited me back. I read to her and then she requested to play outside so we went out. I got a call, Nana saying they were on their way to pick her up. (Later I offered to drive Sweetpea to her Moms work so Mom could take her, but her Mom explained to me that it HAS to be this way because of court order says she HAS to be with Rick at precisely 4:30pm or police could come get her! - ?? - I do think that Mom is not thinking clearly on this but I cannot press my points).

[continued]

 

[Eliza10]

Part 2 of 3

Nana and Poppa pull up and Nana gets out of the car and makes an aggressive beeline for Sweetpea, who sees and RUNS in the house. I though to get her shoes, but Nana knew better. Nana swore: “What the F—” (a signal of the agitation she seems to be living in lately that makes me worry for Sweetpea, because I have* not seen her swear in anger before.* But “Mom” says that night Nana did more swearing, in front of Sweetpea, including “m…f…”").

And then Nana* ran in my house * in pursuit of Sweetpea. I followed, realizing Sweetpea really was running away from her. Checked Sweetpea’s 2nd floor bedroom, with Nana RIGHT behind me - not there. Then I remembered Sweetpea had told me she made a new hiding place in the attic. Up we went, Nana right behind, and to the attic closet, the light tellingly on, and I calmly said, "Poppa is in the car, and its wrong to make him wait. "Her voice came from the back of the closet and I persuaded her to come out. Then Nana grabbed her, and dragged her screaming down the hall to the to top of the stair, man-handling her roughly onto her lap, Sweetpea fought with all her strength and screamed heart-breakingly, “I don’t want to go!” and “I want to be alone!”.

I have actually seen this before! Lots. But its been about 6 months (we have her here weekly, at least, and most often Nana and Poppa pick her up here). In fact MOST times they came here to get Sweetpea, she has fought and begged not to go - just not in recent months, so. yesterday took me by surprise. However, yesterday was the only day I mentioned that she would be seeing Rick.

When Sweetpea is fighting about going with them, crying pitifully that she wants to stay “Just this once! Just this once!”, Its always Nana losing patience immediately and me making excuses for Sweetpea’s tantrums and Nana’s anger: “Sweetpea really needs a nap.” and me trying to talk Sweetpea into calmness, offering to softly put on her shoes rather than Nana angrily jamming them on.

So now with Nana strong-arming Sweetpea at the top of the attic stairs, I said, “Please let me carry her down to the car” and Nana handed her over, Sweetpea got calmer but wailed all the way, “I don’t want to go!” and “I want to be alone!” and it was awful all the way.

I called Mommy (finishing her work, soon to leave to join them), and she said its because we mentioned Rick. She said we should not mention that she will see Rick because that’s when she falls apart. She said, yes, Sweetpea* will *say “I miss Daddy” and “I wish I could be alone with daddy!” - especially that last, which has been coached to her IMO - but that’s only when she knows she is not going to see him. But when she is going to see him, its always a huge emotional screaming scene! Her Mom thinks I should not tell her the plan! I don’t; think that’s right.

She asked me to write it out in email in case it helps the court case. So I wrote a long one, telling of the stuff I told here as well, the concerns about molestation, and sent it to her and a copy to her mother (Grandmas) and called Grandma to let her know it was coming.

After I wrote all that I realized there is some things I* can* control, and I will. One is I will not call Rick her “dad” anymore. I will call Rick Rick when he must be mentioned to Sweetpea, or her Mom, and Sweetpea will know who I am referring to.

And I realized that Nana woman needs boundaries, and I am going to make them. Sweetpea will never be manhandled in this house! I noticed early on that Nana strides right in my house most of the time without knocking. Well, I will lock the door when she comes, and if I decide to invite her in, I will tell her where to sit and she is not to follow me upstairs. Or, next time she comes in I will ask her to knock and wait for us to answer the door. I will never let her be rough with Sweetpea in front of me again. I realize I dropped the ball on that. I will never make excuses for Sweetpea’s tantrums, either. Sweetpea has a reason. And its Nana! Its the ONLY time she tantrums!

[continued]

 

[Eliza10]

Pt. 3 of 3

I called her Mom today and asked how the dinner went. So much wrong! Her Mom said that Rick was FINE, it was Nana who was the problem. Hmm. What she told made me see that is an unstable family (Poppa is stable and kind, but he does not intervene with Nana’s aggressions). Mom arrived last as usual. The supervised visitation was not being supervised.* Rick was outside alone with Sweetpea* and Nana and Poppa were indoors. Mommy joined them and Nana ran out apologizing and saying it was only for a minute they were alone and Mommy (unfortunately, IMO) said “Its okay”. In Mommy’s opinion, it is. I think not. They stayed, the three, until Nana called Mommy in, and Mommy, not wanting to leave Sweetpea there alone, and not wanting to say as much to Sweetpea, said, “Sweetpea, come with me, you have to wash your hands”. The two went in, and Nana stopped them in the door, insisting Sweetpea could stay out side. Mommy had to really, really press it, and Nana gave in angrily. (I am so infuriated that Nana thinks she dictate to Mommy what to do with her own daughter! And that Mommy is not making a stronger boundary to that!).

When they all came in for pizza, Rick poured Mommy and ice tea and Nana reached over and dumped it out. Rick poured another and Nana grabbed it and dumped another. Apparently it was becaseu Mommy had not named which tea she wanted first. So she did, Rick poured a third, and Nana let it go and acted like nothing strange had happened. Mommy said,* “Rick and I actually BONDED over this because we kept looking at each other because Nana was being so unreasonable!”* Mommy thought that was nice; I did NOT, as I will explain later. At the end of the meal Mommy gave her daughter with a small pack of gum candies and Sweetpea proceeded to share them with everyone but Nana. Nana got angry at Sweetpea and lectured her in anger for because it was “not nice” to not share with her, too. Sweetpea said, “Its because you were not being nice to my mother.”

This story concerns me because:

1. Nana is nuts, aggressive, and manipulating.
2. That Rick sees power plays and makes alliances is not a comfort to me. He can do the same with Sweetpea when he sees Nana be mean to her, and she is mean when she feels Sweetpea does not give her the love and esteem she is OWED - when this happens Rick will give looks to Sweetpea, like, “Isn’t she mean? Come to me; I’m your friend, we can go be alone together” - which Nana lets happen on these “supervised” visits. He is an OPPORTUNIST and manipulator in that way. Its who he is.

I am readign about this because I see its called “grooming” that molesters do to gain trust of their victims. Let me add that Rick was molested by a babysitter over “a long period of time” - Nana and Poppa let this slip, when they were excusing one of his drunken rages once, or why he is an addict. But he trouble is, ALL child molesters were molested themselves as children.

To keep this in perspective, Rick’s visitations are currently limited to that weekly dinner. I have yet to talk to Grandma, who is busy homeschooling the older daughter and preparing for a visit any day from an oversees family member. I may have to be patient and talk with her when that’s over.

Sweetpea is coming tomorrow night for overnight and will be picked up by Nana and Poppa on Saturday. Yes, another pick-up. And this is NOT a court-ordered visitation! I told her Mom and Grandma in that email that my opinion is that Sweetpea should be allowed to chose if she wants to go or not. That we are happy to have her hear as much as needed. That Sweetpea woudl eventually choose to see them, when she is ready. But as I said, I have not heard Grandma’s opinion. In my call to Mommy today, I reminded her and she said “no” to that. This is where her unseasonable fears get in the way, IMO, and only Grandma’s wisdom will help with that. And if they both won’t see, I have to let it go, I guess. Sweetpea’s Mom is afraid of Nana maybe suing her for custody, because even though Nana does not have a lot of money, Nana’s siblings have “million dollar houses with pools” and they all love Sweetpea… she feels she must appease them to avoid the frightening possibility of custody suit. But this fear is unlikely to happen. Our state’s visitation for grandparents is one day a month. Which under current circumstances seems like plenty to me!

So this is where i am now. Stuck. In the end maybe all i can do is pray, and of course, as Legend says, just be there for her; be the stable person. I am researching articles on molester’s “grooming”: manipulations and hopefully I can make a good case on that for Mom and Grandma and link a good article that is appropriate and hopefully they will be inspired to take this concern to a child professional who knows how to get to the root of Sweetpea’s fears non-invasively. Like art or play therapy.

Oh, by the way, I found this great article on not teaching “stranger-danger” to your child, but instead, teaching them about “tricky people”. Great article! [Great talk for Moms on “tricky people” http://www.checklistmommy.com/2012/02/09/tricky-people-are-the-new-strangers/#sthash.404cCXr1.dpbs](Great talk for Moms on “tricky people” http://www.checklistmommy.com/2012/02/09/tricky-people-are-the-new-strangers/#sthash.404cCXr1.dpbs)

 

[sarah_j]

I think that “Mom” may be in recovery, but she is still thinking
like an addict, making excuses for Rick and for her own behavior as well.
It may be convenient for her to let Nana babysit her daughter, but
look at the situation in which she is leaving the child !
Mom’s number one concern should be shielding her 5 yr. old from her father.
He is a destructive force in Sweetpea’s life and the child knows it.
They ALL know it, but don’t want to admit it.
Nana’s inability/unwillingness to see her son as he is makes her
unsuitable as a babysitter for Sweetpea, IMO.

It is scarring the child to know that her father is messed up, but to
have all the adults in her life denying this to her. In effect, they are “gaslighting”
the child. Of course, she doesn’t want to visit her Dad! She goes there and
has to pretend, along with the others in the house, that her father is normal.
That kind of farce is enough to drive anyone crazy, much less a 5 yr. old
who looks to adults for protection and validation.
Even if he isn’t molesting her, she is being damaged by the whole situation.
Happy children don’t hide in closets and have to be dragged screaming to the
car to go visit their Dads.

I would talk to a child advocate about your concerns for Sweetpea.
You may not have any legal standing, but the courts do. There is probably
a social worker who is attached to the family court. Find out who that is
and talk to her/him.
Judging from all you’ve said, I don’t see anyone in that situation who is going
to step up and protect the child. Nana, the Mom and the Dad are all part of
the problem. They are all manipulators.
It’s up to you to protect that child.