The robber council and the importance of the papacy

[Hasire]

I did read that link. It was quite long but not convincing. Actually, haven’t you divided the church into thousands of independently run diocese. The universal church is timeless and is not limited by diocesan boarders. It has one head, Jesus, and one vicar, currently Pope Benedict XVI. Just as it had one vicar at its inception: Peter.

Not really, they are not divided because the churches are in communion, the same way the priest breaks the Eucharist, there are two pieces and then several pieces, but each piece is fully Christ no matter how small it is. You see it that way because you are still looking at it with Roman Catholic eyes

The bishops are successors to the Apostles. All of the Apostles named bishops.

In a sense, yes. So?

 

[bobbyhillisabro]

It seems to me that all the " unsolveable" theological issues can indeed be solved. If the Father and the son are indeed “one” as Jesus claimed, why is it so hard to understand that the Holy Spirit proceeds from that “one” creating the three persons in One God?

And as for Papal leadership, the Orthodox will be the first to agree that the Pope is first among equals. if you think about that, what does first among equals really mean. You are either first or you are the same. I know that the Patriarchs like to have autonomy, but they claim primacy over those below them. How is that consistent. For unity to work, someone has to be in charge. That is the pope.

And notice at Chalcedon, the council wrote to the Pope at the conclusion, asking for his approval. They didn’t do that with any of the other bishops not in attendance. That should tell you something.

The bigger impediment is probably

The Filioque was a language barrier issue for the most part. Check out this link its a great defense for catholics on the issue. The Holy Spirit originates from The Father and The Son sends it, but language barriers were a huge factor in the issue.

catholic-legate.com/apologetics/thechurch/articles/filioque.aspx

 

[PIERRE4]

Short Answer: The Rock is Peter’s confession, Peter becomes Peter because of the confession, and everyone who also believes in the confession is a rock (i.e. The Shepard of Hermas). Some Fathers say that the Rock is Jesus Christ, and by accepting Him, we become rocks.
In our ecclesiology, the would be the Bishop who is successor of Peter. Therefore all Bishops sit in “Peter’s Chair/Cathedra” (as St. Cyprian said). So, the “Local” Church, the diocese, is the Catholic Church in it’s fullness. As St. Ignatius said: “Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”
All Bishops are equal in power because all are Peter.
That would mean that ranks such as Metropolitan, Archbishop, Catholicos, Patriarch and Pope are artificial and human-created ranks that work for the better administration of the Church.

Long Answer: orthodoxanswers.org/media/documents/ecclesiology.pdf

Well. Petrine passages from the Rock to ‘Tend my Sheep’ to the giving of the keys etc. These are specific to Peter and no other apostle.

 

[Trebor135]

Well. Petrine passages from the Rock to ‘Tend my Sheep’ to the giving of the keys etc. These are specific to Peter and no other apostle.

All apostolic Christians deny sola scriptura. So, for the kind of arguments you bring forward to persuade Eastern Orthodox, passages from the Tradition have to be cited as well.

PS: I’d be interested to hear your comments on my post #29 on page #2 of this thread.

 

[PIERRE4]

All apostolic Christians deny sola scriptura. So, for the kind of arguments you bring forward to persuade Eastern Orthodox, passages from the Tradition have to be cited as well.

PS: I’d be interested to hear your comments on my post #29 on page #2 of this thread.

I’d say that I can agree with most of your arguments.

But let us look at the RC position vis-a-vis the Eastern Orthodox Church that the latter was never in error. How are we to interpret such RC Theological generosity? On the other hand, the Filioque is not or should not be that big an obstacle as it can be Biblical too (personal opinion). Now let us look at the Orthodox formula of ‘Bishop of Rome being First among equals with the Primus Inter Pares’ and I wonder if we are very far off.
Let us pray because we must strive to achieve unity irrespective of whether the Pope’s teachings are infallible in matters of Dogma or not (our Patriarchs are infallible too in matters of Dogma). I greatly enjoyed hearing that Patriarch Bartholomew of Phanar-Constantinople went to Rome today (a first since the great schism of 1054).