The Rockin' Mass

[Chris-WA]

I know similar threads have been posted before, but here it goes anyway. My parish has a music group at mass that I would describe as part hippie/part pop in its musical style. The instruments include a full drum set and an electric bass guitar. I’m 33 and I love rock and roll, but not at mass. They mostly stick to the songs found in the music issue of the missal. I’m no music genius, but I’m pretty sure not one of those songs were ever meant to be accompanied by drums and electric bass guitar. One of the really strange things they do is pass out noise makers for the kids to shake during certain songs. It’s awful. The end product is that we have music that is more of a performance and a distraction that a background aid to the holy mass. What ever happened to reverent music at mass, and what can I do to change it?

 

[4_marks]

It may be appropriate for a Life Teen Mass or a Charismatic Renewal Mass, but I can understand how it could be distracting if this style was the norm for liturgical music at your parish. Have you shared your concerns with the Pastor?

It almost sounds like your Church may be influenced by Evangelical Protestant trends like the Purpose-Driven Life and the Willow Creek, Saddleback and Vineyard movements. The intent behind these is to make church more relevant to the average person, but in practice, appear to replace worship with entertainment.

 

[Chris-WA]

4 marks:

It may be appropriate for a Life Teen Mass or a Charismatic Renewal Mass, but I can understand how it could be distracting if this style was the norm for liturgical music at your parish. Have you shared your concerns with the Pastor?

It almost sounds like your Church may be influenced by Evangelical Protestant trends like the Purpose-Driven Life and the Willow Creek, Saddleback and Vineyard movements. The intent behind these is to make church more relevant to the average person, but in practice, appear to replace worship with entertainment.

I don’t think it’s influenced by any group in particular. I just think this is the kind of music the group likes and wants to play.

This is our normal mass. We don’t have a Life Teen or Charismatic Renewal mass. Personally, I don’t see how it’s appropriate for any mass. Why we need special masses for certain groups eludes me. If people are bored with the regular thing, then it’s because they are attending for the wrong reason.

Every priest thus far has publicly praised the group for their work during mass. But I felt very uncomfortable with much of the music. It didn’t feel sacred. It was loud and intrusive, almost obnoxious. Nothing holy or reverent about it. Even my 9 year old son looked up at me and asked, “Dad, why are they playing jazz today?” Even he recognizes the inappropriateness of this during mass.

 

[misericordie]

Chris-WA:

I know similar threads have been posted before, but here it goes anyway. My parish has a music group at mass that I would describe as part hippie/part pop in its musical style. The instruments include a full drum set and an electric bass guitar. I’m 33 and I love rock and roll, but not at mass. They mostly stick to the songs found in the music issue of the missal. I’m no music genius, but I’m pretty sure not one of those songs were ever meant to be accompanied by drums and electric bass guitar. One of the really strange things they do is pass out noise makers for the kids to shake during certain songs. It’s awful. The end product is that we have music that is more of a performance and a distraction that a background aid to the holy mass. What ever happened to reverent music at mass, and what can I do to change it?

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_1_110.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_1_119.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_1_113.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_5_137.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_5_137.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_5_137.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_5_137.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_2_3.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_1_109.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_1_109.gif

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

Chris-WA:

I know similar threads have been posted before, but here it goes anyway. My parish has a music group at mass that I would describe as part hippie/part pop in its musical style. The instruments include a full drum set and an electric bass guitar. I’m 33 and I love rock and roll, but not at mass. They mostly stick to the songs found in the music issue of the missal. I’m no music genius, but I’m pretty sure not one of those songs were ever meant to be accompanied by drums and electric bass guitar. One of the really strange things they do is pass out noise makers for the kids to shake during certain songs. It’s awful. The end product is that we have music that is more of a performance and a distraction that a background aid to the holy mass. What ever happened to reverent music at mass, and what can I do to change it?

Have you not read the Psalms?
Psalm 150:
1 1 Hallelujah! 2 Praise God in his holy sanctuary; give praise in the mighty dome of heaven. 2 Give praise for his mighty deeds, praise him for his great majesty. **3 ****Give praise with blasts upon the horn, praise him with harp and lyre. ****4 ****Give praise with tambourines and dance, praise him with flutes and strings. ****5 ****Give praise with crashing cymbals, praise him with sounding cymbals. ****6 ****Let everything that has breath give praise to the LORD! Hallelujah! ******
The ancient hymns & songs are just as important & essential to worship as ever before, but lets not allow our personal dislikes keep others from using the talents & gifts God has given them.

I’ll agree that excessive rock (metal, grunge) has no place in worship, but if the Holy Spirit is working through the music leaders as He should then there should be no need for alarm or distraction.

I was a music director in my parish for well over 10 years & I found that I had to “play to the crowd” for lack of a better term. The older memebers of our parish loved the older hymns & soft & mellow guitar playing where the youth seemed to have their spirits lifted when the music was more up-beat & singable, as is the jod of a choir - get the people singing.

If the music is distracting to other as well as yourself then this is cause to have a talk with your pastor, but remember the true focuc of our worship is the Lord, in His Word & in His Blessed Sacrament.

 

[John_of_Woking]

Dj Roy Albert:

Have you not read the Psalms?
Psalm 150:
1 1 Hallelujah! 2 Praise God in his holy sanctuary; give praise in the mighty dome of heaven. 2 Give praise for his mighty deeds, praise him for his great majesty. **3 ****Give praise with blasts upon the horn, praise him with harp and lyre. ****4 ****Give praise with tambourines and dance, praise him with flutes and strings. ****5 ****Give praise with crashing cymbals, praise him with sounding cymbals. ****6 ****Let everything that has breath give praise to the LORD! Hallelujah! ******
The ancient hymns & songs are just as important & essential to worship as ever before, but lets not allow our personal dislikes keep others from using the talents & gifts God has given them.

I’ll agree that excessive rock (metal, grunge) has no place in worship, but if the Holy Spirit is working through the music leaders as He should then there should be no need for alarm or distraction.

I was a music director in my parish for well over 10 years & I found that I had to “play to the crowd” for lack of a better term. The older memebers of our parish loved the older hymns & soft & mellow guitar playing where the youth seemed to have their spirits lifted when the music was more up-beat & singable, as is the jod of a choir - get the people singing.

If the music is distracting to other as well as yourself then this is cause to have a talk with your pastor, but remember the true focuc of our worship is the Lord, in His Word & in His Blessed Sacrament.

Bring back Gregorian chant, and a bit of a reverence for the Mass. Maybe the modern music could be used in ‘Praise and Worship’ sessions instead and then all will be happy

 

[truthbetold]

Growing up I remember an occassional Polka mass.

There is a time and place for everything. I find the extra instruments are a distraction. The louder music during mass just does not seem respectful, encourage a sense of awe in the sacrament or seem holy.

Yes, let’s joyfully raise our voices and hearts in song. Let’s not “entertain” the “masses”.

 

[tom.wineman]

Its a MOD, MOD WORLD

Sacred and holy are archaic words.

What you witnessed is a Barney Mass.

 

[Chris-WA]

Dj Roy Albert:

Have you not read the Psalms?
Psalm 150:
1 1 Hallelujah! 2 Praise God in his holy sanctuary; give praise in the mighty dome of heaven. 2 Give praise for his mighty deeds, praise him for his great majesty. **3 ****Give praise with blasts upon the horn, praise him with harp and lyre. ****4 ****Give praise with tambourines and dance, praise him with flutes and strings. ****5 ****Give praise with crashing cymbals, praise him with sounding cymbals. ****6 ****Let everything that has breath give praise to the LORD! Hallelujah! **
The ancient hymns & songs are just as important & essential to worship as ever before, but lets not allow our personal dislikes keep others from using the talents & gifts God has given them.

I’ll agree that excessive rock (metal, grunge) has no place in worship, but if the Holy Spirit is working through the music leaders as He should then there should be no need for alarm or distraction.

I’ve heard this before, but I question its logic. I think there is a huge difference between the kind of music described in the Psalms you quoted and the modern irreverent music we get at mass. Also, I don’t think we should accept it just because people have the talent for it. If they would like to put on a show outside of mass, I would be happy to go. But let’s respect the mass in all its holiness and keep the music as a background aid to worship, not as an inadvertent centerpiece distracting from why we are really there. I think a lot of music directors seem to forget that.

Keep in mind that this Psalm was written long before the first mass, so I don’t think it should be taken as necessarily applying to the mass itself.

 

[mgy100]

often I bring my les paul, double stack tube amp to mass, crank out a great solo in the tune of mass, old people can hear it, they dance and shake, it’s great…

yeah right.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

John of Woking:

Bring back Gregorian chant, and a bit of a reverence for the Mass. Maybe the modern music could be used in ‘Praise and Worship’ sessions instead and then all will be happy

??? I thought that the Holy Mass was “Praise & Worship”???

As beautiful as Gegorian chant may be, it is not right to have it in every mass, forcing others to experience the mass as only a few would have it. We must be all things to all men, not ultra-conservative to all men.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

Chris-WA:

I’ve heard this before, but I question its logic. I think there is a huge difference between the kind of music described in the Psalms you quoted and the modern irreverent music we get at mass. Also, I don’t think we should accept it just because people have the talent for it. If they would like to put on a show outside of mass, I would be happy to go. But let’s respect the mass in all its holiness and keep the music as a background aid to worship, not as an inadvertent centerpiece distracting from why we are really there. I think a lot of music directors seem to forget that.

Keep in mind that this Psalm was written long before the first mass, so I don’t think it should be taken as necessarily applying to the mass itself.

What you consider “irreverent”, others may find uplifting & motivating. If the music is inapproriate then again your pastor needs to take charge & put a stop to it, but to think that music in Mass is a mere “background aid”, then this is a big problem. The music in worship is for EVERYONE to join in and worship, not just a select few or the choir only. It seems that if the music is a distraction to you, then maybe you should seek to attend mass at a different time.

Why are we really there anyway? To feel all warm & fuzzy, or sit in our pews in our own personal shell, all alone with Jesus? The Holy Mass is a foretaste of what is to come, a preview of Heaven. I don’t know about you, but my understanding of Heaven as Jesus explained in the Scriptures is not an eternity of sitting on clouds staring at God. Jesus chose to give us the Blessed Sacrament in a setting of a celebration. Last time I looked a celebration should at least be a joyous occasion.

Accepting the gifts God has given others in mentioned by the our chuch leaders in the the Second Vatican Council:
*CHAPTER I *

*THE VOCATION OF THE LAITY TO THE APOSTOLATE *

2. The Church was founded for the purpose of spreading the kingdom of Christ throughout the earth for the glory of God the Father, to enable all men to share in His saving redemption,(1) and that through them the whole world might enter into a relationship with Christ. All activity of the Mystical Body directed to the attainment of this goal is called the apostolate, which the Church carries on in various ways through all her members. For the Christian vocation by its very nature is also a vocation to the apostolate. No part of the structure of a living body is merely passive but has a share in the functions as well as life of the body: so, too, in the body of Christ, which is the Church, “the whole body . . . in keeping with the proper activity of each part, derives its increase from its own internal development” (Eph. 4:16).

Indeed, the organic union in this body and the structure of the members are so compact that the member who fails to make his proper contribution to the development of the Church must be said to be useful neither to the Church nor to himself.

In the Church there is a diversity of ministry but a oneness of mission. Christ conferred on the Apostles and their successors the duty of teaching, sanctifying, and ruling in His name and power. But the laity likewise share in the priestly, prophetic, and royal office of Christ and therefore have their own share in the mission of the whole people of God in the Church and in the world.

DECREE ON THE APOSTOLATE OF THE LAITY
APOSTOLICAM ACTUOSITATEM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS,
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 18, 1965

Yes, the Psalms were written before Christs last supper, when he gave us his Body & Blood, but it was written centuries after the tradition of the Passover, the precursor to the celebration of the Holy Mass.

If you allow your personal likes or dislikes to dictate how you worship & how you grow spiritually, then your faith may remain stagnant.

 

[tom.wineman]

Dj Roy Albert:

??? I thought that the Holy Mass was “Praise & Worship”???

As beautiful as Gegorian chant may be, it is not right to have it in every mass, forcing others to experience the mass as only a few would have it. We must be all things to all men, not ultra-conservative to all men.

??? Is that one of those rhetorical Questions ???

**Have you read the Pope’s **Ecclesia de Eucharistia ?

newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02ee.htm

 

[Bobby_Jim]

Chris-WA:

I know similar threads have been posted before, but here it goes anyway. My parish has a music group at mass that I would describe as part hippie/part pop in its musical style. The instruments include a full drum set and an electric bass guitar. I’m 33 and I love rock and roll, but not at mass. They mostly stick to the songs found in the music issue of the missal. I’m no music genius, but I’m pretty sure not one of those songs were ever meant to be accompanied by drums and electric bass guitar. One of the really strange things they do is pass out noise makers for the kids to shake during certain songs. It’s awful. The end product is that we have music that is more of a performance and a distraction that a background aid to the holy mass. What ever happened to reverent music at mass, and what can I do to change it?

I don’t think the electric bass is a problem, unless it’s played badly. Played well, it can help to fill out the sound, especially with a piano as the main accompaniment. Played badly, it’s really obnoxious. Similar to the organ. We would all agree that it’s a fine instrument for Mass. But it sounds quite bad at Mass if the organist plays like it’s a jazz concert or a baseball game, or if the organist is a hack and doesn’t know what he/she is doing (similar to a bass player I occasionally hear at my church).

Now here’s a question… would you object to a traditional bass played with a bow? And then what if they stuck a little electronic gizmo inside to pick up and amplify the vibrations so the whole church could hear? And then what if the strings were plucked rather than bowed? And then what if you reformat the instrument so it has a much smaller solid body (to reduce feedback effects when amplified), electric pickups below the strings, and a fretted neck like a guitar, making it more portable, and easier for guitar players to pick up and learn? At what point does this instrument become inappropriate for use in Mass?

Besides, it could be worse - your “hymns” could include things like “In the Garden of Eden” by I. Ron Butterfly

 

[LarryM]

Bobby Jim:

I don’t think the electric bass is a problem, unless it’s played badly. Played well, it can help to fill out the sound, especially with a piano as the main accompaniment. Played badly, it’s really obnoxious.

Here is an interesting article on the use of bass in Catholic churches from a 2001 issue of Pastoral Music, the publication of The National Association of Pastoral Musicians
customized-applications.com/bassline/images/pmbassarticle.pdf

LarryM

 

[Bobby_Jim]

LarryM:

Here is an interesting article on the use of bass in Catholic churches from a 2001 issue of Pastoral Music, the publication of The National Association of Pastoral Musicians
customized-applications.com/bassline/images/pmbassarticle.pdf

LarryM

Thanks, that was very interesting indeed. I have to say, some of the very nicest liturgical music I have heard has been piano with acoustic bass or cello, adding depth to the harmonies.

I do agree with the original poster in that using bass and drums to add a “rhythm section” to the liturgical music can definitely be distracting. I’ve heard it done better in some places than in others. My church does have this one (electric) bass player who thinks he’s really great, but he generally just plays the root note of whatever chord is written for the guitar accompaniment, on each and every beat, which really adds nothing.

As for drums & percussion, I’ve heard it used tastefully (although I still find it distracting), with either a bongo drum (played with the hand), or one small drum played with brushes, plus a cymbal. I’ve been to churches where they have the whole drum kit with the bass drum and all, where the drummer plays the rock ‘n’ roll beat. That gives it a much more “showy” feel. That, and guitar players being “moved by the Spirit” to play little riffs in between verses. If this is what the original poster is experiencing, then I do sympathize!

 

[Chris-WA]

Bobby Jim:

As for drums & percussion, I’ve heard it used tastefully (although I still find it distracting), with either a bongo drum (played with the hand), or one small drum played with brushes, plus a cymbal. I’ve been to churches where they have the whole drum kit with the bass drum and all, where the drummer plays the rock ‘n’ roll beat. That gives it a much more “showy” feel. That, and guitar players being “moved by the Spirit” to play little riffs in between verses. If this is what the original poster is experiencing, then I do sympathize!

That’s exactly what I was talking about. Every song they play has the rock-and-roll beat added to it, including the Alleluia, the Responsorial Psalm, and the Gloria. I’ve heard the group play masses with the drum guy absent. They sound 10 times better and 10 times more appropriate for mass. I have a feeling that if I mentioned something they would take it the wrong way.

 

[Chris-WA]

Bobby Jim:

I don’t think the electric bass is a problem, unless it’s played badly. Played well, it can help to fill out the sound, especially with a piano as the main accompaniment. Played badly, it’s really obnoxious. Similar to the organ. We would all agree that it’s a fine instrument for Mass. But it sounds quite bad at Mass if the organist plays like it’s a jazz concert or a baseball game, or if the organist is a hack and doesn’t know what he/she is doing (similar to a bass player I occasionally hear at my church).

Now here’s a question… would you object to a traditional bass played with a bow? And then what if they stuck a little electronic gizmo inside to pick up and amplify the vibrations so the whole church could hear? And then what if the strings were plucked rather than bowed? And then what if you reformat the instrument so it has a much smaller solid body (to reduce feedback effects when amplified), electric pickups below the strings, and a fretted neck like a guitar, making it more portable, and easier for guitar players to pick up and learn? At what point does this instrument become inappropriate for use in Mass?

Besides, it could be worse - your “hymns” could include things like “In the Garden of Eden” by I. Ron Butterfly

I think any time you electrify an instrument, it starts to sound like something out of a rock song instead of a hymn. Microphones are alright to increase the volume and spread the sound, but the electric pickup ruins it. Mind you, I’m no musician. I’m merely pointing out what this sounds like to me as a member of the congregation. If the electric bass is so easy to screw up, why have it at all? The hymns certainly weren’t written with it in mind.

 

[Chris-WA]

Dj Roy Albert:

What you consider “irreverent”, others may find uplifting & motivating. If the music is inapproriate then again your pastor needs to take charge & put a stop to it, but to think that music in Mass is a mere “background aid”, then this is a big problem.

Actually the big problem is when the music takes over and focuses the faithful on the choir/music group instead of on the eucharist. Liturgical music is meant to be an aid, not a performance. I think this line is often crossed. When I say “background aid” I don’t mean that we should be sitting there staring at the ceiling. Of course we all should sing along and participate. But if we’re walking out of mass talking about how great the music was, then we missed the real purpose of being there. Take a look at this letter on the subject. I think it explains much better what I’m trying to get across:

www.ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/REFLECT.TXT

 

[Ecce_Homo]

??? I thought that the Holy Mass was “Praise & Worship”???

As beautiful as Gegorian chant may be, it is not right to have it in every mass, forcing others to experience the mass as only a few would have it. We must be all things to all men, not ultra-conservative to all men.

As you will read in other threads dealing with liturgical music, the Popes have encouraged Gregorian Chant above all other forms of liturgical music. There is nothing wrong with having it in every Mass.

If you are going to talk about “forcing others to experience the mass only a few would have it”, then what of the bishops who have practically done away with Gregorian Chant with no regard to preference of the laity? One of the great ironies of Vatican II is that while it was touted to give the laity a voice and get them more involved, the bishops’ application of the council has stifled the voices of the laity who disagree with the bishops’ liturgial innovations.