The role of the Church

[agbasinger]

I was having a discussion with a non-Catholic friend about the role of the Church. Would it be fair to say that one of the roles of the Church is to “fill in the gaps” of scripture? This would include areas where scripture is silent or simply glossed over a subject where a newly catachized person may be clueless.

 

[Godfollower]

No, it’s the other way around: passing on the Scriptures is one of the ways the Church brings the Faith to everyone it can.

When Jesus founded the Church, the only Scriptures around were the 46 books of what we now call the Old Testament. Acting under the influence of the Holy Spirit, the Church produced 27 more books (now called the New Testament) to help guide the fledgling Christian communities springing up in the wake of the Apostles. Eventually the Church gathered all 73 books together and published them in the form of a book that we now call the Bible.

But that’s only one of the ways the Church passes on the Faith. Other ways include the provision of the priesthood to help guide the faithful; the provision of the Magisterium to preserve the Church’s teachings; the passing on of the Deposit of Faith to new generations; and so on.

Your friend’s assumption that it all begins with Scripture (and the Church just fills in the gaps) is erroneous. The Christian communities of Corinth, Thessalonica, Ephesus, etc. did not have the Bible available to them in the years following Jesus’ death; the New Testament passages hadn’t been written yet!

The Scriptures are part of the Tradition of the Faith passed on by the Church throughout the ages. They are very important, of course, but they are not the be-all and end-all of faith, as your friend’s discussion with you seems to suggest.

 

[agbasinger]

Would you say that the main purpose of the Church is to instruct and serve God’s people?

 

[Godfollower]

Would you say that the main purpose of the Church is to instruct and serve God’s people?

I suppose you could put it that way. The primary purpose of God’s Church is to help everyone it can on the road to salvation. So instructing and serving God’s people would be part of that.

But, remember, “God’s people” does not mean only members of His Church. The Church is primarily a missionary organization, sent by Christ to make disciples of all nations. Accordingly, every human being is one of God’s people. And part of the Church’s mission is to instruct and serve them.

 

[yearofthelord]

Many non-Catholic Christians respond well to a quote from the Bible. Here is one I have used:

1 Timothy 3:15

“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth”

 

[agbasinger]

Many non-Catholic Christians respond well to a quote from the Bible. Here is one I have used:

1 Timothy 3:15

“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth”

This looks great. I will commit this one to memory.

 

[Godfollower]

yearofthelord;5131329:

Many non-Catholic Christians respond well to a quote from the Bible. Here is one I have used:

1 Timothy 3:15

“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth”

This looks great. I will commit this one to memory.

Just so you know, the typical Protestant response to this statement is something to the effect of “When the Bible talks about the church of God, it just means some mystical everyone-one-who-believes-in-Jesus-makes-up-the-church-of-God-and-we-all-get-to-decide-for-ourselves-on-what-God’s-word-really-means entity that may or may not be organized, may or may not accept everything taught by the Apostles, and certainly isn’t the organization founded by Jesus with the original Apostles.”

 

[agbasinger]

How would you appraoch that statement?

 

[Godfollower]

How would you approach that statement?

God established the Levitical priesthood during the times of the Old Testament. The priests and scribes were charged with leading the people in accordance with God’s commands.

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not.

Matthew 23:1-3.

Also, the Levitical priests’ charge was to be taken away from them and given to others.

Hear ye another parable. There was a man an householder, who planted a vineyard, and made a hedge round about it, and dug in it a press, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen; and went into a strange country. And when the time of the fruits drew nigh, he sent his servants to the husbandmen that they might receive the fruits thereof. And the husbandmen laying hands on his servants, beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Again he sent other servants more than the former; and they did to them in like manner. And last of all he sent to them his son, saying: They will reverence my son. But the husbandmen seeing the son, said among themselves: This is the heir: come, let us kill him, and we shall have his inheritance. And taking him, they cast him forth out of the vineyard, and killed him. When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do to those husbandmen?

They say to him: He will bring those evil men to an evil end; and will let out his vineyard to other husbandmen, that shall render him the fruit in due season. Jesus saith to them: Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? By the Lord this has been done; and it is wonderful in our eyes. Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it shall grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they knew that he spoke of them.

Matthew 21:33-45.

We also know that Jesus founded a church on Peter:

Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Matthew 16:16-19.

Furthermore, the Apostles were actually chosen by Jesus to spread His Word:

You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go, and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:16.

It is also clear that the Church is an institution with offices to be filled:

In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said: (now the number of persons together was about an hundred and twenty):

Men, brethren, the scripture must needs be fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who was the leader of them that apprehended Jesus: Who was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged, burst asunder in the midst: and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem: so that the same field was called in their tongue, Haceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. For it is written in the book of Psalms: Let their habitation become desolate, and let there be none to dwell therein. And his bishopric let another take.

Wherefore of these men who have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, until the day wherein he was taken up from us, one of these must be made a witness with us of his resurrection. And they appointed two, Joseph, called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And praying, they said: Thou, Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, To take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas hath by transgression fallen, that he might go to his own place.

And they gave them lots, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Acts of the Apostles 1:15-26.

But the leadership of the Church was not limited to those who walked with the Lord. 1 Corinthians 9:1-2, 15:9, 1 Timothy 2:7, 2 Timothy 1:1, 1:11, Galatians 1:1, Romans 11:13, Titus 1:1 (Paul was also an Apostle). Indeed, a new priesthood was explicitly established:

Neglect not the grace that is in thee, which was given thee by prophesy, with imposition of the hands of the priesthood.

1 Timothy 4:14.

There were even requirements for who could hold public offices in the Church. See 1 Timothy 3:1-13. And they really did go around appointing priests and bishops:

And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and to Antioch: Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith: and that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God. And when they had ordained to them priests in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, in whom they believed.

Acts of the Apostles 14:20-22.

For this cause I left thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and shouldest ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee: If any be without crime, the husband of one wife, having faithful children, not accused of riot, or unruly. For a bishop must be without crime, as the steward of God: not proud, not subject to anger, not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre: But given to hospitality, gentle, sober, just, holy, continent: Embracing that faithful word which is according to doctrine, that he may be able to exhort in sound doctrine, and to convince the gainsayers.

Titus 1:5-9.

In short: Jesus established an actual Church, with a hierarchy who had the power to appoint successors, and charged it with preserving and spreading His Word to all the nations.

We’re still here.

 

[rwoehmke]

Seems like the missing role in this discussion which has cited leadership and instruction leaves out the very important role of the Church’s administration of the Sacraments which mediates God’s graces to all its “members” as well as to thos who at a distance share in some aspects of the Catholic Faith in some manner or extent injcluding Jews and Muslims. We are not “saved” by leadership and instruction, but by God’s grace poured out from Jesus through His Church.

 

[agbasinger]

Godfollower, that was an excellent argument.

 

[Godfollower]

Awwww . . . . :blushing: