The role of the priest vs Protestant Pastor

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JonNC said:
Such a pleasant reply.

Thanks,
Jon
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Yeah. I cannot any way be asked to accept or believe which is false. This is against what God teaches. I cannot believe which is not true.

Enemies comes in all sizes and shapes. I know you are a nice guy and apparently many like you here including me. But I will not bow to what is false because of you.

You and all those outside the CC has been called into the Church. you all are not listen. you will be loved in teh Church. what is the problem. no Catholics are going to take pride on such action but give glory to God. there is nothing to be ashamed of. it will be a day of glory the day all come and abide the CC teachings which are the teachings of God.
 
JonNC said:
Such a pleasant reply.

Thanks,
Jon
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Plus, we are not people who follow teachings of martin luther, we accept only what Jesus and the Apostles tought in His Church. We don’t follow those who rebelled against the Church. the Apostles warned the leaders of the Church about those who leaves the Church and teach falsehood and many follow them. we must take heed and hold on to the Ark of Noah, the Church, even when it looks like is sinking like right now. The Saints died for this holy Faith, we honor them by doing the same.
 
wisdomseeker said:
Yeah. I cannot any way be asked to accept or believe which is false. This is against what God teaches. I cannot believe which is not true.

Enemies comes in all sizes and shapes. I know you are a nice guy and apparently many like you here including me. But I will not bow to what is false because of you.
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When did I ask you to accept or believe anything I said or profess? When did I ask you to bow down to anything? All I asked you in this thread was do you agree with the quotes from Catholic bishops and a Cardinal I provided? And for this, I get the “tax collector” card.

Jon
 
wisdomseeker said:
Plus, we are not people who follow teachings of martin luther, we accept only what Jesus and the Apostles tought in His Church. We don’t follow those who rebelled against the Church. the Apostles warned the leaders of the Church about those who leaves the Church and teach falsehood and many follow them. we must take heed and hold on to the Ark of Noah, the Church, even when it looks like is sinking like right now. The Saints died for this holy Faith, we honor them by doing the same.
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Wisdom, I didn’t ask you to “follow” Dr. Luther.

With the wonderful pope you have right now, I can’t imagine why you think it is sinking.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
When did I ask you to accept or believe anything I said or profess? When did I ask you to bow down to anything? All I asked you in this thread was do you agree with the quotes from Catholic bishops and a Cardinal I provided? And for this, I get the “tax collector” card.

Jon
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Here is what i agree with. the holy father. if anyone says any diferent, yes I will disagree. I dont even know what exactly they said and how you enterpreted. apparently pleased you whatever they said. I know how protestants use one Catholic Bishop against the other.
I know how protestants sees the CC, they see her as just a Church like theirs when the Holy father says that there is only Church and you all get mad. how can you get mad at the Truth. oh yes, i remember how many hated Jesus because He spoke the Truth and He also told how his people also would be hated.

The holy father also said that charity without the Truth is no charity. I know you all want to be sugar coated. I have not developed the reputation of sugar coating. I know how dangerous this can be. people who like to use nice statements tend to intimidate others.
 
JonNC said:
Wisdom, I didn’t ask you to “follow” Dr. Luther.

With the wonderful pope you have right now, I can’t imagine why you think it is sinking.

Jon
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Jon i cannot expect you to see what we see. we dont have the same Faith. a Pure Faith.
the words of the holy father. “Lord your Church looks more like a boat sinking, waters are coming from all sides. In thy field there are more weeds than wheat.”
 
JonNC said:
Some Lutheran Churches - in Scandinavia - maintained AS. The ones in Germany did not, in the sense of bishop ordination. The bishops refused to ordain pastors for the evangelical (not the American meaning) churches. They instead relied on the historic practice of presbyter ordination.

If they are Lutheran, they accept the Augsburg Confession and the Lutheran Confessions, which teach the real presence.

Jon
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Real presence? So the teachings of the Catholic Church of the presence of our Lord and Savior in the Eucharist is false?
 
EzraJacob said:
Real presence? So the teachings of the Catholic Church of the presence of our Lord and Savior in the Eucharist is false?
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Where did I imply that? Absolutely not! Lutherans are not inclined to Transubstantiation, but we share the belief that the bread Is His body. The wine IS His blood.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
Where did I imply that? Absolutely not! Lutherans are not inclined to Transubstantiation, but we share the belief that the bread Is His body. The wine IS His blood.

Jon
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Hi Jon how is it going. I have a stupid question, But here it is. If you agree that the bread is indeed his body and the wine is indeed his blood then what are we disagreeing on?:confused:

And if you agree in the Real Presence what are we disagreeing on?:confused:

I mean itsn’t it all the same when its all cut and dry that bread and wine become the actual body and blood of Christ.:confused:
 
rinnie said:
Hi Jon how is it going. I have a stupid question, But here it is. If you agree that the bread is indeed his body and the wine is indeed his blood then what are we disagreeing on?:confused:

And if you agree in the Real Presence what are we disagreeing on?:confused:

I mean itsn’t it all the same when its all cut and dry that bread and wine become the actual body and blood of Christ.:confused:
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Hi rinnie,
Absolutely not a stupid question! Our difference is inhow we express the presence. Lutherans view the use metaphysical terms that are present in Transubstantiation and consubstantiation as unnecessary. How Christ is present, and what the physical disposition of the bread and wine are, are not explained by Christ. We view it as a mystery. That’s not to say it is necessarily wrong -God does with the bread and wine as He wills - it just isn’t explained to us in Christ’s words. He says, this is my body, this is my blood. And so, for Lutherans, the bread IS His body, the wine IS His blood.

I agree with you that, when its all cut and dry , our views seem to be, in many ways, a distinction without a difference.

Jon

BTW, how’s my old stompin grounds of Pa. doing?
 
JonNC said:
Hi rinnie,
Absolutely not a stupid question! Our difference is inhow we express the presence. Lutherans view the use metaphysical terms that are present in Transubstantiation and consubstantiation as unnecessary. How Christ is present, and what the physical disposition of the bread and wine are, are not explained by Christ. We view it as a mystery. That’s not to say it is necessarily wrong -God does with the bread and wine as He wills - it just isn’t explained to us in Christ’s words. He says, this is my body, this is my blood. And so, for Lutherans, the bread IS His body, the wine IS His blood.

I agree with you that, when its all cut and dry , our views seem to be, in many ways, a distinction without a difference.

Jon

BTW, how’s my old stompin grounds of Pa. doing?
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Yes it seems we do see it the same.

Oh this WEATHER is WET!!! It is so rainy. I came up with one of my new get rich quick schemes:eek:

We bought a house about 3 miles from the college and we are totally re-doing it. Well we have to do foundation work. It is a pain in the :sad_yes:

Fixing the foundation was pretty simple. BUT putting in a french drain which should be simple is not that simple. Because this house is OLD and there is about 150 years of concrete to bust through. SO I am not my husbands favorite person at this moment.

So if you hear local man kills wife of almost 30 years news at 11 You will know it is me.😃
 
hn160 said:
Our Eucharist in our eyes is is just as valid as yours and our called and ordained pastors are just as valid as a Catholic priest and Lutheran pastors are just as well educated in Lutheran seminaries as Catholic priest. Don’t give me guff about St. Peter and the Keys. Christ gave the Keys to all the apostles.:signofcross:
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And in a Hindu’s eyes, Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu are gods. In an atheist’s eyes, God doesn’t exist. In a evolutionist’s eyes, evolution is true. In a creationist’s eyes, evolution is false.

Subjectivism denies the existence or knowability of objective reality. This, however, must be rejected since even in our daily lives, we have to accept that we have some ability to discern objective reality. The objective reality is that a Lutheran pastor is not a priest (unless, of course, one obtains valid holy orders such as through the Old Catholics or a Catholic priest becomes a Lutheran, as Luther himself did) and has no ability to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Lutherans do not have Apostolic Succession.
 
JonNC said:
Some Lutheran Churches - in Scandinavia - maintained AS. The ones in Germany did not, in the sense of bishop ordination. The bishops refused to ordain pastors for the evangelical (not the American meaning) churches. They instead relied on the historic practice of presbyter ordination.
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Some Lutheran national churches claim Apostolic Succession. However, like the Anglicans, they lost it because they changed the definition of the priesthood.
If they are Lutheran, they accept the Augsburg Confession and the Lutheran Confessions, which teach the real presence.
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The purpose of Christ’s presence in the Eucharist is for the Holy Sacrifice. Lutherans deny that the Mass is a Sacrifice and also Lutheran ministers are not priests and so have no ability to consecrate the Eucharist, even if they were to do so apart from the true Mass (which is possible, but is a grave sin). So Lutherans may teach the “real presence” (although in a false way) but it does not mean that Lutheran bread and wine is the same as the Catholic Eucharist, there is no substantial presence of Christ there.
 
VivaCristoRey27 said:
And in a Hindu’s eyes, Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu are gods. In an atheist’s eyes, God doesn’t exist. In a evolutionist’s eyes, evolution is true. In a creationist’s eyes, evolution is false.

Subjectivism denies the existence or knowability of objective reality. This, however, must be rejected since even in our daily lives, we have to accept that we have some ability to discern objective reality. The objective reality is that a Lutheran pastor is not a priest (unless, of course, one obtains valid holy orders such as through the Old Catholics or a Catholic priest becomes a Lutheran, as Luther himself did) and has no ability to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Lutherans do not have Apostolic Succession.
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That is right. just because i claim, it doesnt mean i have it. people have the tendency to believe that if they just believe it they will have it. Not with God. God is serious being, He is no childs play.
 
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