The Rosary and Imagination

[cothrige]

I am not entirely comfortable with the idea of using my imagination much when I pray. I don’t like the thought of trying to picture things imaginatively as I fear that I will start adding my own ideas to what I am contemplating. When I meditate on the mysteries of the Rosary, therefore, I have always just kept the mystery before my mind in thought, but without imagining the events movie-style. But a while back I found something somewhere on how to pray the Rosary, perhaps a leaflet type thing, and it actually said to imagine the scene in your mind, and perhaps to put yourself in it. I must say I didn’t like the sound of that at all, but wondered if maybe that was what was accepted as the normal way. I then read up as much as I could find about the Rosary, and book after book just said meditate, but never gave any details on just what that meant.

For that reason I am asking here, just to get an idea of what other people find helpful. How much imagination do you use? How exactly do you “meditate” on the mysteries? What do most people think of when meditating on the mysteries of the Rosary is being discussed?

Thanks in advance for any information or help which can be offered.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

How can you meditate if you do not have things going through your mind? Meditation is not sitting like a blank chalk board waiting for someone to write something on it. This is one of the problems with some forms of Oriental meditation. We meditate of what it is that we know and in picturing them in our mind, see in our imagination what would have been taking place. The more one reads and studies about that which we meditate about, the more we will get out of meditation. It is then based on Church teaching which is always sour guide.

 

[cothrige]

How can you meditate if you do not have things going through your mind? Meditation is not sitting like a blank chalk board waiting for someone to write something on it. This is one of the problems with some forms of Oriental meditation.

Just to be clear, what exactly might you mean by “going through your mind” and “blank chalk board?” I don’t empty my mind of thoughts if that is what you mean. I just have always avoided the “playing of a scene” in my mind type of thing. Like a little movie or some such. I do use mental images, and such, but I try to keep things simple and controlled so that I can avoid adding my own ideas unintended to the events. I have ideas and reactions, of course, but I just hate the thought that I could slowly confuse them with the actual event being meditated on rather than as the reaction to the meditation. Does that make sense?

 

[The_Catholic]

I am not entirely comfortable with the idea of using my imagination much when I pray. I don’t like the thought of trying to picture things imaginatively as I fear that I will start adding my own ideas to what I am contemplating. When I meditate on the mysteries of the Rosary, therefore, I have always just kept the mystery before my mind in thought, but without imagining the events movie-style. But a while back I found something somewhere on how to pray the Rosary, perhaps a leaflet type thing, and it actually said to imagine the scene in your mind, and perhaps to put yourself in it. I must say I didn’t like the sound of that at all, but wondered if maybe that was what was accepted as the normal way. I then read up as much as I could find about the Rosary, and book after book just said meditate, but never gave any details on just what that meant.

For that reason I am asking here, just to get an idea of what other people find helpful. How much imagination do you use? How exactly do you “meditate” on the mysteries? What do most people think of when meditating on the mysteries of the Rosary is being discussed?

Thanks in advance for any information or help which can be offered.

I don’t know how much I can help. but I’ll just say that for me, it’s difficult to keep a steady imagination, my mind goes easily astray, and I have severe OCD. So when I pray, I try to keep it a ssimple as I can, “Hail Mary, full of Grace,” I think about our Blessed Mother being Full of Grace, “Hail Holy Queen,” I think about her being, well, my Queen, my Mother, and “Jesus, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of your Mercy,” I think about Jesus being the Saviour, dying for us.

Simple yet powerful scenes as this. i can’t imagine it like a movie, only what the words we speak say.

 

[Eucharisted]

God has given man an imagination. Meditation is one reason why we have an imagination.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Just to be clear, what exactly might you mean by “going through your mind” and “blank chalk board?” I don’t empty my mind of thoughts if that is what you mean. I just have always avoided the “playing of a scene” in my mind type of thing. Like a little movie or some such. I do use mental images, and such, but I try to keep things simple and controlled so that I can avoid adding my own ideas unintended to the events. I have ideas and reactions, of course, but I just hate the thought that I could slowly confuse them with the actual event being meditated on rather than as the reaction to the meditation. Does that make sense?

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Sorry, my computer froze before I finished my reply and the previous post is all that came out.

What I meant by going through your mind was to picture that on which you were meditating. If you are meditating on the passion, picture it. Think of the various stages, for example each sorrowful mystery. You thoughts I can assure you will not be accurate with reality, but you thinking of and praying and uniting yourself with Jesus in the passion is the purpose and goal of meditation. Jesus has promised through the saints that those who do this, will receive much grace and reward.

By a black chalk board, I meant keeping your mind perfectly blank and keeping it that way or waiting for things to “pop up” if you would. It does not happen that way. Some oriental religions meditate this way, but as Christians, even if in the Oriental rite, we do not.

Hopefully this helps.

 

[cothrige]

What I meant by going through your mind was to picture that on which you were meditating. If you are meditating on the passion, picture it. Think of the various stages, for example each sorrowful mystery. You thoughts I can assure you will not be accurate with reality, but you thinking of and praying and uniting yourself with Jesus in the passion is the purpose and goal of meditation. Jesus has promised through the saints that those who do this, will receive much grace and reward.

No, that sounds much like what I do. I use mental images when I need to (I guess that may be unavoidable to an extent) but I try keep such things simple and as restrained as possible. I have avoided the likes of moving image type recreations, or placing myself into a scene, as that text had suggested. That just sounded very creative to me, and I fear that if I did that I would end up replacing the original object of my meditation with something else of my own devising.

By a black chalk board, I meant keeping your mind perfectly blank and keeping it that way or waiting for things to “pop up” if you would. It does not happen that way. Some oriental religions meditate this way, but as Christians, even if in the Oriental rite, we do not.

I thought you may have meant that. No, I don’t do that. I am not sure I would be able too if I tried. I do try to meditate on the mystery, but I just avoid any unnecessary creativity if possible.

Thanks for the information.

 

[cothrige]

God has given man an imagination. Meditation is one reason why we have an imagination.

But, how far do you personally take the imagination in this? Do you build a recreation of the entire scene in your mind during the decade? Do you play it out before you? Do you react to it as if there? If not, how do you approach the meditation? And if so, then do you ever worry that you have developed a potentially false or misleading understanding of the mystery which you have then taken as the real thing and are now meditating on that instead of the original mystery? That is what I have wondered.

 

[DebChris]

St. Ignatius encouraged using the imagination in prayer. It is a way of placing yourself within the scene and making it personal.
I have found adding a single word or phrase after “blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus______” helps me keep focus on the mystery as I pray.
When I pray the first sorrowful mystery for instance, I add “in the garden.” I see not only Jesus as He prays but also the Apostles as they slept. Another time, I am the garden that Jesus tends.
The addition of “King of Kings” for the third sorrowful mystery serves as a reminder that Jesus is mocked today, as He was during His passion.
Prayer using the imagination moves it beyond simple recitation of a known formula to the conversation it is meant to be.
The imagination will be different for different people and at different times. It may be simple thoughts, as it generally is for me. For others it is a visualization of the scene as it occurred, much as if watching a movie or seeing it unfold before the eyes.

 

[brigid12]

I am not entirely comfortable with the idea of using my imagination much when I pray. I don’t like the thought of trying to picture things imaginatively as I fear that I will start adding my own ideas to what I am contemplating. When I meditate on the mysteries of the Rosary, therefore, I have always just kept the mystery before my mind in thought, but without imagining the events movie-style. But a while back I found something somewhere on how to pray the Rosary, perhaps a leaflet type thing, and it actually said to imagine the scene in your mind, and perhaps to put yourself in it. I must say I didn’t like the sound of that at all, but wondered if maybe that was what was accepted as the normal way. I then read up as much as I could find about the Rosary, and book after book just said meditate, but never gave any details on just what that meant.

For that reason I am asking here, just to get an idea of what other people find helpful. How much imagination do you use? How exactly do you “meditate” on the mysteries? What do most people think of when meditating on the mysteries of the Rosary is being discussed?

Thanks in advance for any information or help which can be offered.

I understand what you’re posting since it is common practice to use the Ignation method of prayer by many people when they pray. Apparently, over half of Catholics - I don’t know where they got that number - have a spirituality that is compatible with this “put yourself in the picture” style, however I was told I was not one of this number. Well, I still pray a lot (and the Ignation method doesn’t do a thing for me), however I need to try to connect what the prayer is truly saying with my own life, usually with words (although pictures, icons, and music all help me). I can have prayed a prayer, say the Rosary, numerous times and I can keep realizing new things about it and how it effects my life/actions, etc.
There are numerous styles of prayer spirituality within Catholicism and they all can be fully orthodox and holy. I, personally, try to avoid prayer practices that have originated in the Orient and try to stay with prayer practices that have been used successfully by Saints. My own personal preferences being St. Teresa of Avila and St. Therese of Lisieux. Did I spell that right?

 

[Monica4316]

I don’t really imagine myself in the scene either… not usually… unless it helps me.

 

[DebChris]

My church bulletin answered the question “What is prayer?”
It begins with the purpose of prayer as “raising the mind and heart to God.”
Our desire to pray is in fact prayer since the desire itself is a raising of the heart and mind to God.
Some people find the Ignatius method of placing themselves in the scene as helpful As has already been stated, others do not.
“Do not worry about the words or way your pray. Just pray. Lose yourself in his presence. Relax. Pray in bed if you like. It is not about how you look or what you say. It is about your heart and mind in him.” [John Mamrogue,C.S.s.R]

 

[danonwaveland]

FWIW, I don’t place myself in the scenes, either. But I do kind of play them out or, at other times, just think on what an “annunciation” or “finding Jesus in the Temple” means. At one point, I found that the joyful mysteries had their share of sorrow, too. For example, the annunciation meant this young unmarried – but betrothed – girl would have some ‘splainin’ to do about her pregnancy and you know that the locals’ tongues would be waggin’ at warp speed. Or that visit to Elizabeth must have been a rough ride for a pregnant girl. Or the joy of the birth of our Savior was mixed with less-than-five-star accomodations, including drafty lodgings, etc. Or the presentation in the Temple is accompanied by this elderly gent who tells Mary she – and the little Child – have got some tough sledding ahead of themselves. And the finding in the Temple has a few obvious sorrowful aspects to it. Without the Rosary, I wouldn’t have thought of these angles.

In similar ways, thinking about – meditating? – on the other mysteries brings about deeper and/or different ways of seeing these events in the life of Christ and His mother.

But I ramble again. I’m sorry. The Rosary is such a wonderfully simple and difficult prayer that has worked to bring us so much closer to Christ than we could imagine!

God bless,
Dan

P.S.: It’s interesting that a few of these joyful mysteries are part of the seven sorrows of our Lady!

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

No, that sounds much like what I do. I use mental images when I need to (I guess that may be unavoidable to an extent) but I try keep such things simple and as restrained as possible. I have avoided the likes of moving image type recreations, or placing myself into a scene, as that text had suggested. That just sounded very creative to me, and I fear that if I did that I would end up replacing the original object of my meditation with something else of my own devising.

I thought you may have meant that. No, I don’t do that. I am not sure I would be able too if I tried. I do try to meditate on the mystery, but I just avoid any unnecessary creativity if possible.

Thanks for the information.

I have explained to you, methods taught in ascetical theology. If you wand to use them, fine. If not, than I don’t know what else to tell you. Your thoughts DO NOT replace what really happened, and will never come close.

 

[wolfgang]

I don’t really imagine myself in the scene either… not usually… unless it helps me.

I don’t either.

:angel1:

 

[danonwaveland]

Wolfgang,

We’ve got that St. Michael icon in our church, in an alcove towards the back. I stop by every morning to say ‘hi’ and ask for help for my wife, my son and myself. Very nice image.

God bless,
Dan

 

[Carlion]

I think I know where you’re coming from. When I started praying the rosary years ago, I prayed it like a child would, just reciting the words without paying them any more attention than I would pay to my words while in a conversation. It was like just “talking” with Mary, and it was wonderful. As soon as I tried meditating in the way people have described, the Rosary became an arduous chore instead of a heartfelt prayer.

So what I did was go back to the original way I was praying it. For example, I’ll tell the Lord I’m offering this next decade through the Immaculate Heart of Mary in honor of His agony in the garden, and maybe I’ll say I also offer it for the suffering here on earth. Then I simply recite the prayers. For that moment during the offering my mind was on the mystery.

The prayers, though recited simply, aren’t recited without heart. Like I said, I pray them in the same way a normal person converses. You’re well aware of what you’re saying, but you’re not pausing and meditating every two or three words. Imagine trying to talk to your husband or wife like that. Imagine trying to say “I love you, honey”, but pausing for a few seconds after saying “I” and then meditating on the meaning of personhood and existence. I can’t do that.

I read everything I can about the saints, and two themes that reappear over and over is the idea of being like a child with the Lord and keeping things simple. Jesus illustrated as much with the Lord’s Prayer when you think about it. He referred to God as Father and kept the prayer short and sweet, and didn’t mention a thing about meditating on it.

Of course, I just want to make it clear that I bear no grudge against Ignatian meditation, and if it works for someone, they should do it. But I can’t.

 

[cothrige]

I have explained to you, methods taught in ascetical theology. If you wand to use them, fine. If not, than I don’t know what else to tell you. Your thoughts DO NOT replace what really happened, and will never come close.

Alright. Forget I asked. I don’t see where I said anything that should have upset you. I merely asked how other people do things, and have mentioned why I have done things the way I have so far. I didn’t attack your method, or call you wrong, but only stated why I had restrained myself from some practices up to this point. Besides, it was only meant as a conversation. If it bothers you that much then you need hardly trouble yourself about it at all.

 

[cothrige]

Of course, I just want to make it clear that I bear no grudge against Ignatian meditation, and if it works for someone, they should do it. But I can’t.

I must admit ignorance of St. Ignatius’ approach to meditative prayer, at least beyond the very rudimentary things I have heard from others. I am not a student of his methods in any way. However, I do wonder if he really meant for ordinary Catholics to apply these methods to the Rosary? Perhaps somebody here who really does follow his spirituality can actually speak to that. But, I had thought that this idea of meditation came from his Spiritual Exercises, and that they were a rather organized program of specific meditations meant to be used under spiritual guidance. Is it certain that he intended then for ordinary people to use these same techniques without any such guidance? I expect to discover I am absolutely wrong about my understanding of this, since as I have said I am basically ignorant in this regard. But, like you, I also have no “grudge” against any such method, though I have never practiced it. As if that weren’t obvious.