The Rosary and the promises of Our Lady

[Lamafacaja]

Are these a “private revelation”? How many of you believe them?

1. To all those who shall pray my Rosary devoutly, I promise my special protection and great graces.
2. Those who shall persevere in the recitation of my Rosary will receive some special grace.
3. The Rosary will be a very powerful armor against hell; it will destroy vice, deliver from sin and dispel heresy.
4. The Rosary will make virtue and good works flourish, and will obtain for souls the most abundant divine mercies. It will draw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
5. Those who trust themselves to me through the Rosary will not perish.
6. Whoever recites my Rosary devoutly reflecting on the mysteries, shall never be overwhelmed by misfortune. He will not experience the anger of God nor will he perish by an unprovided death. The sinner will be converted; the just will persevere in grace and merit eternal life.
7. Those truly devoted to my Rosary shall not die without the sacraments of the Church.
8. Those who are faithful to recite my Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces and will share in the merits of the blessed.
9. I will deliver promptly from purgatory souls devoted to my Rosary.
10. True children of my Rosary will enjoy great glory in heaven.
11. What you shall ask through my Rosary you shall obtain.
12. To those who propagate my Rosary I promise aid in all their necessities.
13. I have obtained from my Son that all the members of the Rosary Confraternity shall have as their intercessors, in life and in death, the entire celestial court.
14. Those who recite my Rosary faithfully are my beloved children, the brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ.
15. Devotion to my Rosary is a special sign of predestination.

Has anyone had any luck with #11? Would you like to share your experience? How can you be sure there wasn’t a placebo effect at work? I was told that your requests must be within the realm of “the will of God”. So far I haven’t had much luck with it, and I’m not sure I believe any of these promises. I do find recitation of the rosary to reduce anxiety. It is also relaxing and I do not intend to stop my devotion.

Oh, I believe all of them! Without a doubt. The rosary is a way into faith. The Mass is too, and Holy Mass is more important than even the rosary, but not everyone can go to Holy Mass every day, so we have the rosary to keep our hearts and minds focused on God, and focused on the things of God through scripture. I believe we really need to be reading the bible passages that make up the mysteries in order to fully benefit from praying the rosary. Then the Holy Spirit can speak to our hearts as our Blessed Mother intercedes for us while we pray.

As for luck with #11, lol, I don’t think that this promise pertains to arbitrary or mundane things, say like a new car, you know. God doesn’t care about those things. You’ll only receive that which will truly help both your and others for who you pray, to get to heaven. Sometimes it can take many rosaries, but I do believe that as Our Lord told us, what we ask for, we will receive.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I totally agree, also the original 15 Mystries of Faith coincide with the 15-promise’s of the Rosary.I can’t seperate one from the other.

Also thats another good point about Mass. And the idea of many not being physically able to attend. Today its my understanding that a Catholic Mass is on public TV daily in the morning for this very purpose. Though I don’t know the specifics to type here.

We just had this conversation the other day. Often I’ll stop by my mothers home to take her to Mass. I make an honest effort to do this weekly. She has a issue with her vision which makes it a bit more difficult for her to drive today. She just mentioned watching the Catholic Mass weekdays in the morning.

 

[Hesychios]

Your point with all these posts are? It’s as simple as seeing that the Rosary was just being perfectioned. God bless you. If you do notice, it does admit that the Rosary did exist and that people did pray it. So in conclusion, the apparition was real and did happen. Period. Have a nice day.

WHAT?

What kind of logic was that? I hope that you are joking, I am just not getting it today. Of course the rosary is real, I pray it myself. That has nothing whatever to do with the supposed apparition, and the logic does not follow.

Did you actually read and comprehend these Catholic sources I posted here?

Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe. If you have more faith in her as you say, then why do you not believe that she appeared to St. Dominic?

The practice of praying the rosary as fifty or 150 repetitions predates the life of Saint Dominic. So saint Mary didn’t give him that.

The final form of the “Hail Mary” wasn’t determined until some time around Trent (and the rosary influenced the development of the prayer, not the other way around). So Saint Mary didn’t give him that either.

The Mysteries weren’t added until two hundred years after Saint Dominic lived, so Saint Mary didn’t even give him that!

So what did ‘she’ give him? Every part of the practice of the rosary can be explained, there is historical reference to every development.

Saint Dominic himself never even claimed to have seen the apparition, he was not known for it and no particular mention of it was made in connection with him, nor his religious order, for over 250 years. Two and one half centuries can be 10 to 13 generations of Christianity with no one referencing an apparition nor the rosary itself to Saint Dominic.

That would be like someone today writing a book stating that the Abraham Lincoln had a vision of Mary and she gave him the Constitution.

The whole thing is a fake, and some people posting here have fallen for it. Pious fiction didn’t start with Medjugorje, it seems.

As a separate matter, but more to topic, I have already addressed (early in this thread) the unlikelihood that the promises are from Saint Mary, they are entirely uncharacteristic of what one would expect from a humble, modest and saintly mother … and the ‘apparition’ claims to be able to do some things only God can do, but for a more complete discussion one may read my earlier posts.

 

[paperwight]

Prayer Hail Mary, Again mentioned in the links above. We know thats directly from the Angel Gabrial speaking to Mary
God Bless, GT

Slow down a bit, Gary. I know that Hesychios has posted quite long messages, but they deserve careful readfing, which you don’t seem to have given them.

Some of the Catholic practices we have today, and which some who haven’t read about their development assume have always been part of Catholic life, would be totally unknown to Catholics of , say, a thousand years ago. A Tabernacle, for instance, with Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. Private Confession as we know it today, one to one with a priest. And the Rosary in the form we know it today.

We don’t do the Catholic Church any favours by denying that there has been development, because that would be contrary to the truth. Non-Catholics can easily seize on what is not true, and use these untruths to ‘prove’ the Catholic Church isn’t what it claims to be, the true church.

I have highlighted your comment about the Hail Mary as being a good example of what is only partly true, and therefore partly untrue. Perhaps you did not mean the statement as you have written it. Part of the Hail Mary is indeed from the greeting of the Archangel. but then part of it is from St. Elizabeth. Then the other half beginning ‘pray for us sinners’ was added on centuries later, as Hesychios described. So is it true to say it’s directly from Gabriel? Yes and No - in fact, mostly No.

The Catholic Church exists in history and is made up of human beings. Nothing was handed down from God inscribed on stone tablets. All the prayers we have. all the documents, all the ceremonies, apart from the words of consecration and the Our Father, have been brought about by humans pondering on what other humans have written and said, and then developing or changing things over time.

 

[thetruth0flife]

WHAT?

What kind of logic was that? I hope that you are joking, I am just not getting it today. Of course the rosary is real, I pray it myself. That has nothing whatever to do with the supposed apparition, and the logic does not follow.

Did you actually read and comprehend these Catholic sources I posted here?

The practice of praying the rosary as fifty or 150 repetitions predates the life of Saint Dominic. So saint Mary didn’t give him that.

The final form of the “Hail Mary” wasn’t determined until some time around Trent (and the rosary influenced the development of the prayer, not the other way around). So Saint Mary didn’t give him that either.

The Mysteries weren’t added until two hundred years after Saint Dominic lived, so Saint Mary didn’t even give him that!

So what did ‘she’ give him? Every part of the practice of the rosary can be explained, there is historical reference to every development.

Saint Dominic himself never even claimed to have seen the apparition, he was not known for it and no particular mention of it was made in connection with him, nor his religious order, for over 250 years. Two and one half centuries can be 10 to 13 generations of Christianity with no one referencing an apparition nor the rosary itself to Saint Dominic.

That would be like someone today writing a book stating that the Abraham Lincoln had a vision of Mary and she gave him the Constitution.

The whole thing is a fake, and some people posting here have fallen for it. Pious fiction didn’t start with Medjugorje, it seems.

As a separate matter, but more to topic, I have already addressed (early in this thread) the unlikelihood that the promises are from Saint Mary, they are entirely uncharacteristic of what one would expect from a humble, modest and saintly mother … and the ‘apparition’ claims to be able to do some things only God can do, but for a more complete discussion one may read my earlier posts.

Your time has come and you’ll now be defeated. I don’t comprehend why someone who does not believe the Rosary came from our blessed Mother Mary and was given to St. Dominic in an apparition, would be praying it. As you say, you have faith in Mary yet you lack faith in believing in a simple apparition. It doesn’t make sense to be praying something in which you doubt its validity or origins. Somone who doubts where the origins of the Rosary came from would have little faith in praying it and would have the inability of focusing or meditating in it. If you doubt the Rosary and think it doesn’t come from our blessed mother, then what’s the point of praying it? Other than that, It is a ilogical to be from a diferent religion and be praying something that is all supposedly myth according to your own words. Finally, although you do pray it, you are concerned about its whole structure and the way and we pray it based on “your knowledge” of history. According to your posts, the practice of the Rosary either suddenly disappeared, things were added, or its not how it was when it was given to St. Dominic. That makes me to feel pity for you because you don’t even have the ability to carefully analize historical information carefully. I will slowly start proving everything I have said.

There is concrete evidence of the early origins of the Rosary and he personally prayed it when for his people:

Just before the battle of Muret, September 12, 1213, the saint was again found in the council that preceded the battle. During the conflict, he knelt before the altar in the church of Saint-Jacques, praying for the triumph of the Catholic arms. So remarkable was the victory of the crusaders at Muret that Simon de Montfort regarded it as altogether miraculous, and piously attributed the victory to the prayers of Saint Dominic. In gratitude to God for this decisive victory, the crusader erected a chapel in the church of Saint-Jacques, which it is said he dedicated to Our Lady of the Rosary.

During the times of Saint Dominic, there was heresy because of the Albigensians and in order to combat it, our Lady appeared to him in order to counter arrest all the heresy and convert people so they will return back to the faith:
*
Saint Dominic never forgot his purpose–confirmed eleven years before–of founding a religious order to combat heresy and propagate religious truth*

Secondly, it does not matter if things of the Rosary change. If anything, it simply becomes perfected. There is a distinct diference between something becoming perfected on account on your idea that if the Rosary wasn’t the same as it really was in the past, then it isn’t that effect or credible. As we all know, the prayers are there and even mysteries were added which guarantees that you’ll maintain your catholic faith because you’re living the life of Christ. Nothing bad or out of the ordinary within our catholic faith was added and makes the Rosary to be reliable. Individuals shouldn’t really be worrying about it not being exactly the same as to how Saint Dominic prayed it and should actually be happy that it is probably even better.

Thirdly, as for your whole theory of St. Dominic not having claimed of having an apparition is also false as well as no historical background existing:

This innovated version of the rosary was widely spread by Blessed Alan de la Roche of the Dominican Order, as it revived the divinely inspired works that St. Dominic and his Rosary Confraternity had initiated some hundred years earlier.

 

[thetruth0flife]

continued…

There is also recordings and another apparition (highly doubt you believe in it) in which it confirms that Saint Dominic did recieve the apparition and that the Rosary did originate from him:

In 1460, Blessed Alan de la Roche, (a Domincan in the same province as that of St. Dominic,) received a vision from Our Lady, urging him to re-kindle the devotion to her Psalter - the Rosary.
St Dominic also appeared to Blessed Alan, encouraging him to preach and pray Our Lady’s Psalter. He said that preaching the Rosary unceasingly, had great results on his ministry, and that his sermons had borne great fruit and many people had been converted during his missions.
Saint Dominic also told Alan the history of his own revelations from Our Lady. Alan de la Roche collated these revelations in the famous writings known as “ De Dignitate Psalterii.”
Once again through the efforts of Alan de La Roche, the rosary was revived and in popular use throughout Europe for many years.

There is even writings of this apparition and the Rosary. Im not done yet there is more…

*In 1571, Pope Pius V organized a fleet under the command of Don Juan of Austria the half-brother of King Philip II of Spain. While preparations were underway, the Holy Father asked all of the faithful **to say the rosary *and implore our Blessed Mother’s prayers, under the title Our Lady of Victory, that our Lord would grant victory to the Christians.

How did this Pope know that there was a Rosary and prayers? Doesn’t there have to be some documentation or proof that there was a practice of a Rosary before? It obiously means that St. Dominic had prayed it and that he did claim to have had the apparition. God bless you.

Bibliography:

3op.org/stdominic.php

erosary.com/rosary/about/history.htm

ewtn.com/library/answers/rosaryhs.htm

rosaryprimer.blogspot.com/2008/10/what-are-mysteries-of-rosary.html

 

[Gumbercules]

Are these a “private revelation”? How many of you believe them?

1. To all those who shall pray my Rosary devoutly, I promise my special protection and great graces.
2. Those who shall persevere in the recitation of my Rosary will receive some special grace.
3. The Rosary will be a very powerful armor against hell; it will destroy vice, deliver from sin and dispel heresy.
4. The Rosary will make virtue and good works flourish, and will obtain for souls the most abundant divine mercies. It will draw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
5. Those who trust themselves to me through the Rosary will not perish.
6. Whoever recites my Rosary devoutly reflecting on the mysteries, shall never be overwhelmed by misfortune. He will not experience the anger of God nor will he perish by an unprovided death. The sinner will be converted; the just will persevere in grace and merit eternal life.
7. Those truly devoted to my Rosary shall not die without the sacraments of the Church.
8. Those who are faithful to recite my Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces and will share in the merits of the blessed.
9. I will deliver promptly from purgatory souls devoted to my Rosary.
10. True children of my Rosary will enjoy great glory in heaven.
11. What you shall ask through my Rosary you shall obtain.
12. To those who propagate my Rosary I promise aid in all their necessities.
13. I have obtained from my Son that all the members of the Rosary Confraternity shall have as their intercessors, in life and in death, the entire celestial court.
14. Those who recite my Rosary faithfully are my beloved children, the brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ.
15. Devotion to my Rosary is a special sign of predestination.

Has anyone had any luck with #11? Would you like to share your experience? How can you be sure there wasn’t a placebo effect at work? I was told that your requests must be within the realm of “the will of God”. So far I haven’t had much luck with it, and I’m not sure I believe any of these promises. I do find recitation of the rosary to reduce anxiety. It is also relaxing and I do not intend to stop my devotion.

They are a private revelation at Fatima, and are worthy of belief, but not binding on the souls of any Catholic person. I pray the Rosary, and ask for the intercession of the Blessed Mother daily. I dont see anything specifically wrong with any of the promises. Since I just recently started, I dont have any personal experience with prayers granted through recitation of the Rosary. I usually say the Rosary for the needs of a family member or person at work. Whether or not they are helped by it, I dont know, but I know its never wrong to recommend yourself and others to the patronage of the Theotokos. I have also heard of folks being delivered from vices and addictions as a result of the intercession of the Blessed Mother.

I also occasionally say the Jesus Prayer using an Eastern Catholic “Chotki”. Its a knotted rope used to say the Jesus Prayer:

Lord Jesus Christ, eternal Son of God, have mercy upon me, a sinner.

or

Lord Jesus Christ, eternal Son of God, by the prayers of the Blessed Theotokos, have mercy upon me, a sinner.

I have found this Eastern Christian practice rewarding as well.

Yours,

Gumbercules

 

[Hesychios]

How did this Pope know that there was a Rosary and prayers? Doesn’t there have to be some documentation or proof that there was a practice of a Rosary before? It obiously means that St. Dominic had prayed it and that he did claim to have had the apparition.

I this the kind of reasoning you routinely use to make all the decisions you come up with?

Your logic does not follow. I wonder if anyone else here is willing to back you up on this one.

.

 

[thetruth0flife]

I this the kind of reasoning you routinely use to make all the decisions you come up with?

Your logic does not follow. I wonder if anyone else here is willing to back you up on this one.

.

So you’re confused? Or should that be a sign of defeat? You were trying to say that people invented the Rosary and that it didn’t come from Mary. I say that it did come from Mary and the apparition is true because a Pope recited a Rosary which means that it was always present but they never used it or people simply ignored it. It’s logical to conclude that after St. Dominic died, everything paused and no one continued with the devotion. It’s that simple. It had always been present in the church and that Pope was intelligent enough to put his hopes on it and pray it. Also, it said to pray “the” Rosary and not “lets make up” a Rosary and pray it and say that it had been an apparition that had happened to St. Dominic. Either way, everything appoints to St. Dominic. It wouldn’t make sense for a Pope to be reciting or praying a Rosary if the apparition had been false and all the Rosary was supposedly myth. Especially when going into an important war… Need more explaining?

 

[Hesychios]

So you’re confused? Or should that be a sign of defeat? You were trying to say that people invented the Rosary and that it didn’t come from Mary. I say that it did come from Mary and the apparition is true because a Pope recited a Rosary which means that it was always present but they never used it or people simply ignored it. It’s logical to conclude that after St. Dominic died, everything paused and no one continued with the devotion. It’s that simple. It had always been present in the church and that Pope was intelligent enough to put his hopes on it and pray it. Also, it said to pray “the” Rosary and not “lets make up” a Rosary and pray it and say that it had been an apparition that had happened to St. Dominic. Either way, everything appoints to St. Dominic. It wouldn’t make sense for a Pope to be reciting or praying a Rosary if the apparition had been false and all the Rosary was supposedly myth. Especially when going into an important war… Need more explaining?

You are inventing.

 

[paperwight]

It’s that simple. It had always been present in the church .

Another statement that is ‘Yes and No but mostly No’, and so which amounts to an untruth.

The Rosary had not always been present in the Church. A form of repetitive prayer had developed over centuries. true, but the Rosary as we know it? No.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue. Ignorance of Church history is even worse.

 

[Lamafacaja]

I totally agree, also the original 15 Mystries of Faith coincide with the 15-promise’s of the Rosary.I can’t seperate one from the other.

Also thats another good point about Mass. And the idea of many not being physically able to attend. Today its my understanding that a Catholic Mass is on public TV daily in the morning for this very purpose. Though I don’t know the specifics to type here.

We just had this conversation the other day. Often I’ll stop by my mothers home to take her to Mass. I make an honest effort to do this weekly. She has a issue with her vision which makes it a bit more difficult for her to drive today. She just mentioned watching the Catholic Mass weekdays in the morning.

Yes, that’s true; it’s a blessing. It’s not the same as being at Mass, and it makes me sad miss receiving the Eucharist (so much!), but it’s better than no Mass at all. Even so, the Mass is often said at a time when I can’t watch. But the rosary can be kept in my pocket book, and I can pick it up any time I want.

I’d like to share a website on the rosary here. This website offers a short, one sentence meditation for each of the Aves.

 

[Lamafacaja]

Whether St. Dominic really received the rosary in an apparition, I don’t know. I certainly like the story and have much affection for it, just as I love the story of St. Christopher helping the Child Jesus over the water and St. Anthony preaching to the fish. I do believe these things are possible.

Whether or not St. Dominic received the rosary, he was a very holy man, and the Dominican Sisters that I know have certainly kept the rosary, and perhaps that’s what’s most important.

 

[thetruth0flife]

Another statement that is ‘Yes and No but mostly No’, and so which amounts to an untruth.

The Rosary had not always been present in the Church. A form of repetitive prayer had developed over centuries. true, but the Rosary as we know it? No.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue. Ignorance of Church history is even worse.

Thank you. Your point and the proof? God bless.

 

[DoxRox]

Whether St. Dominic really received the rosary in an apparition, I don’t know. I certainly like the story and have much affection for it, just as I love the story of St. Christopher helping the Child Jesus over the water and St. Anthony preaching to the fish. I do believe these things are possible.

Whether or not St. Dominic received the rosary, he was a very holy man, and the Dominican Sisters that I know have certainly kept the rosary, and perhaps that’s what’s most important.

True. I don’t understand the point of debating the rosary’s history in discussing the promises. Traditional Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, etc.) are up to our eyeballs in pious legends. Why not discuss all the ways that the promises have inspired great devotion instead?

 

[thetruth0flife]

True. I don’t understand the point of debating the rosary’s history in discussing the promises. Traditional Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, etc.) are up to our eyeballs in pious legends. Why not discuss all the ways that the promises have inspired great devotion instead?

True. I agree with both you. I don’t understand either. What matters is the results it gives you and if you really like it. I was simply defending the history and the Rosary itself, that’s all. God bless you.

 

[nickybr38]

You are inventing.

Thank you for your comments on this thread.

Personally I believe the promises are suspect at best. Jesus promised His followers that they would have food, they would have clothing, and they would inherit the kingdom of God (simplified here, I just finished reading the Gospels but I can’t possibly remember everything!). He did not teach us many of these things that are promised in these 15 promises of the Rosary. I agree when it was stated that ‘it sounds like a chain letter’.

We should pray the Rosary because we desire to be in prayer… because we desire to devote our time to seeking Him and because we would like Mary to pray for us. Not because we are seeking to obtain everything we ask for (btw, clearly the ‘promise’ I take most issue with. It is not about what WE seek, but what GOD wants), or glory in heaven, or any of these things.

If I pray the rosary and I do not receive the things I ask for, I will not be angry with God or Mary, because I am not praying expecting to receive anything. I believe Mary is faithful and will pray for me, I believe God is good but He is not a parent who spoils His children. Spoiled children become rotten adults.

That’s enough for me. Just knowing that Mary will pray for me and that God will hear me is more then enough. I need no guarantees, I need no immediate proof that I have been heard, I appreciate that I am being heard.

And also I’d like to second the comment that some of these promises lead to a Job-friends type situation; clearly you were not faithful enough. Yikes!

That said, I do pray the rosary so I guess that means I’m allowed to comment. And I suppose since the things I asked for weren’t given that I must not be faithful enough.

Edited to Add: A few weeks back I prayed to Saint Ambrose - just asking if he could pray for me because I need some help finding God. And just yesterday I randomly stumbled upon a prayer by Saint Ambrose that perfectly matched my need. Now there is a fellow who is faithful in his prayers.

 

[saveusfromhell]

the FIRST miracle the wedding feast at canna, the first time jesus performs a miracle he does so because his mother asks him, he tells her its not my time yet he still does it. honour your father and mother can’t imagine jesus breakin a comandment, i’m no theolgian but is he cleary not telling us to pray to our mother to intercede for us with him.

 

[nickybr38]

the FIRST miracle the wedding feast at canna, the first time jesus performs a miracle he does so because his mother asks him, he tells her its not my time yet he still does it. honour your father and mother can’t imagine jesus breakin a comandment, i’m no theolgian but is he cleary not telling us to pray to our mother to intercede for us with him.

Let’s just address the promise of receiving whatever you ask for.

Now, let’s say one particular person prays that they will become President of the United States. Say this person prays devoutly every single day and his intention everytime is to become the President of the United States. Say he is devout in every way and he desires to be the President so that he can be an active religious leader.

The 11th promise says you will obtain whatever you ask for.

Now, say this person is a citizen of Madagascar. On top of that, let’s say four others are praying with the exact same intention, and each are equally devout.

None of these who are praying will become President. Therefore the promise has not been fulfilled.

This is why I have issues with these promises. Perhaps if 11 didn’t exist I wouldn’t take such issue with them but as it stands I simply cannot propogate or repeat them.

 

[saveusfromhell]

nickybr38 i’m not arguing with you, i don’t believe in praying for material things at the end of the day it’s all about saving souls. ask mary to pray for your family friends and enimies etc etc.