The Rosary is NOT the Way

[JReducation]

I agree that it’s the official prayer of the Church. However, lay people are not required to pray it in any way shape or form. For lay members of the Church, it’s a devotion. One they are welcome to do or not do as they see fit.

The Liturgy of the Hours is never a devotion. It is ALWAYS liturgy right up there with mass, regardless of whether the person who prays it is bound to do so or not. The individual’s reason for praying the Liturgy of the Hours does not change what it is. It is liturgy.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[JReducation]

Exactly!

I’m talking more about people who recite the Rosary without an eye to deeper conversation with God, as if the words themselves were liberating. This is not prayer but merely the repetition of a pattern of words.

Ultimately, I think it’s more important to encourage people, especially those who are in some way straying from the faith, to direct conversation with God. And this is what requires creativity–the process of leading others to an appropriate understanding of prayer.

Personally, I find the Our Father to be a wonderful “teaching” prayer. It is a rich prayer which calls us to unite ourselves with Christ and humbly put ourselves in the position of Christ, as adopted sons and daughters of God.

Again, the Rosary is wonderful. Let’s just keep it in perspective.

I would strongly encourage you to take some courses on Mystical Theology, if you have not already done so. Rote prayer, such as the rosary, has proven to be an excellent tool for contemplative prayer. Also, the graces that come from the rosary are independent of the individual who prays it. Grace is not subject to human limitations.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[gilbs72]

I believe whatever is inadequate in our Rosary prayer, our Holy Mother will fill for us in her own prayers. As long as we attempt it or intend to pray the Rosary, as a child attempts to walk, our mother shall come and either guide us or carry us.

Mary will pray for us “mumblers” through her son to provide our needs. Just as she provided the wedding with wine from water through her son Jesus Christ.

 

[Archus]

Well said.

Ta very much.

 

[nicolep]

The Liturgy of the Hours is never a devotion. It is ALWAYS liturgy right up there with mass, regardless of whether the person who prays it is bound to do so or not. The individual’s reason for praying the Liturgy of the Hours does not change what it is. It is liturgy.

Fraternally,

JR

Again, I disagree. It doesn’t matter how many times you say it people, I’m not going to change my opinion. Yes, it is Liturgy. Is it impossible to have devotion to it though? It is impossible to have devotion to Mass? I guess so!

 

[RyanML]

This is a reaction post, a reaction to unseemly strands of thought that lurk beneath the surface of this forum.

Before someone bashes me and accuses me of heresy, let me just say that the Rosary is a wonderful devotion and a great entrance to the throne of God, in prayer.

However, just as all things, the Rosary can be abused. People may recite it, over and over–with such emphasis on the recitation of it and the promises granted to those who recite it, that they may lose track of the heart of our faith. All devotions are merely a means to God.

In particular, let us refrain from prescribing the Rosary as a cure-all for everyone struggling with their faith in whatever way, which I have seen happen several times on several different threads, usually coupled with a list of the promises granted to the reciters of the Rosary and a warning to those who recite it with fickleness. I promise you, many have entered heaven without ever reciting the Rosary. More than anything, let us remind people of the heart of our faith, for we are a holy people, saved not by our own words and deeds, but by the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

I agree the Rosary is a wonderful devotion, and I myself pray it often. But I also agree that it is not the only sure means of growing in the spiritual life. For me it is much more important to try and get to daily Mass and pray the LOTH and make meditation before getting to the Rosary. But again, everyone’s spirituality is different. The one thing we can not do is measure our devotion to the Blessed Mother by how many rosaries we pray. True devotion to Our Lady is in imitation. I love the Carmelite Marian spirituality, which seeks to imitate Mary’s spirit of contemplation and the practice of the presence of God. The Rosary, as well as other devotions, disposes us to deeper contemplation, but it is not an end in itself. God bless!

 

[RyanML]

Oh, and let’s not forget the importance of Lectio Divina I think there are so many devout and well meaning Catholics who will focus so much of their time and energy into praying rosaries that they forget about the very beneficial and more ancient practices of meditation, Divine Office, and Lectio Divina.

 

[water]

Divine Office, and Lectio Divina.

I actually wanted to know about this - the Divine Office and the Liturgy of the Hour. Are they different? which one is less expensive to buy? and which one I could use to pray throughout the day but it does not take so much time since I have to work?

Many thanks!

 

[RyanML]

I actually wanted to know about this - the Divine Office and the Liturgy of the Hour. Are they different? which one is less expensive to buy? and which one I could use to pray throughout the day but it does not take so much time since I have to work?

Many thanks!

The Liturgy of the Hours is just another name for the Divine Office. You can buy a single volume edition that excludes the daily readings for the Office of Readings or you can buy the complete four volume set. But the four volume is about 150.00 bucks so you may be better off with the single volume at 35.00. Now Lectio Divina is different. Lectio Divina is the practice of “praying the Scriptures” by reading Scripture and meditating on a single word or phrase that comes to you from that reading and then being silent and listening to God.

 

[water]

The Liturgy of the Hours is just another name for the Divine Office. You can buy a single volume edition that excludes the daily readings for the Office of Readings or you can buy the complete four volume set. But the four volume is about 150.00 bucks so you may be better off with the single volume at 35.00. Now Lectio Divina is different. Lectio Divina is the practice of “praying the Scriptures” by reading Scripture and meditating on a single word or phrase that comes to you from that reading and then being silent and listening to God.

Thank you Ryan. I know more about it now.

 

[brigid12]

I believe whatever is inadequate in our Rosary prayer, our Holy Mother will fill for us in her own prayers. As long as we attempt it or intend to pray the Rosary, as a child attempts to walk, our mother shall come and either guide us or carry us.

Mary will pray for us “mumblers” through her son to provide our needs. Just as she provided the wedding with wine from water through her son Jesus Christ.

 

[LilyM]

The Liturgy of the Hours is just another name for the Divine Office. You can buy a single volume edition that excludes the daily readings for the Office of Readings or you can buy the complete four volume set. But the four volume is about 150.00 bucks so you may be better off with the single volume at 35.00. Now Lectio Divina is different. Lectio Divina is the practice of “praying the Scriptures” by reading Scripture and meditating on a single word or phrase that comes to you from that reading and then being silent and listening to God.

Given that a) the Hail Mary is itself scriptural and b) the mysteries of the Rosary are either based on Gospel events or have appropriate scripture passages that are associated with them - one can certainly use the Rosary to meditate on perhaps a single word or phrase of scripture related to that mystery … a form of Lectio Divina if you will. and of course be silent and listen to God afterwards

 

[RyanML]

Given that a) the Hail Mary is itself scriptural and b) the mysteries of the Rosary are either based on Gospel events or have appropriate scripture passages that are associated with them - one can certainly use the Rosary to meditate on perhaps a single word or phrase of scripture related to that mystery … a form of Lectio Divina if you will. and of course be silent and listen to God afterwards

I wish all Catholics prayed the Rosary this way. I use to be involved in a Marian Movement of Priests Rosary group and the reverence with which these people prayed the Rosary was awesome! But in my experience, that is the exception, not the rule. I don’t know how many group rosaries i’ve participated in where it was like a race trying to keep up with the leader because they went so fast. Even to the point of distorting the words.

 

[JReducation]

Again, I disagree. It doesn’t matter how many times you say it people, I’m not going to change my opinion. Yes, it is Liturgy. Is it impossible to have devotion to it though? It is impossible to have devotion to Mass? I guess so!

Wait a minute. The word devotion here is being used in two different ways.

There is a difference between something that is a devotion and being devoted to something or feeling devotion toward something.

Church law is very clear, the Liturgy of the Hours is liturgy, not a devotion. Whether one is deovted to the Liturgy of the Hours or experiences devotion while praying it, is completely different.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Joannm]

Oh, and let’s not forget the importance of Lectio Divina I think there are so many devout and well meaning Catholics who will focus so much of their time and energy into praying rosaries that they forget about the very beneficial and more ancient practices of meditation, Divine Office, and Lectio Divina.

I was going to mentio Lectio Divina, but you beat me to it. I can think of no better way to enter into communion with our Lord, outside of the liturgy, than by engaging in meditation and contemplation through Lectio Divina.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

This is a reaction post, a reaction to unseemly strands of thought that lurk beneath the surface of this forum.

Before someone bashes me and accuses me of heresy, let me just say that the Rosary is a wonderful devotion and a great entrance to the throne of God, in prayer.

However, just as all things, the Rosary can be abused. People may recite it, over and over–with such emphasis on the recitation of it and the promises granted to those who recite it, that they may lose track of the heart of our faith. All devotions are merely a means to God.

In particular, let us refrain from prescribing the Rosary as a cure-all for everyone struggling with their faith in whatever way, which I have seen happen several times on several different threads, usually coupled with a list of the promises granted to the reciters of the Rosary and a warning to those who recite it with fickleness. I promise you, many have entered heaven without ever reciting the Rosary. More than anything, let us remind people of the heart of our faith, for we are a holy people, saved not by our own words and deeds, but by the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

This is offensive in many ways. Let me see if I missed something: People do not pray nor prescribe the Rosary according to YOUR standards.

First, you denigrate the Rosary as a means to get closer to Christ. “Oh, it’s not the ONLY way.” Maybe not—but according to whom?

Second, you ask us to refrain from prescribing it as a cure-all? The Rosary may have saved my life. Is that a better prescription than, oh, say, calling a help hotline? Or maybe I should not have prayed so many Rosaries. Maybe I have just deluded myself.

You dictate to us a rather lofty set of standards for how, when, and what to think.

While you may be well on your way to sainthood, and ‘know’ the ‘proper’ way to pray the Rosary, the rest of us poor rabble are mere sinners, myself right up there among them, and yes, mere sinners do become distracted at times, even during prayer. We fall short of praying the Rosary according to YOUR standards. But to this poor sinner, ANY Rosary prayed is better than none at all.

Lastly, I congratulate you on your ability to read minds and therefore know in what state each of us poor individuals prays the common, shopworn Rosary.

 

[CradleCath]

Saying the rosary can only be a positive in the spiritual life. It’s a wonderful prayer and devotion to God through Mary.

I agree with you. The rosary is so comprehensive. It encompasses so much of Catholicism. It takes an effort to say a rosary & a commitment of time. I think we are blessed, first for simply making the effort.

The rosary includes a prayer that gives glory to the Holy Mother of all of humanity, as well as asking for her intercession, “Pray for us sinners now & at the hour of our death”. We start with a statement of belief…the Creed. Before each decade we give glory to the Trinity. We pray the prayer taught to us by Jesus, Himself…the Lord’s prayer, not once…but seven times.Following that, we declare which mystery in the life of the Lord that we’re going to meditate on & **ask for help against distractions. **(That’s just something I do.) The rosary, imo., is about the most inclusive of prayers. Of course, it can be abused…as can those prayers we say when we’re just chatting with Our Lord. They too can become mindless repetition if we let them:

 "Thank you Father, for my health & happiness & that of my 
   family & loved ones. I ask your protection....blah, blah, blah   & on & on & ON". I've caught myself several times just rattling off the same words during my private time with God.

In other words, it not the prayer…
It’s the pray-ER.

 

[Yellow_Belle]

Before someone bashes me and accuses me of heresy, **let me just say that the Rosary is a wonderful devotion and a great entrance to the throne of God, in prayer. **
However, just as all things, the Rosary can be abused. People may recite it, over and over–with such emphasis on the recitation of it and the promises granted to those who recite it, that they may lose track of the heart of our faith. All devotions are merely a means to God.

In particular, let us refrain from prescribing the Rosary as a cure-all for everyone struggling with their faith in whatever way, which I have seen happen several times on several different threads, usually coupled with a list of the promises granted to the reciters of the Rosary and a warning to those who recite it with fickleness. I promise you, many have entered heaven without ever reciting the Rosary. More than anything, let us remind people of the heart of our faith, for we are a holy people, saved not by our own words and deeds, but by the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

I don’t see anything in the OP’s post that I would disagree with - and certainly nothing that would cause the level of offence some posters seem to be taking. (OK, the title wording is perhaps infelicitous but IMO if you want some really OTT subject titles, check out the Politics Forum )

So what has the OP said: that the Rosary is a wonderful devotion; that the Rosary can be abused; that the Rosary is not necessarily a helpful prayer-form for everyone or in every situation and for that reason we should be careful about giving it as a blanket recommendation. What is unreasonable or disrespectful about any of those statements?

I’ve known for many years that the Rosary is not for me - and this despite being raised in a devout Irish Catholic home . That said, I have nothing against it and have no problem joining in its public recitation, but it isn’t a part of my private prayer life. It was Lectio Divina that brought me back home and the Divine Office helps to keep me here. Despite their efficacy for me, I would never recommend either as an unfailing help on the spiritual journey. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[fix]

This is offensive in many ways. Let me see if I missed something: People do not pray nor prescribe the Rosary according to YOUR standards.

First, you denigrate the Rosary as a means to get closer to Christ. “Oh, it’s not the ONLY way.” Maybe not—but according to whom?

Second, you ask us to refrain from prescribing it as a cure-all? The Rosary may have saved my life. Is that a better prescription than, oh, say, calling a help hotline? Or maybe I should not have prayed so many Rosaries. Maybe I have just deluded myself.

You dictate to us a rather lofty set of standards for how, when, and what to think.

While you may be well on your way to sainthood, and ‘know’ the ‘proper’ way to pray the Rosary, the rest of us poor rabble are mere sinners, myself right up there among them, and yes, mere sinners do become distracted at times, even during prayer. We fall short of praying the Rosary according to YOUR standards. But to this poor sinner, ANY Rosary prayed is better than none at all.

Lastly, I congratulate you on your ability to read minds and therefore know in what state each of us poor individuals prays the common, shopworn Rosary.

Yes, and I would wonder when does Mary ever not bring people closer to Jesus when asked?

 

[Galnextdoor]

This is a reaction post, a reaction to unseemly strands of thought that lurk beneath the surface of this forum…
However, just as all things, the Rosary can be abused. People may recite it, over and over–with such emphasis on the recitation of it and the promises granted to those who recite it, that they may lose track of the heart of our faith. All devotions are merely a means to God.
In particular, let us refrain from prescribing the Rosary as a cure-all for everyone struggling with their faith in whatever way, which I have seen happen several times on several different threads, usually coupled with a list of the promises granted to the reciters of the Rosary and a warning to those who recite it with fickleness.

I read the post that you found “unseemly”. It appears that you took something out of context and used it to vent your personal feelings about the rosary.

The question posed was “Is Faith a Choice?” The person who wrote the post you are upset about, wrote a very long post that ended up going into two posts.

**She stated that if a person

a) believes what the bible says
b) pursues God with his or her whole heart by loving ones neighbor to the utmost
c) follows the Catholic Church religiously
d) prays the rosary/does things for Jesus through Mary according to the “True Devotion to Mary” by St. Louis de Munfort

then one will grow in accordance to God’s will.**

I don’t see where you get the idea she was prescribing the rosary as a cure all. The second half of her post contained the promises of Mary to people who say the rosary and a quote.

I don’t understand what is so unseemly about this post.

The Church teaches that Mary is the Mediatrix of all Grace (God’s life in us.) She is the co-redemptrix and great intercessor on behalf of God’s children. You can’t get to heaven if you understand this about Mary and refuse to honor her.

The most powerful form of prayer, of course, is the mass. (It contains all four types of prayer and the Eucharist.) According to my priest and the catechism he uses, the Rosary is the second most powerful form of prayer. There are four kinds of prayer:
1)adoration/praise is the highest form because it is completely selfless and gives glory to God, 2)Thanksgiving is second because we are expressing our gratitude and praise to God, 3) Reparation because we are sorry and begging God for mercy, and 4) prayer of petitions is ranked last because we hope to get something in return for a prayers. The reason the rosary is the second most powerful form of prayer is because it encompasses all four kinds of prayer.

Mother Teresa and Mother Angelica both said that when you struggle with spiritual dryness, feelings like your prayers are worthless or meaningless, that is when you gain the most grace from God. It takes more effort and determination to continue to pray.

As for the rosary being a repetitious pattern, think about the parable Jesus told about the man whose neighbor had late night visitors, the neighbor came knocking at the door while the man was asleep. He said the man finally answered the door, not because he cared about whether his neighbor wanted something, but because he grew tired of listening to the man knocking. God wants us to be repetitious in our prayers to Him. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t have given the rosary to us.