The Rosary - What is Not Understood?

[Kliska]

Does anyone believe that Peter or Paul sat and said the Rosary on a set of beads (after Mary’s passing or assumption of course)? Obviously, from particular protestant perspective that would be a fairly important aspect to all of this.

 

[Reuben_J]

Funny, I thought Mary is their contemporary. … but I suppose they did ask for Mary’s intercession as they also prayed for each other. LOL

 

[Reuben_J]

I understand, but shouldn’t one go and pray to God and spend as much time with Him as one’s conscience desires? I can spend three hours with my God but only because my love for Him. How is pre-planning “tomorrow I will say [X] amount of prayers followed by [Y] number of prayers the next day.” While directing them to Mary beneficial?

Yes. What I am saying, it is just a form of prayer. There is no one prayer that is the all true prayers except perhaps for the Lord’s Prayer since the Lord says so. Other than that, there are many types of prayers and one may pray according to what is most suitable to one’s disposition and preference.

Besides there are different prayers too. You can have adoration, contrition, thanksgiving or supplication genre of prayers. Btw that are best remembered in the acronym ACTS.

You can have an hour of the Rosary while other only say it for fifteen minutes. It is how you pray it. Not all of it is ’ directing it to Mary’, there are different sections in the Rosary.

Just to save time, I repost this again, which I posted in the Spirituality section.
Reuben J:

Praying the Rosary should be done slowly, do not rush them.

You can examine yourself after hearing each mystery.

Example:
The second Sorrowful Mystery - The Scourging at the Pillar.

You can stop a while to reflect.
Reflection: Jesus accepted all the humiliation and torture silently and patiently. Do we when given similar situation? Search for such situation in our lives. And then offer to the Father whatever pain, suffering and sickness that we have to undergo ourselves. We can also offer others’ suffering whom we may know to the Lord too and to pray for peace, comfort or deliverance.

While reciting the Hail Marys - we can talk to Mary, perhaps like the angel did and meditate what it must be like for her to be chosen and given such great responsibility to bear our Savior. How terribly traumatic it must be for her to see her son being whipped and tortured. She did not have it any better than us too. But for all these she was faithful to the end and the final reward for her would be certainly her Son’s victory and crowned King and she a Queen Mother. Ask for her intercession since now she is the Mother of God in heaven; ask for her influence on her Son, etc, etc. Do not feel silly about it even if you think it is.

You can have lots of things that you may want to offer up to God and to Mary for her help.

 

[sousley]

I’m not denying its history or the amount partaking, but I fail to see its benefit. I should pray based on only where my heart is at and not a pre-set amount of prayers. That’s not to say the rosary is not sincere, but I don’t see its benefit over approaching (God) for prayers without a set time spent and set amount of things said.

I don’t mean to give the impression that I’m against contemplative prayer; quite the opposite, it is very necessary. I’m not sure this is the answer you’re looking for but first, devotions such as the Lord’s Prayer provide structure . It teaches us how to pray, how to worship, how to ask, what to ask. It aligns our mind to focus in a certain way. Now, our contemplative prayer will naturally follow within that alignment. The beauty of balance protects us from praying for things that might not be in our best interest, for example, and as such possibly protect us from anxieties. Have you ever heard someone pray for something and wonder, “why would you even pray for that?” (maybe that’s my own cynicism )
Communally, we never strive to separate the Body of Christ from its Head. Having a personal relationship is important but we are also members of a greater community. We are only a strong, militant Church as a community. When we place too much focus on “me and Jesus”, we lose the body that Christ calls us to be. He calls us to be “One” people, but not each to be “one” person. So we need balance; to be a devotional community and also have a contemplative prayer life that is complementary, but not exclusive apart from the other.

 

[adf417]

Does anyone believe that Peter or Paul sat and said the Rosary on a set of beads (after Mary’s passing or assumption of course)? Obviously, from particular protestant perspective that would be a fairly important aspect to all of this.

Hi Kliska, I don’t think they prayed the rosary at all but the use of prayer beads have been around for a long time - so, who knows??? I also don’t think they wore crosses around their neck either but again, who knows???

Peace!!!

 

[Kliska]

Funny, I thought Mary is their contemporary. … but I suppose they did ask for Mary’s intercession as they also prayed for each other. LOL

That’s why I said after her passing or assumption. I don’t believe it is Tradition that she outlived all the Apostles?

 

[wmscott]

Does anyone believe that Peter or Paul sat and said the Rosary on a set of beads (after Mary’s passing or assumption of course)? Obviously, from particular protestant perspective that would be a fairly important aspect to all of this.

Does anyone believe that Peter or Paul held alter calls and revivals??? this can go back and forth all day. the point is that the Rosary is rooted in Sacred Scripture, the meditations “All” except two are focused directly on Jesus.

**The Meditation Layer **

Each decade of the Rosary focuses on a section of Scripture as a meditation. These are called the mysteries. Out of 20 meditation decades (5 are done each day) 18 of them follow Jesus through the Bible and two are related to Mary (Assumption and Coronation).
Meditations are 20 Mysteries:

18 Excerpts from the Bible (0.9) + 1 Based on the Bible (Coronation) (0.05) + 1 From the catholic tradition (Assumption) (0.05).
That is: • Jesus 90% • Mary 10% • (95% is right out of the Bible)

**“Joyful Mysteries”(Mon & Sat) **

First Decade: The Annunciation of Gabriel to Mary (Luke 1:26-38)
Second Decade: The Visitation of Mary to Elizabeth (Luke 1:39-56)
Third Decade: The Birth of Our Lord (Luke 2:1-21)
Fourth Decade: The Presentation of Our Lord (Luke 2:22-38)
Fifth Decade: The Finding of Our Lord in the Temple (Luke 2:41-52)

**“Luminous Mysteries”(Thurs.) **

First Decade: The Baptism of Our Lord in the River Jordan (Matthew 3:13-16)
Second Decade: The Wedding at Cana, when Christ manifested Himself (Jn 2:1-11)
Third Decade: The Proclamation of the Kingdom of God (Mark 1:14-15)
Fourth Decade: The Transfiguration of Our Lord (Matthew 17:1-8)
Fifth Decade: The Last Supper, when Our Lord gave us the Holy Eucharist (Mt 26)

**“Sorrowful Mysteries”(Tues & Fri) **

First Decade: The Agony of Our Lord in the Garden (Matthew 26:36-56)
Second Decade: Our Lord is Scourged at the Pillar (Matthew 27:26)
Third Decade: Our Lord is Crowned with Thorns (Matthew 27:27-31)
Fourth Decade: Our Lord Carries the Cross to Calvary (Matthew 27:32)
Fifth Decade: The Crucifixion of Our Lord (Matthew 27:33-56)

**“Glorious Mysteries”(Wed & Sun) **

First Decade: The Glorious Resurrection of Our Lord (John 20:1-29)
Second Decade: The Ascension of Our Lord (Luke 24:36-53)
Third Decade: The Descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2:1-41)
Fourth Decade: The Assumption of Mary into Heaven (Sg 2:2,10-11)
Fifth Decade: The Coronation of Mary as Queen of Heaven and Earth (Gn 3:15a) (Jdt 13:18) (Jdt 15:9) (Rv 12:1) (Sir 24:4) (Sir 14:9) (Cor 4:17) (Lk 8:21)(Gal 4:19)

The above is an excerpt of the attached pdf

The attached document is a really good break down of the Rosary and may help in understanding it if one is so inclined to really read it.It is not my document and I do not know who the author is but all credit is hie/her due

 

[Nicea325]

Originally Posted by Kliska
Along with what Jon points out, many of us have a “thing” against rote prayer, repetitive prayer, the use of counting beads, directing prayer toward anyone other that God even if just asking for intercession, etc… those of us that feel that way see these things as not being biblical. If you want a different protestant perspective written up in an article, you can look it up on “Got Questions?” as well.

Is that why Jesus repeated his prayer to His Father at the garden? Repitition is not the issue.

 

[Kliska]

Hi Kliska, I don’t think they prayed the rosary at all but the use of prayer beads have been around for a long time - so, who knows??? I also don’t think they wore crosses around their neck either but again, who knows???

Peace!!!

I agree, and I’m just explaining that is one idea that some protestants hold, the whole “back to the Bible” ideology. And in this case, I believe even Tradition wouldn’t include the rosary dated back to the time of the earliest church. It sometimes boils down to earliest practice for protestants.

 

[Reuben_J]

That’s why I said after her passing or assumption. I don’t believe it is Tradition that she outlived all the Apostles?

Not sure about Peter and Paul. They were in Rome and probably martyred much earlier. Tradition has it that she was taken care by the apostle John in Ephesus who might outlive her but the other apostles did not live long after the ressurection as they were mostly killed. Only the apostle John lived a natural long life. Rosary is a type of prayer that was popularised by the Dominicans (a Priestly discipline) many centuries later. But it is just a prayer. It is not liturgy, Bible study or doctrine.

 

[prayerboy]

…when one says “nowhere in the Bible is the Rosary” I typically respond with, “That’s very true, however the Bible is found in the Rosary”.

 

[Kliska]

Not sure about Peter and Paul. They were in Rome and probably martyred much earlier. Tradition has it that she was taken care by the apostle John in Ephesus who might outlive her.

Interesting, thank you!

Rosary is a type of prayer that was popularised by the Dominicans (a Priestly discipline) many centuries later. But it is just a prayer. It is not liturgy, Bible study or doctrine.

Understood, but if the OP is wondering about certain protestant reactions to the idea or practice of the rosary, that also explains it.

 

[wmscott]

…when one says “nowhere in the Bible is the Rosary” I typically respond with, “That’s very true, however the Bible is found in the Rosary”.

True such as:

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. (Luke 1:28)
Blessed art thou among women (Luke 1:41-42a ,Luke 1:48) ,
Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus (Luke 1:42b)
Holy Mary, Mother of God (Luke 1:43)
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen

 

[Steveabrous]

Does anyone believe that Peter or Paul sat and said the Rosary on a set of beads (after Mary’s passing or assumption of course)? Obviously, from particular protestant perspective that would be a fairly important aspect to all of this.

Kliska, I have read many of your posts on this thread and I would like to respond to your concerns.

First off your right Peter and Paul did not pray the rosary. In fact I doubt the rosary was given to st. Benedict as legend has it.

Several hundred years ago monks used to pray all 150 pslams every day, they strung beads together to help keep count. The laity (regular people) wished to mimick the monks but most could not read so they would say 150 our Fathers (the lords prayer) instead. This developed into the 150 divided in to 3- 50’s each 50 with 5 10s called a decade with 1 our father and 10 hail mary’s then certain aspects of the life of Jesus ,and to a lesser extent Mary’s, was assigned to each decade. It is something that developed over time.

When we pray the rosary we are not praying TO Mary in the modern understanding of the phrase “Pray to”. We are asking her to pray for us and with us. Just like you might ask your congregation to pray for you and with you for a particular need. You see we Catholics believe that a person who has died and gone to heaven is alive and not dead as our lord said in Mark 12:27:

"He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. "

We believe that such a person is as much a member of the church as they were when they were on earth. In fact more so. And just like we can ask the members of the church on earth to pray for us and with us we can do the same with those members in heaven.

As far as the Rosary being repetitive. It is not the vain repetition Jesus warned about in Matthew 6;7:

“And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.”

You see in ancient times Pagans believed there were many gods. Even more gods then humans, and many gods no one knew about. They thought that if the babbled on saying jiberish long enough they would stumble on a word from some god’s language, therefore obligating that god to grant a favor.

They rosary is not a long drawn out prayer. it is several prayers said in succession. There is a huge difference.

 

[Kliska]

Does anyone believe that Peter or Paul held alter calls and revivals???

lol I don’t really hold to them either, except in the true sense of revival that is recorded in scripture of a return to the Lord and His ways.

Is that why Jesus repeated his prayer to His Father at the garden? Repitition is not the issue.

Repetition isn’t all of the issue, but it is part of it. There is either rote repetition for the sake of repetition, or repetition for the sake of focus, emphasis, etc…

Once something is repeated again and again in a droning or chanting manner, it is very easy for the human mind to go into an altered state. Some see this as spiritually beneficial, some don’t.

 

[Reuben_J]

Interesting, thank you!

Understood, but if the OP is wondering about certain protestant reactions to the idea or practice of the rosary, that also explains it.

I understand you then, the Protestant’s perspective. What do you think of my posts #20 and #23. I came very much from such experience but realized that prayers are never meant to be confined to only one method. They say prayer is a bridge to God; God is just a prayer away; prayer is communication with God; it is a relationship with God, et al.

 

[HeadingBackHome]

As the only Catholic in my family my impression of Lutherans (used to be one myself) is that they generally know little or nothing about the Holy Rosary and the ones knowing it are as Jon has stated sceptical to the second part of the Hail Marys and Salve Regina and other prayers to Mary.
Lutherans do believe in the communion of Saints and are in some ways closer to the church than most other directions of Protestantism.

To start basic: We do not as much praying to the saints as we do talk to them.
All of the saints and of course Mama Mary are alive in Christ as are we.
We can communicate with them becouse we’re united in Christ.
To ask a friend or two on earth to pray for you feels quite natural doesn’t it?
It’s really the same thing when we are praying/ talking to Mary, we are just asking her if she can pray on our behalf to Jesus The King.

When we’re praying the Holy Rosary we worship God with Mary so to say.
The Hail Mary’s are of course prayers to Mary, but it also functions as some sort of a timer for how long we should meditate on a mystery (certain aspect of Our Lords life)

The purpose of the Rosary are to bring us ever closer to Jesus and Mary through meditation of their lives.

When that’s being said its worth knowing that the Holy Rosary is not mandatory for us as Catholics it’s a private devotion which we can gain a lot from in our lives as Christians.

 

[Reuben_J]

Once something is repeated again and again in a droning or chanting manner, it is very easy for the human mind to go into an altered state. Some see this as spiritually beneficial, some don’t.

Oh my God, and I also know that instantaneous prayer from the heart can be really repetitive.

 

[Reuben_J]

double posts

 

[Millie123]

I’m not denying its history or the amount partaking, but I fail to see its benefit. I should pray based on only where my heart is at and not a pre-set amount of prayers. That’s not to say the rosary is not sincere, but I don’t see its benefit over approaching (God) for prayers without a set time spent and set amount of things said.

Sit back for 5 minutes and meditate the 5th sorrowful mystery…The Crucifixion, Jesus’ death on the cross. Think about Jesus being nailed on the cross for your sins, after he had to carry his own cross up to calvary to die. Think of him being taunted at the time of his death. Think about him forgiving the good thief, and then offering up his body for your salvation. Just take a couple of minutes to yourself and meditate on this.

This is what the rosary is, it’s a meditation on the life of Jesus. It’s is praying the gospels.
His Coming is meditated on in the Joyful mysteries
His Ministry is meditated on in the Luminous mysteries
His passion and death in the Sorrowful mysteries
His Resurrection and the start of the church in the Glorious mysteries

For me personally the benefit that I have received from praying the Rosary daily. Is that it gives me assistance with fighting against my spiritual dryness. Which has been a huge problem for me that I have greatly struggled with in the past. Taking time out of my day to meditate on Jesus helps to keep my faith in him active. It also has helped me to fight against sins that I’ve been struggling to overcome for years