The Rosary - What is Not Understood?

[Reuben_J]

Why don’t we simply to straight to God? We do. But sometimes we simply ask Mary and/or the Saints to pray for us too. We do this because Jesus himself said that sometimes the Father does not hear our prayers when we are pure of heart or in a state of Grace. So we ask Mary and the Saints to pray for us too.

Also because ‘we are church’, like my Protestant friend (who incidentally is from a Baptist Church) would say. The saints, those who are alive and those who are in heaven, are in one communion. It is not less that when I ask Angelica, an intercessory prayer leader from the next parish to pray for me (when I was admitted in the hospital).

Protestants that argue against asking the saints for prayer do not believe that they are in one cmmunion with us, the living. At least that’s how I understand the reason why they are against this form of prayer.

 

[House_Harkonnen]

Sure all prayer is good. We use a rosary to pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet too. There is a separate one but only a bead difference. You might like the addition of the Luminous Mysteries as well. I don’t see why you can’t swap the Fatima Prayer if you want or just “have mercy on me, a sinner”.

I really feel very uncomfortable calling on and focusing on Mary. Can I meditate on the mysteries while saying the Jesus Prayer or Lords Prayer?

 

[Kliska]

This is a good, honest question.

I’m not opposed to asking Mary for intercession (again, if I personally believed it possible) based on your question. So I can imagine that if I did believe it possible I would ask her to pray for me. I wouldn’t close my eyes and ask tons and tons of times in a repetitious way because that’s not how we ask others to pray for us. When I ask someone to pray for me I simply ask that person to pray for me.

You have a point there. lol Too, I think that there are various prayers to various Saints that do indeed at the very least seem to be attributing some type of responsive power, other than intercession, to the person being prayed to or asked.

 

[Millie123]

I really feel very uncomfortable calling on and focusing on Mary. Can I meditate on the mysteries while saying the Jesus Prayer or Lords Prayer?

You may be interested in praying the Chaplet of the Precious blood. This is very similar to the Rosary Instead of Hail Mary’s this chaplet is filled with Our Fathers. 33 to be exact one for each year of Jesus’ life and in this chaplet you meditate on the seven mysteries of Jesus’ life in which he had shed his blood.
catholicdoors.com/prayers/chaplets/chap09.htm

 

[Bran_Stark]

I have no quarrel with the actual texts of the Rosary. The Pater Noster, the Gloria Patri, the Credo in Deum, and even the Ave Maria are fine prayers, in themselves. However, the specific arrangement of those prayers called “the Rosary” holds no attraction for me. The whole arrangement of beads and “decades” and “mysteries,” as well as the name “Rosary” itself, just strikes me as kind of too sentimental and feminine, if that makes any sense.

 

[hsmomforlife]

I need to preface this with: "I’m not a priest (obviously!LOL), nor a theologian, nor an apologist…and I haven’t played one on TV nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn last night )
When I pray the Rosary, I think of the Hail Marys as a way of keeping my focus on the person who was closest to Jesus and selected by God for Her role in Salvation, so that if nothing else, I focus on the Mother of Jesus, while I meditate on a particular Bible passage related to the life of Jesus. (Mary sure beats wondering what the score is on the Bears game!) While I am saying a Hail Mary, if my mind wanders from the Mystery I am meditating on, hopefully it won’t wander far and (through my Divine Mother’s intercession) it will stumble into the lap of Mary, my Mother, who will gently guide my mind, thoughts and prayers, back to Him. That’s what I mean when I say that I pray to Jesus through Mary…I need all the help I can get and who is better to help me than the the Mother who loves Jesus SO much!
Between St Louis de Montfort (even the book targeted at middle school aged kids by Mary Fabian Windeatt) and the book 33 Days to Morning Glory…I have a much better and deeper understanding of Marian devotion!

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Along with what Jon points out, many of us have a “thing” against rote prayer, repetitive prayer, the use of counting beads, directing prayer toward anyone other that God even if just asking for intercession, etc… those of us that feel that way see these things as not being biblical. If you want a different protestant perspective written up in an article, you can look it up on “Got Questions?” as well.

Well here I’ll address the intercession. Prayer to Saints is not the same as Prayer to God,
as the latter is far more intimate. Saints in Heaven are so full of love and are always listen-
ing. If you go to a church, doesn’t have a prayer line, like a clip-board & paper on which our
intentions can be read, and we all pray together? That is intercession. Ask a friend to pray
for you? That is intercession.

Such is essentially the same thing when asking Mary to pray for you.

 

[sousley]

I really feel very uncomfortable calling on and focusing on Mary. Can I meditate on the mysteries while saying the Jesus Prayer or Lords Prayer?

Actually, you kind of hit the nail on the head, as the story goes. In 800 or so, to imitate the sounds of the monks chanting the 150 psalms in the monastery, the suggestion was made to the lay townspeople in Ireland to pray 150 Our Fathers instead. Later times led to 150 “praises of Jesus” composed out of the psalms, then Angelic Salutations (Hail Mary) later and eventually was compiled into the form we have now. These were all just aids to help the lay people in devotional prayer as they did not have psalters and many could not read anyway.

 

[sousley]

You may be interested in praying the Chaplet of the Precious blood. This is very similar to the Rosary Instead of Hail Mary’s this chaplet is filled with Our Fathers. 33 to be exact one for each year of Jesus’ life and in this chaplet you meditate on the seven mysteries of Jesus’ life in which he had shed his blood.
catholicdoors.com/prayers/chaplets/chap09.htm

That’s an awesome suggestion!

 

[Kliska]

Well here I’ll address the intercession. Prayer to Saints is not the same as Prayer to God,
as the latter is far more intimate. Saints in Heaven are so full of love and are always listen-
ing. If you go to a church, doesn’t have a prayer line, like a clip-board & paper on which our
intentions can be read, and we all pray together? That is intercession. Ask a friend to pray
for you? That is intercession.

Such is essentially the same thing when asking Mary to pray for you.

Many protestants are hesitant to concede this, for there is not really evidence of this in scripture. Praying to Mary isn’t literally the same because she has indeed passed over, she isn’t currently living on this earth in physical form. Even if the bodily assumption is granted from our perspective, that wouldn’t really change anything.

So, I truly do respect the idea of asking a saint in Heaven to pray for you, I don’t really accept that it is exactly the same as asking someone standing beside you to pray as they are on the same plane of existence. We tend to believe both in the single mediator and single intercessor with one target and all 3 Persons of the Trinity fill those spots in supernatural communications. We don’t have examples of prayers to saints that are in Heaven in scripture; no one praying to St. Stephen, for example.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

To think, “I’m going to ask Mary [X] amount of times” I don’t see how this is beneficial or sincere. How tracking how many times I am going to pray somehow helps my prayer seems superstitious to me.

You find it too systematic? I believe by design, the Rosary is reflecting the number of Psalms, remembering that numbers are to an extent significant, even in Christianity.

Although being Roman Catholic, I do once and a while practice dzikr (Remembrance),
saying 33 Glory to God, 33 Praise to God, & 33 God is the Greatest, ending with one
No god except God. A little unorthodox, but go with me on this, Three Sets of Prayers
concluding with a beautiful monotheistic affirmation (not necessarily Unitarian), which
reminds me of the Trinity*, Three Persons in the One Being of God. Plus “33” reminds
me of Jesus, who had INCARNATED for 33 years before his death and resurrection.

Numbers are symbolic, it isn’t all superstition, for how long was Jonah in the
whale? THREE DAYS. How long did Jesus lay in the tomb? THREE DAYS!!!

*And no, I don’t take what
reminds me of the Trinity
as perfectly literal, that
would be partialism.​

 

[Reuben_J]

I really feel very uncomfortable calling on and focusing on Mary. Can I meditate on the mysteries while saying the Jesus Prayer or Lords Prayer?

Sure you can. They are all praying the Bible.

Say, The Fifth Joyful Mystery - the finding of the child Jesus in the Temple.

Example:
The Lord’s Prayer

Our Father, … God is our Father. He will give good thing to his children, …

Thou art in heaven, …. God is in heaven, of heaven and he has reserved a room for us there, …

Hallowed thy name, … therefore His name is to be praised, to be made holy, …

Thy Kingdom come. … His rule shall prevail, …

Thy will be done on earth, … His plan and will, shall come to pass on earth, …

As it is in heaven, just like it is in his heavenly kingdom, ….

Give us this day our daily bread, … asking God to give us our daily needs, spiritually and physically, …

And forgive us our trespasses, asking God to forgive our sin, wrongdoing, inequity, ….

As we forgive those who trespass against us, telling God that we will forgive those who hurt us, those who are difficult to forgive. We can name that person (s) and ask God’s help that we are able to forgive just like we are being forgiven, …

Let us not into temptation, *asking God to help us against sin and if possible not to let us into a situation where we are tested. And tell him what those situations may be, …
*
But deliver us from evil. … Asking God to help us to be strong that we may not sin, that we overcome our sinful way, shortcomings and inequity. Asking God to intervene, to help us from the bondages that we may be in, from the oppression and the attack of the Evil One…

Amen. Yes, Lord, let it be and according to your will.

The Hail Mary
Hail Mary, calling on Mary, just as Gabriel did and using the same form of greeting. If Gabriel, the archangel of God can greet her in this manner, surely it is not wrong for us to do the same.

Full of grace …that she is given copious grace, in anticipating for her to bear the Son of God who is without sin.

The Lord is with thee … God is affirming her, with her, chooses her, …

Thou art amongst women, … among all the women in history she is the most blessed …

And blessed is the fruit of thy womb …and hail her child that is being conceived in her womb, not any other women’s wombs. From her flesh, her Son will be born who will be the savior of the world …

Jesus. … Emmanuel, God with us, the name above all other names, …

Holy Mary,* … She is holy, like all of us when God chose us and we do according to His word …*

Mother of God, …Mary is the mother of Jesus, true man and true God, one in being with the Father …

Pray for us, sinners, … Asking Mary to pray for us then, we, who are sinners that God may look kindly upon us, …

Now and at the hour of our death,* … that Mary continues to pray for us unceasingly until the time of our death, …*

Amen. Let it be but according to the will of God.

How do we reflect of this mystery – the finding of child Jesus in the temple?

The Bible tells us that the parents were quite worried and Mary said, “Son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been terribly worried trying to find you.” (Lk 2:28)

It is unconceivable that anyone of us can talk to Jesus in that manner but Mary did because she is his mother and like all mothers do. … But imagine her relief to find her son once again. Could we may have similar experience in our lives? Have we lost something – our precious possession, our desire and aspiration or even Jesus? Could we have lost Jesus in our live sometimes? Can we ask Mary to pray for us that we may find him again, just like how she and Joseph found him? There are many things we can meditate on based solely on this mystery.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

I understand, but shouldn’t one go and pray to God and spend as much time with Him as one’s conscience desires? I can spend three hours with my God but only because my love for Him. How is pre-planning “tomorrow I will say [X] amount of prayers followed by [Y] number of prayers the next day.” While directing them to Mary beneficial?

Numbers are symbolic, not always systematic.
Consider this: I ask you to pray for me. How is
that so different from asking Mary to pray? She
isn’t dead, but alive in Heaven, part of the Body
of Jesus, which cannot be separated, not even
by death, so is includes ALL BELIEVERS.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

I’m not denying its history or the amount partaking, but I fail to see its benefit. I should pray based on only where my heart is at and not a pre-set amount of prayers. That’s not to say the rosary is not sincere, but I don’t see its benefit over approaching (God) for prayers without a set time spent and set amount of things said.

It isn’t only prayer, it’s also meditation, but not the Hindu/Buddha kind of emptying the mind,
but rather loading it up with contemplation on the life and mission of Jesus Christ. Is that so
terrible while at the same time asking Mary to draw you closer to Jesus? Again: While con-
templating the Gospel?

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Does anyone believe that Peter or Paul sat and said the Rosary on a set of beads (after Mary’s passing or assumption of course)? Obviously, from particular protestant perspective that would be a fairly important aspect to all of this.

I don’t fully agree, but that is an interesting point; however Peter and Paul did not have the
New Testament or buildings constructed for the purpose of worship. They just had the Old
Testament, a bunch of letters scattered around the young Christian world, and the houses
of Roman citizens which the wives would allow the early Christians to gather in while the
husband was out working.

We now have more opportunity to allow our spiritual practices to develop.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Funny, I thought Mary is their contemporary. … but I suppose they did ask for Mary’s intercession as they also prayed for each other. LOL

Oh-Yeah!

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

…when one says “nowhere in the Bible is the Rosary” I typically respond with, “That’s very true, however the Bible is found in the Rosary”.

Which brings us back to the biblical numerology - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - “Consider David & Goliath,
how many stones did David use? Five. How many cubits were the gallows from which the wicked
Haman hung? Fifty. How many Psalms? One Hundred & Fifty. Consider even Genesis 3 : 15 …
All Rosary Numbers. The Bible so clearly prefigures the Rosary and the use of it against the Devil.”

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

The simple way of trying to explain is that no, most protestants would not agree because we don’t see saying a rote prayer on the beads in scripture. We definitely see the words that are said (for the most part) in scripture, but not the technique, target (praying to Mary instead of God, or asking Mary to pray for us), timing, etc…

I would also point out that we do pray the form, or in the manner of the “Our Father” daily, and many strive to pray without ceasing with our lives, thoughts, words, faith, manner, etc… So it comes as a bit harsh to be denigrated by putting us lower in some regard than the prayer life of muslims praying to Allah. But, no worries, I understand your perspective.

Grace and Peace!

No rote prayer? That’s memorized prayer, right? We have the psalms. Jesus gave us the
Lord’s Prayer. The beads mean nothing (as far as I am aware). If you are good with your
fingers or can even keep mental count of your prayers (though the latter takes away from
contemplation on Jesus), then you don’t need the beads. I must correct you on the last
statement in the first paragraph, for when you say “Mary instead of God,” it calls on us
to never ask our friends or family to pray for us. This differentiating between Praying to
Mary, Saints, or Angels and Praying to God is very necessary, I think.

 

[Reuben_J]

I agree, and they can often turn that way even if we say a similar prayer say before we go to sleep. If we aren’t careful (“even” us protestants lol) easily slip into vain prayer.

REPETITION!!!

Exactly. No matter how differently can we word our prayers, eventually they would be just about the same things. Words are limited in expression and so is our ability to always say something different.

Just how many times we pray, " I just want to thank you and praise you Lord," for example. Probably I would just start using that almost in all my prayers and it is not much less repetitive. What different is it when I say the Lord’s prayer which also can describe what I mean to convey and thus becomes my own prayer from the heart?

 

[dronald]

Numbers are symbolic, not always systematic.
Consider this: I ask you to pray for me. How is
that so different from asking Mary to pray? She
isn’t dead, but alive in Heaven, part of the Body
of Jesus, which cannot be separated, not even
by death, so is includes ALL BELIEVERS.

Believing that symbolism can somehow benefit a prayer is superstitious though. If your argument is that we should pray [X] amount of times based on symbolism as if it’s somehow beneficial then you’re being very superstitious.

Again, and I want to make this clear for anyone who joins in late; I’m not saying it’s bad, I’m saying I don’t see any benefit.