The Rosary - What is Not Understood?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Judas_Thaddeus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I think “time” is an important element to prayer. God never tires of hearing us. Much of the Psalms involves us telling God what He has done for us - we may be weary, we may be at a loss for words but we can still offer our time in praise and thankfulness. When we acknowledge the Mother of God, and tell of our love for her we are also thanking God for giving us His son, incarnate through the Virgin birth. Pray without ceasing (I Thes. 5:17)
 
So then you would say that the RCIA process is closer to what the Bible says than altar calls? My point is that Catholics say it’s not in the Bible, but I’m just not getting it.

This could be true, but remember what the Bible explicitly says in Acts 2:

37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do? "

38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Not sure what that proves. If you are trying to compare what happened on that very special Day of Pentecost with weekly altar calls, I am a little taken aback. I have seen too many people get excited and do altar calls only to fall away within a week or two when that “burning in the bosom” fades away
 
Not sure what that proves. If you are trying to compare what happened on that very special Day of Pentecost with weekly altar calls, I am a little taken aback. I have seen too many people get excited and do altar calls only to fall away within a week or two when that “burning in the bosom” fades away
No doubt this is possible considering Jesus’s parable of the sower, but it’s not inevitable.
 
Agrred. But then that supports the point made by my fellow Catholic.
And I don’t necessarily believe that either way is bad I just don’t see why altar calls is used as an example when Acts 2 is very similar.
 
The idea of vain repetition is that the same thing is chanted, prayed, etc… over and over so that the “gods” will hear it and respond. It becomes devoid of meaning in a sense, and becomes almost superstitious.
Based on your definition. I must say that no ive never seen anyone pray the rosary in vain. Just like ive never seen anyone pray the our father in vain. How do you think you can determine how much faith a person has behind their prayers because as you said even if it is a “fingernail” faith then our prayers are not vain. How do you yourself determine as an individual christian that another christians individual prayers does not have faith behind it, and so you call their prayers vain? To bring this back to the rosary how do protestant christians look at the prayers of catholics as they are praying the rosary and determine that there is not enough faith behind that persons prayers? And so they are paying the rosary in vain.
 
What are the Protestant issues with the Rosary, I long for these things to be cleared up.

Is it thought to be too focused on Mary?There are definitely more prayers to Mary
Interesting thread, JT.

I think it’s easier to know what not to say, than to know what to say. For example, I cringe when a protestant raises the above point and a Catholic replies with “Well that’s a stupid question.” or “What, you think it’s all about the number of times each prayer is said?” etc.
 
Depends on the protestant you talk to.

For Lutherans, the only issues are the second part of the “Hail Mary” (“Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death”) I’m sure the Blessed Virgin does pray for us, but typically Lutherans do not practice invocation. The second issue would be the Hail Holy Queen for similar reasons.
The Apostles Creed, Lord’s Prayer, Doxology (Glory be to the father…), etc. we use all the time. Here is an example of a Lutheran Rosary.
giftsofaith.com/Files/lutheranrosary.pdf

Now, some protestants just don’t care for meditative prayer ( what they call repetitive prayer), and some don’t care for the Apostles Creed. Others might have other reasons.

Jon
What’s your take on the Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel? Just curious.
 
I’ve seen the example of altar calls come up a few times and I’m wondering what exactly it is and how it’s unbiblical? Just based on wiki alone it sounds like people go up and accept Christ; isn’t that what was happening in Acts 2?

37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do? "

The rest of the chapter has them (3000) being Baptized, giving up everything and being Christian. This is not anything like the process of the RCIA and closer to altar calls I would think?
A little history on the “altar call”:
Charles Grandison Finney (1792-1875) was a minister, a lecturer, a professor, and a traveling revivalist who held heretical views on the Atonment. He invented the practice which he called the Anxious Seat, and developed a theological system around it. Finney was straightforward about his purpose for this technique and wrote the following comment near the end of his life:
“The church has always felt it necessary to have something of this kind to answer this very purpose. In the days of the apostles, baptism answered this purpose. The gospel was preached to the people, and then all those who were willing to be on the side of Christ, were called out to be baptized. It held the place that the anxious seat does now as a public manifestation of their determination to be Christians
That underlined statement by Finney is significant.
He intended the anxious seat/invitation/sinner’s prayer to replace Baptism. Which it has in evangelical/fundamentalist churches. So, in a sense, it is a ‘Baptist sacrament’ in the embryonic sense of the word, but they (Baptists) do not look at it that way. They have taken the supernatual elements (which Episcopals agree with as well) away from the traditional Sacraments and created thier own “sacrament” they insist is supernatural, though they deny this reality to Sacramental christians.
The Anxious Seat was considered to be a psychological technique that manipulated people to make a premature profession of faith. It was considered to be an emotional conversion influenced by the preachers’ magnetism.
The system that Finney admitted had replaced biblical baptism, is the nucleus for the popular plan of salvation that was made normative in the twentieth century.
It was popularized by Dwight L. Moody. It was standardized by Billy Graham.
Finney’s opponants were from his side of the Tiber. And they had good reason to be concerned. These names might mean nothing to Catholic scholars, but they should to Reformed Protestants.They included:
John Humphrey Noyes (1811–1886)
George W. Gale (1789–1861)
Lyman Beecher (1775–1863)
Asahel Nettleton (1738–1844)
Arthur (1786–1865) and Lewis (1788–1873) Tappan
Asa Mahan (18??–1889)
Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834 –1892)
David Martin Lloyd-Jones.
Ian Murray’s “Revival & Revivalism” (which used to be in my library) is a wonderful resource book looking the damage Finney’s teachings have done to American Protestantism. The ‘invitation’, ‘sinner’s prayer’ are innovations that is not even compatable with conservative Reformed principals, let alone Catholicism.
 
I see a difference even in everyday life between persistence and vain repetition.
👍

We do too. 🙂

To quote Kimberly Hahn,

My daughter would say, “Mommy, I love you, I just love you, I love you.” I never looked at her and said, “Honey, that’s just vain repetition.”
 
What are the Protestant issues with the Rosary

What about Genesis 3:15? Philo Judaeus, Flavius Josephus (both being
contemporary to Jesus), St. Jerome, even Moses Maimonides (12th Cen-
tury CE) all say that it is to be read that ***she ***will crush the Serpent’s head.
WOW! I never knew that! I am definitely passing this on to my friends!
 
Judas Thaddeus;11460112:
What are the Protestant issues with the RosaryWhat about Genesis 3:15
? Philo Judaeus, Flavius Josephus (both being
contemporary to Jesus), St. Jerome, even Moses Maimonides (12th Cen-
tury CE) all say that it is to be read that ***she ***will crush the Serpent’s head.

WOW! I never knew that! I am definitely passing this on to my friends!

Thanks!
Oh I know, I was astonished by this too!

Not only that, we can find the feminine pronoun SHE in the Douay-Rheims Bible,
which by the way beat the King James Version in the race for an English Bible:I will put enmities between thee and the woman,
and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy
head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
(Genesis 3:15)
Commentary:
She shall crush: Ipsa, the woman; so divers of the fathers read this place,
conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz., the seed. The sense
is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the
serpent’s head.​
 
👍

We do too. 🙂

To quote Kimberly Hahn,

My daughter would say, “Mommy, I love you, I just love you, I love you.” I never looked at her and said, “Honey, that’s just vain repetition.”
If she planned that she was going to tell you she loves you [X] number of times and brought counting beads to make sure she knows when she’s done, how would you feel?

Mommy I love you (1) I love you (2) I love you (3).

And then planned to do the same thing tomorrow, wouldn’t that strike you as strange?
 
If she planned that she was going to tell you she loves you [X] number of times and brought counting beads to make sure she knows when she’s done, how would you feel?

Mommy I love you (1) I love you (2) I love you (3).

And then planned to do the same thing tomorrow, wouldn’t that strike you as strange?
From your question, I’d have to guess that you don’t have children (or, at least, not that are old enough to start talking). If you did, I don’t think you would ask that.

Not that this thread is about children. 🙂
 
I urge Catholics to be sigltly careful with the ‘she’ will crush thy head - St. Jerome’s translation is good, but it may have been slightly poetic in that the original is neuter.

It could really be one of the those “both/and” - by proxy Mary could indeed play a part because her Holy Child does the crushing.

Frankly, I love the imagery of Mary with her heal on the serpent - it’s riveting, so you’re not going to get me to argue against it too much.

http://www.ofm.org/01icons/immaculata.jpg
 
If she planned that she was going to tell you she loves you [X] number of times and brought counting beads to make sure she knows when she’s done, how would you feel?

Mommy I love you (1) I love you (2) I love you (3).

And then planned to do the same thing tomorrow, wouldn’t that strike you as strange?
Look at this story. Everyday for the last sixty years this man wanted to express the love for his wife by offering his wife one rose a day for the last 60 years. As well as giving one kiss in the morning and one at night. Does that seem strange to you that he wants to repeatedly express the love for his wife by giving her a rose daily? dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1207876/True-romance-Britains-real-life-Romeo-rose-wifes-bedside-day-60-years.html

I dont think it is strange at all. How is this man giving his wife one rose a day out of love for his wife any different than a catholic praying a rosary a day out of love for our mother. Does the meaning of this mans love lessen because he has continually giving his wife a rose daily for sixty years? Because he brings x number of roses to his wife daily is it now vain repetition? I dont think so.

Anyways if the beads are bugging you about the rosary. Then today ill pray it using my fingers.
 
Look at this story. Everyday for the last sixty years this man wanted to express the love for his wife by offering his wife one rose a day for the last 60 years. As well as giving one kiss in the morning and one at night. Does that seem strange to you that he wants to repeatedly express the love for his wife by giving her a rose daily? dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1207876/True-romance-Britains-real-life-Romeo-rose-wifes-bedside-day-60-years.html

I dont think it is strange at all. How is this man giving his wife one rose a day out of love for his wife any different than a catholic praying a rosary a day out of love for our mother. Does the meaning of this mans love lessen because he has continually giving his wife a rose daily for sixty years? Because he brings x number of roses to his wife daily is it now vain repetition? I dont think so.

Anyways if the beads are bugging you about the rosary. Then today ill pray it using my fingers.
As romantic as that is, how is it like the rosary at all? I really don’t see the correlation. Asking for prayer and jotting down the number of times such prayer is said in no way relates to giving gifts to loved ones.

I just don’t like world analogies for spiritual things. I don’t take issue with asking the Saints to pray for us if possible, but the way it’s done does not remind me of the way we do things here on Earth.

“Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.”

If this is how we are to ask Mary to pray for us, why must we say it over and over. I just don’t get it.
 
If this is how we are to ask Mary to pray for us, why must we say it over and over. I just don’t get it.
I don’t get it either - I pray the Palms. There’s 150 of them!

BUT frankly I don’t have to get it - it’s just that some people find the rosary an appropriate way to pray. When my family joined the HHS mandate protest with the local Catholics, they prayed the rosary in the middle of the protest - I found it charming that it brought so many people closer to God in Faith, and we joined in the best we could.
 
I’ve seen the example of altar calls come up a few times and I’m wondering what exactly it is and how it’s unbiblical? Just based on wiki alone it sounds like people go up and accept Christ; isn’t that what was happening in Acts 2?

?
Everything a protestant does is supposed to be supported or provable from the Bible…altar calls are not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top