D
dronald
Guest
Maybe we should start a new Church?
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J
Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Or…Get back to the Original Church, the Catholic Church?
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wmscott
Guest
I assume this was just in jest…
That is where the problem starts, you get someone who doesn’t like what is being taught with regards to scripture they just up and start their own church so that they can hear what they want to hear and not what Christ wanted us to hear, then someone in that church disagrees and goes and starts their church so that they can hear what they want to and the process keeps going and going until we have the mew we have today.
Whether you want to hear it or not there is only One Church and One Truth, not many conflicting churches and truths.
W
wmscott
Guest
It is not a matter of “if a person believes this, that is great for them”. It is a matter of what Christ established, His Church, His Truths, His will. It is not a matter of what feels good or whatever a person wants to believe.
As a bit of slight humor, funny you should say “The problem is that it is an endless loop” when the larger part of this thread deals with repetition.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
"Then the Lord held forth His right hand, Blessed His Mother and said to Her; “Let your heart rejoice and be glad, O Mary Blessed among women, for every Grace and Gift has been given to you by my heavenly Father, and every soul that calls on your name with holiness, will not be put to shame, but will find mercy and comfort both in this life and the age to come” "
St Maximus the Confessor; Life of the Virgin, pg136 chp 110. the work is thought to be the earliest complete biography of Mary, the mother of Jesus, at least found to date. 600-AD.
Rosary…
Sounds apostolic!
St Maximus the Confessor; Life of the Virgin, pg136 chp 110. the work is thought to be the earliest complete biography of Mary, the mother of Jesus, at least found to date. 600-AD.
Rosary…
Sounds apostolic!
P
pocohombre
Guest
I don’t recall anyone said it (convention) resembles anything, but someone did post that the Rosary resembles biblical repetitiveness( e.g.-Psalms), hence my comment.
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pocohombre
Guest
Yes, One Church, like their was one Nation that perfectly brought forth the Christchild, despite her conflicts, even division and varied truths. Is it right to extol Oneness for self justification, for the Oneness that is True is above us all, and stands on its own ?
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GaryTaylor
Guest
wmscott;11479962:
Jesus Christ who comes to judge the living and the dead. Communion of Saints…Gods holy people. Intercession is Biblical, the church’s as in post 285 have always sought their intercession, In that case St Mary.
I would content the Rosary is the lesser of the issue than the above which disregards those who stand out as examples in Christs Kingdom.
The further issue then follows as the rejection of Gods elect on earth which in fact then makes each a Pope and one who disregards Gods holy people
S
stewstew03
Guest
That is beside the point, poco. We’re working within your sola scriptura paradigm. You said the recitation of the Rosary did not resemble anything in the bible. To be consistent you should be prepared to defend the idea that the SBC does not resemble anything in the bible.
K
Kliska
Guest
Again, we both believe that is true, but our interpretations of what that means are vastly different. Do I believe I’m right and you’re wrong? Of course, that’s why I’m not RC.
Do you think I’m wrong? I hope you do, or else you aren’t acting on your convictions.Ha! Good one.As a bit of slight humor, funny you should say “The problem is that it is an endless loop” when the larger part of this thread deals with repetition.
S
stewstew03
Guest
Please re-read what you wrote above from the perspective of a non-Christian who is hungry for God’s Truth. What are the implications for the evangel spreading the Gospel (Matthew 28:19)?Again, we both believe that is true, but our interpretations of what that means are vastly different. Do I believe I’m right and you’re wrong? Of course, that’s why I’m not RC.
K
Kliska
Guest
Are you under the impression that I’m not a Christian? What I mean by that is that the role of the evangel is to preach Christ and Him crucified, in the context of what is said. Teach all nations, and baptize them. What are we to teach them? Again, Christ and Him crucified. We see a good example when the Ethiopian was taught about Christ and how He fulfilled prophecy and agreed, then was baptized. Scripture was in play then, just as it should be now. Turn to things like the Apostle’s creed for an idea; I believe we both believe that, yes?
Further, my obeying the rules of this board, acknowledging it is a RC board, and me behaving in an (I hope) charitable manner, should not be confused for me thinking that what I believe is not the Truth that I hope everyone comes to. If I didn’t believe that my views are the scriptural views and the truth, I would not hold them.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
“our interpretations” who has this “authority” to discern?
K
Kliska
Guest
We are all supposed to discern, aided by the Spirit. This means that Christians, who have been indwelt, are better discerners than unbelievers, for they are still “natural men” as Paul would say.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
So then all of us who have been indwelt, may use “our [own] interpretations” which makes each individual Gods elect “authority” on earth. Regardless if they all come to various conclusions of truth.
So if you discern alone, this is guided by the Holy Spirit? How about the snake handlers in the hills of Tennessee, guided by the Holy Spirit?
Christian rap, anointed by the HS in discernment? 5-large screen televisions with pen-point?
All the objective truth given in Gods grace, but the Rosary and His Saints, many of which gladly give their lives for the Lord…nothing?
S
stewstew03
Guest
I don’t know whether or not you are a Christian. Do I have the authority to decide? If I discern, aided by the Holy Spirit, that you are not a Christian – what happens next?
(My comments are tongue-in-cheek, but I don’t think the point is lost on you).
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Kliska, how about these in unison who utter the same words in discernment? Should we heed their authority?
“Would you like me to tell you a ‘secret’? It is simple, and after all, is no secret: ‘Pray, pray much. Say the Rosary everyday.’” -Pope John Paul II
“Spread the Rosary, the prayer so dear to the Virgin and so esteemed by popes; by it the faithful can best fulfill the command of Christ: ’ Ask and it shall be given; seek and you shall find; knock and it shall be opened to you.’ (Mt. 7:7). The Rosary puts all who have trust in it into communication with Our Lady.” -Pope Paul VI
“The Rosary, as is known to all, is in fact a very excellent means of prayer and meditation in the form of a mystical crown in which the prayers Our Father, Hail Mary, and Glory be to the Father are intertwined with meditation on the greatest mysteries of our Faith and which presents to the mind, like many pictures, the drama of the Incarnation of our Lord and the Redemption.” -Pope John XXIII
“If you recite the Family Rosary, all united, you shall taste peace; you shall have in your homes concord of souls. Hearing the Christian home resound with the praised of the Queen of Heaven (is) a simple fact in appearance, but extraordinarily received by God, such as to enrapture the Angels, which from Heaven see and hear! The Rosary recited in common gathers the parents with their children, piously joins them with those absent, with the deceased, draws all there, close to the Virgin, who, as Mother, will be in the midst of her children. We esteem the Rosary to be the most suitable and efficacious means to obtain the help of God. The flowers of the Rosary never perish.” -Pope Pius XII
“The Rosary is a powerful weapon to put the demons to flight and to keep oneself from sin… It not only serves admirably to overcome the enemies of God and of religion, but it is also a stimulus and an encouragement to the practice of the evangelical virtues, which it develops and cultivates in our souls. Above all, it nourishes our Catholic Faith…If you desire peace in your hearts, in your homes, and in your country, assemble each evening to recite the Rosary. Let not even one day pass without saying it, no matter how burdened you may be with many cares and labors.” -Pope Pius XI
“The Rosary elevates minds to the truths reveled by God and shows us Heaven opened. The Virgin Mary Herself has insistently recommended this manner of praying. All Graces are conceded to us by God through the hands of Mary.” - Pope Pius XI
“Nevertheless, if men in our century, with its derisive pride, reject the holy Rosary, there is an innumerable multitude of holy men of every age and every condition who have always held it dear. They have recited it with great devotion, and in every moment they have used it as a powerful weapon to put the demons to flight, to preserve the integrity of life, to acquire virtue more easily, and, in a word, to attain real peace among men.” -Pope Pius XI
“From it (the Rosary) the young will draw fresh energy with which to control the rebellious tendencies to evil and to preserve intact the stainless purity of the soul. Also in it, the old will again find repose, relief , and peace from their anxious cares. And to all those who suffer in any way, especially the dying, may it bring comfort and increase the hope of eternal Happiness.” -Pope Pius XI
“The prayer of the Rosary is perfect because of the praises it offers, the lessons it teaches, the graces it obtains, and the victories it achieves.” - Pope Benedict XV
“St. Dominic knew well that, while on the one hand Mary is all powerful with Her divine Son, who grants all graces to mankind through Her, on the other hand, She is by nature so good and so merciful that, inclined to aid spontaneously those who suffer, She is absolutely incapable of refusing Her help to those who invoke Her. The Church is in the habit of greeting the Virgin as ‘Mother of Grace’ and ‘Mother of Mercy,’ and so She has always shown Herself, especially when we have recourse to Her by means of the Holy Rosary.” -Pope Benedict XV
" The Rosary is the most beautiful and the richest of all prayers to the Mediatrix of all grace; it is the prayer that touches most the heart of the Mother of God. Say it each day." -Pope St. Pius X
" The Rosary is the most excellent form of prayer and the most efficacious means of attaining eternal life. It is the remedy for all our evils, the root of all our blessings. There is no more excellent way of praying." -Pope Leo XIII
“Among all the devotions approved by the Church, none has been so favored by so many miracles as the Rosary devotion.” - Pope Pius IX
“Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world.” -Pope Pius IX
“Would you like me to tell you a ‘secret’? It is simple, and after all, is no secret: ‘Pray, pray much. Say the Rosary everyday.’” -Pope John Paul II
“Spread the Rosary, the prayer so dear to the Virgin and so esteemed by popes; by it the faithful can best fulfill the command of Christ: ’ Ask and it shall be given; seek and you shall find; knock and it shall be opened to you.’ (Mt. 7:7). The Rosary puts all who have trust in it into communication with Our Lady.” -Pope Paul VI
“The Rosary, as is known to all, is in fact a very excellent means of prayer and meditation in the form of a mystical crown in which the prayers Our Father, Hail Mary, and Glory be to the Father are intertwined with meditation on the greatest mysteries of our Faith and which presents to the mind, like many pictures, the drama of the Incarnation of our Lord and the Redemption.” -Pope John XXIII
“If you recite the Family Rosary, all united, you shall taste peace; you shall have in your homes concord of souls. Hearing the Christian home resound with the praised of the Queen of Heaven (is) a simple fact in appearance, but extraordinarily received by God, such as to enrapture the Angels, which from Heaven see and hear! The Rosary recited in common gathers the parents with their children, piously joins them with those absent, with the deceased, draws all there, close to the Virgin, who, as Mother, will be in the midst of her children. We esteem the Rosary to be the most suitable and efficacious means to obtain the help of God. The flowers of the Rosary never perish.” -Pope Pius XII
“The Rosary is a powerful weapon to put the demons to flight and to keep oneself from sin… It not only serves admirably to overcome the enemies of God and of religion, but it is also a stimulus and an encouragement to the practice of the evangelical virtues, which it develops and cultivates in our souls. Above all, it nourishes our Catholic Faith…If you desire peace in your hearts, in your homes, and in your country, assemble each evening to recite the Rosary. Let not even one day pass without saying it, no matter how burdened you may be with many cares and labors.” -Pope Pius XI
“The Rosary elevates minds to the truths reveled by God and shows us Heaven opened. The Virgin Mary Herself has insistently recommended this manner of praying. All Graces are conceded to us by God through the hands of Mary.” - Pope Pius XI
“Nevertheless, if men in our century, with its derisive pride, reject the holy Rosary, there is an innumerable multitude of holy men of every age and every condition who have always held it dear. They have recited it with great devotion, and in every moment they have used it as a powerful weapon to put the demons to flight, to preserve the integrity of life, to acquire virtue more easily, and, in a word, to attain real peace among men.” -Pope Pius XI
“From it (the Rosary) the young will draw fresh energy with which to control the rebellious tendencies to evil and to preserve intact the stainless purity of the soul. Also in it, the old will again find repose, relief , and peace from their anxious cares. And to all those who suffer in any way, especially the dying, may it bring comfort and increase the hope of eternal Happiness.” -Pope Pius XI
“The prayer of the Rosary is perfect because of the praises it offers, the lessons it teaches, the graces it obtains, and the victories it achieves.” - Pope Benedict XV
“St. Dominic knew well that, while on the one hand Mary is all powerful with Her divine Son, who grants all graces to mankind through Her, on the other hand, She is by nature so good and so merciful that, inclined to aid spontaneously those who suffer, She is absolutely incapable of refusing Her help to those who invoke Her. The Church is in the habit of greeting the Virgin as ‘Mother of Grace’ and ‘Mother of Mercy,’ and so She has always shown Herself, especially when we have recourse to Her by means of the Holy Rosary.” -Pope Benedict XV
" The Rosary is the most beautiful and the richest of all prayers to the Mediatrix of all grace; it is the prayer that touches most the heart of the Mother of God. Say it each day." -Pope St. Pius X
" The Rosary is the most excellent form of prayer and the most efficacious means of attaining eternal life. It is the remedy for all our evils, the root of all our blessings. There is no more excellent way of praying." -Pope Leo XIII
“Among all the devotions approved by the Church, none has been so favored by so many miracles as the Rosary devotion.” - Pope Pius IX
“Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world.” -Pope Pius IX
K
Kliska
Guest
It still seems as though there is a lack of understanding what terms mean, and how to apply them. We can take the 5 sola’s for example; they most certainly do not mean “anything goes.” You do understand that, yes? In fact, those 5 sola’s were discussed so much because of the unscriptural practices at the time of the reformation.
If someone approaches me with a false teaching, such as the idea the we MUST handle snakes, it is QED to show from scripture that it is a false interpretation. It’s up to the person (hopefully with the help of the Spirit) to correct their practice to be inline with what God teaches in His word. I trust that will happen, not by my power or someone forcing them to change or even commanding them to change, but by God IF the person is willing. If they want to keep handling snakes, bully for them, that doesn’t make me any less wrong, or them any more right.
Who gets to set that and decide that? you ask; God. How are we to know if what someone tells us is true? Search scripture, study, pray, and rely on the Spirit. If you need help go to those that you feel are lead. That’s what you have done in the RCC, you follow what someone else says, because you feel that person or group is lead by God. Same thing.
If someone approaches me with a false teaching, such as the idea the we MUST handle snakes, it is QED to show from scripture that it is a false interpretation. It’s up to the person (hopefully with the help of the Spirit) to correct their practice to be inline with what God teaches in His word. I trust that will happen, not by my power or someone forcing them to change or even commanding them to change, but by God IF the person is willing. If they want to keep handling snakes, bully for them, that doesn’t make me any less wrong, or them any more right.
Who gets to set that and decide that? you ask; God. How are we to know if what someone tells us is true? Search scripture, study, pray, and rely on the Spirit. If you need help go to those that you feel are lead. That’s what you have done in the RCC, you follow what someone else says, because you feel that person or group is lead by God. Same thing.
B
Bayou_Catholic
Guest
I am curious to understand how you would address the follow scripture in terms of repetitiveness. Are God’s angels praying incorrectly? Aren’t these angels being too repetitive?
Rev 4:8 - “And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.” KJV
Is 6:2-3 - “Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.” KJV
B
Bayou_Catholic
Guest
Thank you, and thank you for the welcome. I’ve been observing the forums for a couple months now, but finally felt stirred to participate.Thanks for this beautiful testimony.
And welcome to the Forums!
- Status