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stewstew03
Guest
And how do you know when something has been “interpreted properly”?
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Kliska
Guest
It lines up with scripture. Say someone who says we can drink alcohol and someone says we can’t or it’s a sin, I search scripture, study (including different POV’s) and pray, seeking the guidance of the Spirit to know who’s right.
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stewstew03
Guest
What about someone who has an IQ of 80, or someone who is illiterate? Is it okay if they rely upon, for example, the Bishop of Rome?
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Kliska
Guest
What we are held to is a matter of knowledge and our ability to understand it. So, a child is taught by their parents, or grandparents or guardians, the same for someone that has a condition that inhibits their understanding. Having said that, the gospel of salvation centering on Jesus Christ is itself is a simple message, that most can understand. Also, the idea of sola scriptura doesn’t leave out the positions in the church, nor the gifts of the spirit. There are people blessed with the ability to help teach others.
In short, when we teach others, like our children, we are held accountable for them because we are the ones able to understand and study. So, if the Bishop of Rome accepts his role in guiding others, then he will be held accountable for what he teaches others who aren’t able to be accountable for themselves.
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PRmerger
Guest
What this means, in real life, is: “it lines up with my interpretation of Scripture”, which turns out to mean, “it lines up with what I want to believe”, which turns out to mean, “I get to create a god in my own image and likeness.”
I say that Scripture is clear that drinking alcohol is not a sin.
Someone else says that Scripture is clear that drinking alcohol is a sin.
Is the Holy Spirit telling 2 people contrary things?
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Kliska
Guest
And, again, you seem to have no faith in the power of the Holy Spirit. I’ve given a clear example in my own life of where I believed something and the Holy Spirit guided me to truth despite the views of my family, friends, political leanings, other believers, etc… I have zero doubt in the power of the Spirit. Zero.
PR’ you know that isn’t the point; if a brother in Christ believes totally and fully that drinking is a sin. Would you drink if you went out to a meal with them? Would you serve them beer or wine at your house or try to get them to drink? If they did drink believing it was a sin, is that out of faith or not? Paul teaches love, charity, and understanding, as well as if someone truly believes something is a sin and does it anyway, that is sin because they sinned against their own conscience.
If the Holy Spirit tells you not to do something, I’d suggest you not do it.
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PRmerger
Guest
I absolutely disagree with this.If the Holy Spirit tells you not to do something, I’d suggest you not do it.
I could provide a myriad list of weird, bizarre, vile, beliefs that each of the proponents claims has been whispered to him by the Holy Spirit.
To wit:
-the Westboro Baptist Church–they claim the Holy Spirit tells them not to love homosexuals.
-those folks I have referred to in pridian posts who think the epistles of Paul are satanic. They claim that the HS tells them not to consider the writings of St. Paul inspired.
-Sedevacantists who state that Israel is the synagogue of Satan. They claim the HS tells them not to embrace Jews
to name a few.
So, no, Kliska, I don’t believe the paradigm you’re espousing is a good one. At all.
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PRmerger
Guest
On this we are agreed. For it is indeed a sin to violate one’s conscience.
However, that is quite different from saying, “I believe that [A] is a sin, therefore it is a sin for me, but not for you, if you don’t believe it is.”
Fact: it is not a sin to drink wine.
It is a sin to get drunk.
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dronald
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The wine example is a strange one… I agree that it’s not a sin to drink it, but not drinking it is a good thing too. I take no issue with a Church that is strict on abstaining from alcohol.
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PRmerger
Guest
If they do so because they believe Scripture has enjoined it upon them to demand that all Christians abstain from alcohol, then I do indeed have a problem with that.
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stewstew03
Guest
That is beside the point.
A church that is strict on abstaining probably believes drinking alcohol is forbidden (and therefore a sin).
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Steveabrous
Guest
You have just described infallibility.
So you are your own Pope.
The problem with this is so many people do exactly what you described and come up with different answers.
Is the Holy spirit confused?
No. look at scripture, look at tradition, look at history and you will find it is the magisterium that the Holy spirit guides in this fashion when it comes to doctrine.
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GaryTaylor
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GaryTaylor
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Were not automatons, I don’t believe I ever heard that argument.Does that suggest dissent?
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Kliska
Guest
Have fun with that then. As for me and mine, we will serve the Lord. When He tells us to do something we will do it, when He tells us to refrain, we will refrain, with the grace of God.
You’re lumping yourself in there with a bunch of fine people.
The five sola’s are about the infallibility of God; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Not the infallibility of any one human.
No, the people are.
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Nicea325
Guest
So based on such a standard all the authors of the Bible wrote fallible letters.
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Steveabrous
Guest
But someone has to be able to interpret scripture correctly
in other words if they disagree with you they are wrong. Again you are your own pope
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dronald
Guest
This argument will probably always exist but given the history of the Apostolic Faiths I don’t know why Catholics think this is a valid one.
Imagine an Evangelical is seeking a Church and he concludes to either join the EO or the RC. Tell me, how exactly can he make a decision when both ancient Church’s are giving conflicting statements on matters of interpretation?
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Kliska
Guest
You can interpret scripture correctly. You can also interpret incorrectly. Again, the difference in perspective is that the RCC teaches that only a select few individuals from the RCC itself can interpret scripture correctly. You trust that. The protestant view doesn’t believe that. It’s a basic difference, one that we aren’t going to “solve” on a message-board.
Again, no. It doesn’t matter if they disagree with me, but they shouldn’t disagree with the Spirit. God is the authority behind the scripture, and He is the one that can interpret and teach you to apply. The “Vicar of Christ” is not the Pope, but rather the Spirit is the Vicar of Christ.
Right. They also have fallible man interpreting and applying both scripture and tradition.
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Steveabrous
Guest
Other then Papal infallibility Show me the difference.
They believe in the real presence
The have and believe in apostalic succession
They believe in the sacrements
They even acknowledge the bishop of Rome was always the prime Patriarch.
There is really not much of a difference. And honestly RCC recognizes EO as valid. So?
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