"The Rosary worshipping Mary" Help me!

  • Thread starter Thread starter anhphan
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

anhphan

Guest
Why did they change 150 our father to 150 Hail Mary in the development process of The Rosary? Some people told me it was worshipping Mary.
Please help me. I highly appreciate all your help.
 
Read carefully the words of the Hail Mary. It is also called the Angelic Salutation since it begins with the very same words that Gabriel used in his Annunciation to Mary that she would carry the Christ child. I recently spoke to a non-Catholic who did not have the same understanding that we as Catholics have of Mary’s Fiat. He thought that Mary had no choice, no free will. It is Mary’s Fiat, her “yes,” her willing obedience to God that makes our salvation possible. Mary is the Ark of the Covenant.
Is Mary God? Of course not. Do we worship God? Again, the answer is no. We do however recognize her unique role in salvation history.
It is Mary who proclaims, in her Magnificat as she visits Elizabeth, that all generations shall call her blessed.
“Hail Mary, full of Grace. The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women and Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.”
Mary points always to her Son. It is she who was invited to the wedding at Cana and interceded on behalf of the bridegroom. “Do whatever He tell you.”
The second part of the Hail Mary is intercessory. We ask Mary to pray for us, and to show us her Son.
The Our Father maintains its dominant place at the beginning of the decade. The Hail Mary, our intercessory prayer provides a meditative background to the Mystery upon which we focus turning the rosary into a Christ centered prayer.
No, we do not worship Mary. We honor Mary, the mother of our Savior." What Son would not be pleased should you bring flowers to his mother?", was how a Marian priest once put it.
 
Last edited:
I suspect that the Hail Marys were substituted for most of the Our Fathers - a Rosary still includes 15 Our Fathers along with 150 Hail Marys - because a Hail Mary is shorter than an Our Father and so better suited as a meditation “mantra.” Remember, an essential part of the Rosary is meditation on the various events or “mysteries” in the life of Jesus that we are suppose to do while praying the decades of Hail Marys.

Prayerfully asking Mary in heaven to pray for us is really not much different from St Paul writing to fellow Christians in distant cities and asking them to pray for him, which was something he did regularly. Was St Paul worshipping other Christians when he asked them to pray for him? No, and neither do we worship Mary in heaven when we prayerfully ask her, a fellow Christian, to pray us. In the Hail Mary, we address Mary in pretty much the same words that the angel Gabriel (“Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with you.” Luke 1:28) and St Elizabeth (“Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb. …mother of my Lord…” Luke 1:42,43) used when they addressed Mary and we ask no more of Mary than what we might ask of any other Christian, namely, to “pray for us.” (Col 4:3; 1 Thes 5:25; 2 Thes 3:1)
 
Last edited:
Quote:
Is Mary God? Of course not. Do we worship God? Again, the answer is no.

I am sure you meant to say “Do we worship HER as a god?”
The answer is no.

Quote:
"Hail Mary, full of Grace. The Lord is you..."

Again, I’m sure you meant to type, “The Lord is WITH you…”
But the angel does not refer to her as Mary. The scripture says,
Hail, FULL-OF-GRACE,
in Greek, “kecharitomene”, a term which is unique in scripture.
Tim Staples does a wonderful job in helping us understand this term in his book,
Behold Your Mother.
http://shop.catholic.com/behold-you...ical-defense-of-the-marian-doctrines-set.html

It’s my understanding that the rosary developed from the reciting of the 150 Psalms and then changed to the tradition we have today over the years in order to make the devotion more accessible to the laity. See the 3rd paragraph in this article:
Rosary

Quote:
It is Mary who proclaims, in her Magnificat as she visits Elizabeth, that all generations shall call her blessed.

This is in Luke 1; a prophecy. This is something to point out to non-Catholics, who say they follow scripture, i.e., do they call Mary blessed, or do they mostly ignore her (except during Christmas when the nativity crèche is displayed)?

Mother Miriam (formerly Rosalind Moss) says, “Mary is a Jewish mother. She would say what any Jewish mother would say - have I got a son for you!”

Blessings,
Mimi
 
Remember, why 150 Our Fathers? It’s because ordinary lay people couldn’t be expected to remember the 150 Psalms. It’s a whole lot easier to remember to recite the Our Fathers instead of the Psalms.
Evolution of Repetitive Prayer Forms: During the 13th century many medieval theologians composed ‘Psalters of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. These were a series of 150 praises to honor Jesus. Soon psalters devoted to 150 praises of Mary were composed. When a Psalter of Marian praises numbered 50 instead of 150 it was commonly called a ‘rosarium, hence the term Rosary. In an age when unity was held in high regard, it was inevitable that these prayer forms should eventually be combined. Combining Prayers and Origin of Mysteries: The first step toward combining these psalters came c.1365 when the 150 Angelic Salutations were put into groups of 10 and an Our Father before each decade. This combined the Our Father and the Hail Mary for the first time. Next, in about 1409, a special “Thought” was provided for each Hail Mary. Eventually the 50 Hail Mary Thoughts evolved into one for each Our Father bead; hence the fifteen brief Our Father Thoughts, which have survived as the Fifteen Mysteries, we know today.
Click to expand...
 
Why did they change 150 our father to 150 Hail Mary in the development process of The Rosary?
Click to expand...
They didn’t.
Some people told me it was worshipping Mary.
Click to expand...
It isn’t.
Please help me. I highly appreciate all your help.
Click to expand...
There was no, so-called, development process of the Rosary. The Rosary is a prayer that was composed by heaven and revealed to St. Dominic in a vision of Our Lady.

The problem is that there are too many scholars who want to do away with mysteries and miracles. So, they invent “plausible” explanations for things they don’t understand and make connections that aren’t there.

Yes, prayer beads have existed since before the Rosary. Even in pagan countries. But the Rosary was revealed to St. Dominic by Our Lady in the 13th century.

St. Dominic

Some scholars and others may object to the history of the Rosary as related by Bl. Alan de la Roche. Believing that the modern trend to “de-mythologize” virtually every aspect of the Faith has led to an unhealthy spirit of skepticism, we choose to present what is reported by Bl. Alan — that St. Dominic received directly from Our Lady the Rosary as the faithful have known it ever since. We do so, first, because many popes, following the account given by Bl. Alan, have spoken of the Rosary coming to us from Our Lady, through St. Dominic. Further, although the earliest biographies of St. Dominic apparently say nothing about the origin of the Rosary as related by Bl. Alan, the latter attested under oath that the knowledge came to him through a mystical revelation. To doubt his account amounts to accusing a holy man of fabricating a story about Our Lady — i.e. of lying.

 
Last edited:
Are you so certain that 150 Ave’ (Hail Mary’s) replaced 150 Our Fathers? I am not aware of any source that credibly cites this. There are some stories of the Rosary being handed down to one of the Saints, as mentioned earlier, but there is not any hard evidence that this is actually the case. The more reasonable explanation is that, so lay people could pray with the monastics, they would say 150 Ave’s (the words of the Angel and Elizabeth to Mary in Scripture), using beads or stones to keep count, while Monastics would recite the Psalms daily. Over time, this developed into what we know as the Rosary.
But in reality that doesn’t really matter. The main point is that the Rosary is a prayer of the Scriptures reflecting on the life of Christ. The Hail Mary’s we say do give proper honor to the Mother of our Lord. But they are certainly NOT giving her the worship that is due to God alone. So, no, it’s not “worshipping Mary”.
 
Does the Catholic Church Idolize the Virgin Mary in the Rosary? First, review Luke 1:26-56 (I use the King James Bible when I talk to non-Catholic Christians so as not to cause confusion when they look up verse because many times that is the Bible they will use.)

26And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
39And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
40And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
45And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
 
46And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
49For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
50And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
51He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
53He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
54He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
55As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
56And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.

Now the Hail Mary
Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with thee (This line is covered in verse 28 and 30)
28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Blessed of thou amongst woman and bless is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus
This line is explained in verse 42
42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Holy Mary mother of God is explained in verse 35
35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
 
Pray for us sinner now and at the hour of death. Many people will say the Bible has never showed that the Virgin Mary prayed for sinner at the time of their death. However, you should review Luke 23: 32- 44 and John 19: 25-38.

Luke 23: 32- 44 is provided below:
32 And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour

First, in Luke 23: 36 vinegar is offered to Jesus.

36And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,

Next, in Luke 23: 39 one the malefactors, which can be called a sinner mocks Jesus.
39And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

Then in Luke 23: 40 the other sinner defends Jesus
40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

Jesus rewards the second sinners and tells him in Luke 23: 43
43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
 
John 19: 25-38 is provided below for review:

25Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
28After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
31The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
38And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
 
In John 19:25 it clearly establishes that Mary the mother of Jesus was at the Cross.

25Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

Then in John 19: 29 The vinegar is offered Jesus.
29Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.

So if we place this with Luke Gospel which shows that the vinegar is offered in Luke 23: 36 then one sinner rebukes Jesus in Luke 23: 39 and the other sinner defends Jesus in Luke 23: 40 and Jesus rewards the sinner in Luke 23: 43 with the statement “Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise”; it is cleared that the Mother of Jesus is at the foot of the cross in John’s Gospel before the vinegar is offered to Jesus than Mary the Mother of God was there and witness these sinners and was, in fact, joined together by Jesus’ statement “Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
This now this can be shown as praying for sinners “now” and “at the time of our deaths” can be shown in John 19: 32
32Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.

Once again Mary the Mother of Jesus was there and witnessed these acts is it that difficult to believe she did not offer a prayer just like her son Jesus did before because her son now dead could not verbalize it himself.

So we Catholic include ourselves since we all are sinners asking the Virgin Mary to Pray for us now and at the hour of our death.

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen
 
anhphan said:
Why did they change 150 our father to 150 Hail Mary in the development process of The Rosary? Some people told me it was worshipping Mary.
Please help me. I highly appreciate all your help.
Click to expand...
The Rosary is private revelation it comes from Heaven, nobody changed anything, you aren’t required to believe it.

The Fifteen Promises Granted to those who Recite the Rosary
  1. Whosoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces.
  2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.
  3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin and defeat heresies.
  4. It will cause good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire for Eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means!
  5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary shall not perish.
  6. Whosoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries, shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of Eternal Life.
  7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
  8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the Light of God and the plenitude of His Graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the Merits of the Saints in Paradise.
  9. I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
  10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of Glory in Heaven.
  11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by recitation of the Rosary.
  12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.
  13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire Celestial Court during their life and at the hour of death.
  14. All who recite the Rosary are my Sons, and brothers of my Only Son Jesus Christ.
  15. Devotion to my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.
https://www.catholiccompany.com/getfed/15-promises-to-christians-who-pray-the-rosary/
 
But I still don’t understand. Why did they change 150 our father to 150 Hail Mary, why not 150 glory be? Why did they recite Hail Mary more than Our Father (There was no meditation then).
 
I know repeating the Hail Mary many times is to honor the Queen of Heaven. So why don’t we repeat the Our Father many times to honor God? Please help me, thank you very much.
 
Praying the Our Father and the Hail Mary began with the early church. Our Lady, the spiritual Mother given to us at the Cross, gave the Rosary in its present form to St. Dominic in the year 1214 for spiritual warfare against the Albigensian heresy. The Albigensian heretics, who denied the divinity of Christ, were confusing and corrupting many Catholics. When St. Dominic prayed and preached the Rosary, he converted many heretics, and the church was healed. In 1571, Pope Saint Pius V attributed the miraculous victory over the Muslim invasion at the battle of Lepanto to Our Lady of the Rosary, and established October 7 as the feast of the Most Holy Rosary. Where the Rosary was prayed against heresy and invasion, the battle was victorious. We can also pray it in our own time against all kinds of evils. It is worshiping God, contemplating the mysteries of salvation, and asking Mary to pray for us.
 
They didn’t change it. The Rosary was handed down to St. Dominic from Our Lady Herself. Again, what other posters said, there’s a tendency in modern scholars to write off anything supernatural. The Rosary was composed and originated in Heaven.
 
Many people don’t realise that the original Hail Mary consisted only of the Angelic Salutation, and Elizabeth’s greeting.

The second half (‘Holy Mary, Mother of God’ and so on) was only added at the Council Of Trent in the 16th Century.

So straight away there is evidence that the rosary has not existed in its present form since St. Dominic’s time.
 
The Glory Be closes out the decade. We begin with the Our Father. Repeat the Hail Mary’s, and close out each decade with the Doxology. There’s a unity in how each decade comes together. I see a greater emphasis with the Our Father and the Glorification of the Trinity as the Rosary is currently recited.
State the mystery. Say the Our Father. Ten Hail Mary’s while meditating upon the Gospel mystery. Glorify the Trinity at the end of each decade.
Mary is interceding throughout the rosary on our behalf.
If you want to increase your concentration on a particular mystery, you can do as I do. Add a word or phrase after the name of Jesus while praying the Hail Mary (also called a clause). The rosary is meant to be a meditative prayer.
Example: During the 3rd Joyful mystery, add the word Emmanuel. Focus on God being with us.
Have you ever considered praying a Scriptural rosary? This may also help with this question. The rosary is more than simply repeating prayers. There is a pattern. Each decade has a beginning, middle, and end.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top