The Rosary

[zab]

But he never made such a claim, so it seems imprudent to do so especially as even if someone makes such a claim the church seeks proof and in this case he has not even made such a claim.

He doesn’t need to make claim. It seems obvious to me, but apparently not to others. These Luminous Mysteries are a gift to us. You can refuse the gift if you want.

 

[mullenpm]

jmj1984, why are you so adamant - your mind is completely closed. Why is that? How can you have such a strong objection to the addition of the Luminious Mysteries by using the tired reasoning - they are optional. Many people use the word “optional” to explain away something in which they do not wish to participate.

The Rosary is only “optional” so why bother to pray it at all; is the reasoning simply because it is a “tradition” and not that it is a beautiful way of walking with Jesus through His life and sharing His suffering and joys. That is what the Luminious Mysteries are - a sharing of the public life of Jesus. What is so optional about that?

 

[zab]

jmj1984, why are you so adamant - your mind is completely closed. Why is that? How can you have such a strong objection to the addition of the Luminious Mysteries by using the tired reasoning - they are optional. Many people use the word “optional” to explain away something in which they do not wish to participate.

The Rosary is only “optional” so why bother to pray it at all; is the reasoning simply because it is a “tradition” and not that it is a beautiful way of walking with Jesus through His life and sharing His suffering and joys. That is what the Luminious Mysteries are - a sharing of the public life of Jesus. What is so optional about that?

I think we should not be so critical of those who have not yet recognized the value of these new Mysteries of the Rosary. ** jmj1984** does not object to others praying the Luminous Mysteries. Those of us who have accepted these new Mysteries should just thank God for this beautiful gift to us.

 

[jmj1984]

He doesn’t need to make claim. It seems obvious to me, but apparently not to others. These Luminous Mysteries are a gift to us. You can refuse the gift if you want.

It is one thing to claim that something is a gift, quite another to claim he was inspired by God to create them. The Summa of St Thomas Aquinas is a gift, yet I don’t see anyone claiming divine inspiration for that

 

[jmj1984]

jmj1984, why are you so adamant - your mind is completely closed. Why is that? How can you have such a strong objection to the addition of the Luminious Mysteries by using the tired reasoning - they are optional. Many people use the word “optional” to explain away something in which they do not wish to participate.

The Rosary is only “optional” so why bother to pray it at all; is the reasoning simply because it is a “tradition” and not that it is a beautiful way of walking with Jesus through His life and sharing His suffering and joys. That is what the Luminious Mysteries are - a sharing of the public life of Jesus. What is so optional about that?

You know well that that is not my only reason or at least you would if you had bothered to read anything I have written. I do not see how you are calling me close minded when it is you who wants everyone to pray the luminous mysteries and wish to belittle them for not praying it.

You do not see me running around saying people should only pray the traditional mysteries so why are you doing that for the luminous mysteries?

 

[TimothyH]

The Luminious Mysteries are mysteries of light. They are mysteries of revelation, where Christ reveals his kingdom to us.

In the five mysteries Christ 1) enters his kingdom, 2) manifests his kingdom, 3) proclaims his kingdom, 8) appears as the king who is to consummate his kingdom, 5) and then gives us himself as king forever. It is the story of Christ establishing a kingdom and this is, in fact, the entire structre and overall story contained in the Gospel of Matthew - Christ the King entering and setting up his kingdom, proclaiming the death of the old kingdom, and rising to his throne in victory. It’s about the Kingdom.

One can say they don’t want to pray the Luminious Mysteries, or that they are not vailid, or that they get nothing from them spiritually, or even that they just don’t like them. That’s fine. But one cannot say that they are void of meaning. The Luminious Mysteries have a very clear meaning. One may not like it or agree with it, but they are not just random, unrelated biblical events to fill up our Thursdays. They are designed to teach us about the revelation of Christ the King and his kingdom.

-Tim-

 

[Zooey]

The rosary is my favorite prayer, & I am thrilled to have been able to put that site among my favorites.

(Now back to your regularly scheduled thread).

 

[zab]

It is one thing to claim that something is a gift, quite another to claim he was inspired by God to create them. The Summa of St Thomas Aquinas is a gift, yet I don’t see anyone claiming divine inspiration for that

One can be inspired by God without claiming Divine Inspiration. When priests and deacons prepare their homilies, they often pray to the Holy Spirit to guide them on what to say. I do believe that the Holy Spirit guides them on what to write and what to say at times. And certainly He guides the pope. That does not mean that I am claiming that some work is the result of Divine Inspiration, such as the Church’s selection of the Books of the Bible.

 

[anp1215]

I really like my Rosary cd from the Mary Foundation. It has the Rosary, Divine Mercy Chaplet, other prayers, a history of the Rosary, and why we pray it. It’s formatted so that you can respond to it, like you were praying in a communal setting. I like it because it keeps me from going too fast.

 

[jmj1984]

One can say they don’t want to pray the Luminious Mysteries, or that they are not vailid, or that they get nothing from them spiritually, or even that they just don’t like them. That’s fine. But one cannot say that they are void of meaning. The Luminious Mysteries have a very clear meaning. One may not like it or agree with it, but they are not just random, unrelated biblical events to fill up our Thursdays. They are designed to teach us about the revelation of Christ the King and his kingdom.

One can however say that to you they are devoid of meaning in the context of the rosary.

 

[jmj1984]

One can be inspired by God without claiming Divine Inspiration. When priests and deacons prepare their homilies, they often pray to the Holy Spirit to guide them on what to say. I do believe that the Holy Spirit guides them on what to write and what to say at times. And certainly He guides the pope. That does not mean that I am claiming that some work is the result of Divine Inspiration, such as the Church’s selection of the Books of the Bible.

But it will never be more than a pious opinion unsubstantiated by an actual facts.

 

[zab]

But it will never be more than a pious opinion unsubstantiated by an actual facts.

It is enough for me. The Luminous Mysteries are worthy of reflection in that they are in fact events of the life of Christ found in the Scriptures and not contrary to our belief. But I’m not saying that you have to accept them as part of your Rosary meditations or reflections.

 

[jmj1984]

It is enough for me. The Luminous Mysteries are worthy of reflection in that they are in fact events of the life of Christ found in the Scriptures and not contrary to our belief. But I’m not saying that you have to accept them as part of your Rosary meditations or reflections.

Fair enough.

Now perhaps we can all agree that the Rosary is a wonderful devotion?

 

[TimothyH]

One can however say that to you they are devoid of meaning in the context of the rosary.

I don’t understand this comment.

I don’t understand how you know what meaning anything has to me. Perhaps I am not understanding your comment correctly. Would you please help me?

Are you are saying that the Luminious Mysteries are out place and therefor void of meaning in the context of the Rosary? I would say that as Christ himself came into the world through Mary, all of Christianity finds its context, at least in part, in and through Mary.

But perhaps my comments are moot. I really don’t understand what you are trying to say.

-Tim-

 

[jmj1984]

I don’t understand this comment.

I don’t understand how you know what meaning anything has to me. Perhaps I am not understanding your comment correctly. Would you please help me?

Are you are saying that the Luminious Mysteries are out place and therefor void of meaning in the context of the Rosary? I would say that as Christ himself came into the world through Mary, all of Christianity finds its context, at least in part, in and through Mary.

But perhaps my comments are moot. I really don’t understand what you are trying to say.

-Tim-

I am saying that I can legitimately say that I find the luminous mysteries totally devoid of meaning in the context of the Rosary. You can say that you do find them enlightening etc… but you cannot tell others that they cannot say that they find the mysteries devoid of meaning and pointless.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

I am saying that I can legitimately say that I find the luminous mysteries totally devoid of meaning in the context of the Rosary. You can say that you do find them enlightening etc… but you cannot tell others that they cannot say that they find the mysteries devoid of meaning and pointless.

Actually, you can. Just like this: You can’t. I can’t say it honestly, since I don’t know what you’re feeling, but I believe it was the Prophet John Locke who said it best: Don’t tell me what I can’t do.

Meditating on the Institution of the Eucharist is in no way a waste of anyone’s time. That is like saying it’s a waste to meditate on The Finding of Jesus in the Temple. What merit does it really have? He was lost for three days and then he was found. There is of course a lot of merit in that decade, but it depends on how you explain it. I’m not saying you have to pray the Luminous Mysteries, but please, under any circumstance, don’t say they are a waste of time and devoid of any meaning. The Rosary is meant to meditate on some of the most important Mysteries in the Bible. If I’m not mistaken, all five of the Luminous Mysteries are important in the Bible, the last one being what has stopped the world from falling apart. If no one received the Eucharist, the world would be in untold ruin. Saint Padre Pio said “It would be easier for the world to live without the sun than without the celebration of the Mass.” If the Eucharist is so important that we would literally pray in front of it, why wouldn’t it be worth our time to meditate upon how we got the chance to?

To quote a Blessed John Paul the Great: “To recite the Rosary is nothing other than to contemplate with Mary the face of Christ.”

 

[jmj1984]

Actually, you can. Just like this: You can’t. I can’t say it honestly, since I don’t know what you’re feeling, but I believe it was the Prophet John Locke who said it best: Don’t tell me what I can’t do.

A rather childish response, you may do it but it is not legitimate to do so, in common parlance you can’t. Feel free to tell others what to do though.

Meditating on the Institution of the Eucharist is in no way a waste of anyone’s time. That is like saying it’s a waste to meditate on The Finding of Jesus in the Temple. What merit does it really have? He was lost for three days and then he was found. There is of course a lot of merit in that decade, but it depends on how you explain it. I’m not saying you have to pray the Luminous Mysteries, but please, under any circumstance, don’t say they are a waste of time and devoid of any meaning. The Rosary is meant to meditate on some of the most important Mysteries in the Bible. If I’m not mistaken, all five of the Luminous Mysteries are important in the Bible, the last one being what has stopped the world from falling apart. If no one received the Eucharist, the world would be in untold ruin. Saint Padre Pio said “It would be easier for the world to live without the sun than without the celebration of the Mass.” If the Eucharist is so important that we would literally pray in front of it, why wouldn’t it be worth our time to meditate upon how we got the chance to?

Except that it is already dealt with in the sorrowful mysteries, so there is no need for an additional mystery to deal with it. Whether you like it or not, the luminous mysteries are not compulsory, they are an optional addition to the rosary and they undermine the symbology of the rosary and thus are considered by many to be illegitimate.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

A rather childish response, you may do it but it is not legitimate to do so, in common parlance you can’t. Feel free to tell others what to do though.

Except that it is already dealt with in the sorrowful mysteries, so there is no need for an additional mystery to deal with it. Whether you like it or not, the luminous mysteries are not compulsory, they are an optional addition to the rosary and they undermine the symbology of the rosary and thus are considered by many to be illegitimate.

Childish? I’m simply correcting an error you said. It simply depends on how you read it.

Except it’s not. The Agony in the Garden is covered in the Sorrowful Mysteries, which has nothing to do with the Eucharist. Whether you like it or not, they are compulsory. They are indeed optional. You keep talking about the symbology of the Rosary. The Rosary is not about symbology! It is about praying a devotion to Mary and to God. Blessed John Paul the Great said: “To recite the Rosary is nothing other than to contemplate with Mary the face of Christ.” It’s not about symbology, and it’s not about keeping the same number of Hail Mary’s with the psalms. If it were so great orders and Saints like the Redemptorists and John Henry Newman would be burned to the stake for praying Rosary’s with over twenty beads to a decade.

 

[jmj1984]

Childish? I’m simply correcting an error you said. It simply depends on how you read it.

Nope childish about sums it up.

Except it’s not. The Agony in the Garden is covered in the Sorrowful Mysteries, which has nothing to do with the Eucharist. Whether you like it or not, they are compulsory. They are indeed optional. You keep talking about the symbology of the Rosary. The Rosary is not about symbology! It is about praying a devotion to Mary and to God. Blessed John Paul the Great said: “To recite the Rosary is nothing other than to contemplate with Mary the face of Christ.” It’s not about symbology, and it’s not about keeping the same number of Hail Mary’s with the psalms. If it were so great orders and Saints like the Redemptorists and John Henry Newman would be burned to the stake for praying Rosary’s with over twenty beads to a decade.

Then you should have a discussion with St Louis de Montfort and St Alphonsus while you’re at it

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

Nope childish about sums it up.

Then you should have a discussion with St Louis de Montfort and St Alphonsus while you’re at it

Ha. I think you may have responded a so-called “childish” response with a childish response. This also shows that you are indeed closed-minded. My comment was childish and that’s that. There’s no ifs or buts about it. This simply indicates you are the same with the Rosary.

I’m simply saying that if keeping the same number of Rosary beads with the same number of Psalms is so important than why on earh would Saint Alphonsus make it a rule that everyone in his order must pray the twenty decade Rosary? This seems contradictory to something so important.