The Rosary

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ATeutonicKnight said:
Ha. I think you may have responded a so-called “childish” response with a childish response. This also shows that you are indeed closed-minded. My comment was childish and that’s that. There’s no ifs or buts about it. This simply indicates you are the same with the Rosary.
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Sorry what was the point of this? If somethings childish, its childish, what do you want me to do have a debate on why something is childish? :rolleyes:
ATeutonicKnight said:
I’m simply saying that if keeping the same number of Rosary beads with the same number of Psalms is so important than why on earh would Saint Alphonsus make it a rule that everyone in his order must pray the twenty decade Rosary? This seems contradictory to something so important.
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How pray tell me would St Alphonsus do this when there was no such thing as a 20 decade rosary in his time? 🤷
 
jmj1984 said:
Sorry what was the point of this? If somethings childish, its childish, what do you want me to do have a debate on why something is childish? :rolleyes:

How pray tell me would St Alphonsus do this when there was no such thing as a 20 decade rosary in his time? 🤷
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No, but what you said was childish. So I simply said it was ironic that you say I’m childish with a childish comment.

Well, it turns out I’m mistaken. Saint Alphonsus declared that every Redemptorist should wear a fifteen-decade Rosary. However, if what you say was true, than why do Saints use twenty bead decade Rosaries? Symbology is not the most important thing in the world. The Rosary is not about symbology. It’s about praying and honoring God and Mary. I’m afraid you focus too much on symbology and not enough on the actual Rosary.
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
No, but what you said was childish. So I simply said it was ironic that you say I’m childish with a childish comment.

Well, it turns out I’m mistaken. Saint Alphonsus declared that every Redemptorist should wear a fifteen-decade Rosary. However, if what you say was true, than why do Saints use twenty bead decade Rosaries? Symbology is not the most important thing in the world. The Rosary is not about symbology. It’s about praying and honoring God and Mary. I’m afraid you focus too much on symbology and not enough on the actual Rosary.
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I’m not going to engage in a circular argument with you.

As I said take that up with St Louis de Montfort and St Alphonsus, ask them why the focus so much on symbology in their much admired theological works such as True Devotion to the blessed virgin Mary, Secret of the Rosary and The Glories of Mary

I have never heard of 20 bead rosaries just as I had never heard of 20 decade rosaries.

Besides which symbology was one of several reasons I gave for why I do not use the glorious mysteries and not the most important. I don’t use them because
1)They were not given to St Dominic by Our Lady or at the very least he was not inspired to create them
2)No Marian saint saw any need to revise the Rosary in its long history
3)They are devoid of meaning, what exactly is a luminous mystery, what is their special quality? For the other sets of mysteries it is clear for the luminous not so much. And neither ‘Christ’s public ministry’ nor ‘shining a light on…’ cut it as the former is a markedly different definition to the other mysteries and the latter is illogical as all the mysteries do this
4)They undermine the symbology of the Rosary
 
jmj1984 said:
I’m not going to engage in a circular argument with you.

As I said take that up with St Louis de Montfort and St Alphonsus, ask them why the focus so much on symbology in their much admired theological works such as True Devotion to the blessed virgin Mary, Secret of the Rosary and The Glories of Mary

I have never heard of 20 bead rosaries just as I had never heard of 20 decade rosaries.

Besides which symbology was one of several reasons I gave for why I do not use the glorious mysteries and not the most important. I don’t use them because
1)They were not given to St Dominic by Our Lady or at the very least he was not inspired to create them
2)No Marian saint saw any need to revise the Rosary in its long history
3)They are devoid of meaning, what exactly is a luminous mystery, what is their special quality? For the other sets of mysteries it is clear for the luminous not so much. And neither ‘Christ’s public ministry’ nor ‘shining a light on…’ cut it as the former is a markedly different definition to the other mysteries and the latter is illogical as all the mysteries do this
4)They undermine the symbology of the Rosary
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Well, at first I was stumped at this reply, so the name of any good Catholic immediately came to my mind: Father Flynn. Here is a link to it: xt3.com/discussion/thread.php?id=12632&jumpToMessageId=181894#message181894 Please go to the link he sent me. It will help you a lot.
 
MissRose73 said:
I always include the Fatima invocation after each mystery is prayed upon. Yes I do pray the Luminous Mysteries too. Some people do other invocations after the Fatima one of various kinds too, but its hard to keep track of them of all.
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Like you, i pray the Fatima as well and i always finish the rosary prayer by praying to St Michael.
 
jmj1984, you are responding almost in anger to any sort of criticism. Of course you do not need to pray the Luminous Mysteries if you choose not to; but, you are behaving as though there is something objectional about them.😦

What exactly (EXACTLY) do you mean by “devoid of meaning.” What is your definition of “devoid”. How any part of the life of Jesus Christ can have no meaning I do not understand. Please help me to understand your anger.:confused:
 
mullenpm said:
jmj1984, you are responding almost in anger to any sort of criticism. Of course you do not need to pray the Luminous Mysteries if you choose not to; but, you are behaving as though there is something objectional about them.😦

What exactly (EXACTLY) do you mean by “devoid of meaning.” What is your definition of “devoid”. How any part of the life of Jesus Christ can have no meaning I do not understand. Please help me to understand your anger.:confused:
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I am only angry because whilst I am perfectly happy to let people who want to pray the luminous mysteries pray them and as are the other traditionalists on this thread, some of those who support the luminous mysteries believe it is their duty to ‘convert us’ into saying them. Why this I cannot say 🤷 But it smacks either of insecurity or self-righteousness.

Devoid of meaning has its plain and ordinary grammatical meaning, within the context of the rosary those mysteries simply have no meaning and are in my opinion unecessary. The institution of the eucharist is dealt with in the last of the sorrowful mysteries and indeed throughout all of them, the transfiguration is to do with christs glory and thus its underlying subject matter is already dealt with in the glorious mysteries. What exactly one is supposed to get from ‘the wedding of cana’ is beyond me, we already know how important and unique marys role and understand the importance of complete faith in christ etc… through the other mysteries. ‘The Baptism of our lord’ is equally meaningless, we already know that Our Lord is chosen and blessed, this is dealt with throughout the joyful mysteries. That is dealing with the mysteries individually, as a whole however in my opinion the mysteries are also meaningless, the other mysteries deal with Christs joy, sorrow and glory, what on earth do the luminous mysteries deal with? They have no special claim to enlightenment, all the mysteries do that. The claim can however be advanced that they are specifically to do with Christs public ministry, this however makes them markedly different from the other mysteries which do not focus on particularly parts of Christ’s life but rather either joys, sorrows or glories. In my mind this shows that they would have been better suited as a chaplet not an addition to the rosary. Others state that it is so there is more of Christ in the Rosary, that is firstly insulting to Our Lady and St Dominic as well as the hundreds of saints, blesseds and thousands of holy people and millions of ordinary people who have prayed the rosary over the years. And secondly it appears to be pandering to ecumenical concerns.

Lastly and on a more practical note, saints recommended that we pray the Whole Rosary in one day but realising that this was difficult recommended splitting it into 3, with an additional set of mysteries it is even longer and becomes almost impratical to say in one day.
 
mullenpm said:
jmj1984, you are responding almost in anger to any sort of criticism. Of course you do not need to pray the Luminous Mysteries if you choose not to; but, you are behaving as though there is something objectional about them.😦

What exactly (EXACTLY) do you mean by “devoid of meaning.” What is your definition of “devoid”. How any part of the life of Jesus Christ can have no meaning I do not understand. Please help me to understand your anger.:confused:
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I didn’t get that impression of him. He just doesn’t like to say the Luminous Mysteries. He finds them “devoid of meaning” to him. But “to each his own” he says. Let it go.
 
jmj1984 said:
I am saying that I can legitimately say that I find the luminous mysteries totally devoid of meaning in the context of the Rosary. You can say that you do find them enlightening etc… but you cannot tell others that they cannot say that they find the mysteries devoid of meaning and pointless.
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OK. I find meaning. You do not. OK.

I think “Find” may be the operative word here though. Have you looked for meaning? Have you read any of the Apostolic Letters or Encyclicals by John Paul II on the Luminious Mysteries or the Rosary itself?

I don’t think I’m off base here in assuming that you don’t care to read any of that. If that is the case, it is not my intent to beat you over the head and convince you, or anyone else, that you must pray them or that you must find meaining in them or that you should pray my way. If it is God’s will that you be convinced, it will be done with or without me getting in the way.

But I will repeat, that they do have meaning, even if some have not found it yet.

Good luck and peace.

-Tim-
 
jmj1984 said:
So in other words you don’t have a reply, and how on earth is a video of WYD relevant? 🤷
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It’s a WYD site, but if you just scrolled down to inches you would see a discussion thread and Father talking about it. Indeed, I do have a reply. In terms of twenty bead decade Rosaries, I’m referring to Rosaries that have twenty Hail Mary beads to a decade, which have been around for a very long time, and are used by those with a devotion to Mary. So in that Rosary you have three hundred Hail Mary’s instead of 150, and many Saints devoted to Mary have used it. In fact, most statues with Mary have a twenty-bead decade Rosary in her hand. You’ve been to more than one Cathedral in your life, right?
 
jmj1984 said:
So in other words you don’t have a reply, and how on earth is a video of WYD relevant? 🤷
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Oh right, now I remember. It sent you to a WYD video because that is where you login. You must be a member to see the page. Just make an account on there and you can see the message. It takes five minutes at the most to do so. If you’d like not to find out if your line of thinking is completely wrong according to Catholic teaching or not, be my guest. But I really would like you to see the link.

Here is a small message Father Flynn says: “If you friend is very traditional then he should also be convinced of the pope’s authority. The rosary is a devotion and the pope has all the authority he needs to make alterations to devotions, so your friend’s objection is simply without foundation.”
 
i dont use the luminous mystery’s because thats not the mystery’s Our Lady gave us, God bless
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
Oh right, now I remember. It sent you to a WYD video because that is where you login. You must be a member to see the page. Just make an account on there and you can see the message. It takes five minutes at the most to do so. If you’d like not to find out if your line of thinking is completely wrong according to Catholic teaching or not, be my guest. But I really would like you to see the link.

Here is a small message Father Flynn says: “If you friend is very traditional then he should also be convinced of the pope’s authority. The rosary is a devotion and the pope has all the authority he needs to make alterations to devotions, so your friend’s objection is simply without foundation.”
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LOL I don’t see JMJ creating a WYD account.
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
It’s a WYD site, but if you just scrolled down to inches you would see a discussion thread and Father talking about it. Indeed, I do have a reply. In terms of twenty bead decade Rosaries, I’m referring to Rosaries that have twenty Hail Mary beads to a decade, which have been around for a very long time, and are used by those with a devotion to Mary. So in that Rosary you have three hundred Hail Mary’s instead of 150, and many Saints devoted to Mary have used it. In fact, most statues with Mary have a twenty-bead decade Rosary in her hand. You’ve been to more than one Cathedral in your life, right?
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I have never heard about a 20 bead rosary, neither apparently have St Louis de Montfort or St Alphonsus how odd… :rolleyes:
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
Oh right, now I remember. It sent you to a WYD video because that is where you login. You must be a member to see the page. Just make an account on there and you can see the message. It takes five minutes at the most to do so. If you’d like not to find out if your line of thinking is completely wrong according to Catholic teaching or not, be my guest. But I really would like you to see the link.

Here is a small message Father Flynn says: “If you friend is very traditional then he should also be convinced of the pope’s authority. The rosary is a devotion and the pope has all the authority he needs to make alterations to devotions, so your friend’s objection is simply without foundation.”
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Sorry but Fr is going to have to do better than that, like for example provide some authority for his statements. Perhaps he should also in the interests of intellectual honesty point out that the Holy Father did not make the luminous mysteries compulsory, -indeed it is questionable whether he could do so-, and therefore his point about the popes authority is moot.
 
jmj1984 said:
I have never heard about a 20 bead rosary, neither apparently have St Louis de Montfort or St Alphonsus how odd… :rolleyes:
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Let me try to explain this again, there are one hundred beads on the Rosary. Each decade has twenty beads. It’s the Rosary twice itself. Those have been around for many years and have been used by Saints who have a devotion to Mary.
 
Hail Mary, full of grace
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou amongst women
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus

Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners
Now and at the hour of our deaths
Amen
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
Let me try to explain this again, there are one hundred beads on the Rosary. Each decade has twenty beads. It’s the Rosary twice itself. Those have been around for many years and have been used by Saints who have a devotion to Mary.
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but at Fatima Our Lady said pray the 15 mystery’s
 
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