The Russian Church and our Catholic Church

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I have read alot in different sites, and videos, that the union between the Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox Church is very close, so close that you could consider it partial-communion. What I want to know is is this true? And, really how are relations between us and the Russian Church?

Please don’t debate, that one little thing that I ask.
God Bless.
 
What perfect timing! I have new students who are Russian orthodox - someone please enlighten me with details.🙂
 
It is wishful thinking. There is no communion between the two.
 
LoyalViews said:
I have read alot in different sites, and videos, that the union between the Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox Church is very close, so close that you could consider it partial-communion. What I want to know is is this true? And, really how are relations between us and the Russian Church?

Please don’t debate, that one little thing that I ask.
God Bless.
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I’m surprised to hear you are seeing that on “alot in different sites, and videos”.

The current thread here Orthodox and Catholic representatives meet in Rimini has a number of posts concerning the idea of union in the near future.
 
Communion between the Russian Orthodox Church and the RCC is not even slightly close to happening. Anyone who says it is probably also rides a unicorn to work every day in Shangri-La.
 
Nine_Two said:
It is wishful thinking. There is no communion between the two.
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From my observation, there is at least an implicit acknowledgment by the Russian Orthodox of the validity of Catholic Orders and Sacraments. Not communion per se, but a better acknowledgment then by some.

I’m basing this off the idea that the Orthodox object to the establishment of a full Catholic diocese in Russia, because it to them suggests that the Catholic claim full ecclesiastic jurisdiction over Russia, as apposed to the previous Apostolic “out posts” set up to serve Catholics who happen to live in Russia.

On the one hand, the Russian Orthodox seem to recognize the ability of the Catholic Church to set up a diocese, by opposing that we do so. On the other hand, because the Catholics can’t be served by the existing eparchies and we need a parallel structure of some sort shows we are not in communion.

Nine_two, since you are Orthodox, I wonder if you could comment on my thought here offer your opinion. Sorry if I’m babbling a bit, its late and I’m sleepy 🙂
 
runningdude said:
I’m basing this off the idea that the Orthodox object to the establishment of a full Catholic diocese in Russia, because it to them suggests that the Catholic claim full ecclesiastic jurisdiction over Russia, as apposed to the previous Apostolic “out posts” set up to serve Catholics who happen to live in Russia.

On the one hand, the Russian Orthodox seem to recognize the ability of the Catholic Church to set up a diocese, by opposing that we do so.
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You are correct in that the Orthodox hold the Papacy in a type of higher regard. With this comes higher expectations.

But don’t hold your hopes too high, we are really not very close to sharing communion. Authors for Catholic news sources like to write articles extolling the ‘very near possibility’ but I suspect that has more to do with getting a by line and a check than anything more substantial. Expect to read more equally misleading articles in the future, you could write some yourself and pick up a few bucks ;).
 
While relations have certainly improved between MP and Pope, I have to agree with the earlier posters who have said the idea of full communion is a fantasy.

In all honesty, neither MP nor EP are anywhere close to accepting Vatican I, or any other significant developments in the understanding of Papal power after 1000 and the Gregorian reform.

I don’t think you are seeing anything more here than the willingness of the MP to make common cultural cause with the Papacy in combatting what it sees as the deleterious effects of the modern West.
 
runningdude said:
From my observation, there is at least an implicit acknowledgment by the Russian Orthodox of the validity of Catholic Orders and Sacraments. Not communion per se, but a better acknowledgment then by some.

I’m basing this off the idea that the Orthodox object to the establishment of a full Catholic diocese in Russia, because it to them suggests that the Catholic claim full ecclesiastic jurisdiction over Russia, as apposed to the previous Apostolic “out posts” set up to serve Catholics who happen to live in Russia.

On the one hand, the Russian Orthodox seem to recognize the ability of the Catholic Church to set up a diocese, by opposing that we do so. On the other hand, because the Catholics can’t be served by the existing eparchies and we need a parallel structure of some sort shows we are not in communion.

Nine_two, since you are Orthodox, I wonder if you could comment on my thought here offer your opinion. Sorry if I’m babbling a bit, its late and I’m sleepy 🙂
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While I don’t know if the Russians recognize Catholic Orders and Sacraments on an official level, I would agree there is a greater tendency to recognize them, however that is a far cry from being in communion with them. It would be like a Baptist claiming that since Catholics recognize them as Christian while they don’t make the same recognition of Mormons, the Baptists must be in near communion with the Catholics.

The MP (Moscow Patriarchate) doesn’t want anyone to establish diocese in Russia except themselves. They don’t want Protestants either, that doesn’t mean they recognize Protestants as being anything more.

My opinion is that Communion is a long way off. The two sides have mutually exclusive demands and they aren’t going to back off any time soon.
 
LoyalViews said:
I have read alot in different sites, and videos, that the union between the Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox Church is very close, so close that you could consider it partial-communion. What I want to know is is this true? And, really how are relations between us and the Russian Church?

Please don’t debate, that one little thing that I ask.
God Bless.
Click to expand...
Is Pope Benedict going to come out and renounce Papal Infallibility, universal jurisdiction, the Immaculate Conception and the filioque? If not then we are nowhere close to communion. 🙂
 
josephdaniel29 said:
Is Pope Benedict going to come out and renounce Papal Infallibility, universal jurisdiction, the Immaculate Conception and the filioque? If not then we are nowhere close to communion. 🙂
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I think Pope Benedict is ready to renounce Papal infallibility, Universal jurisdiction and filioque, as far as the Immaculate conception if you actually read the services for the feast of the conception of St. Ann the Orthodox already believe in it. 😃
 
Badaliyyah said:
While relations have certainly improved between MP and Pope, I have to agree with the earlier posters who have said the idea of full communion is a fantasy.

In all honesty, neither MP nor EP are anywhere close to accepting Vatican I, or any other significant developments in the understanding of Papal power after 1000 and the Gregorian reform.

I don’t think you are seeing anything more here than the willingness of the MP to make common cultural cause with the Papacy in combatting what it sees as the deleterious effects of the modern West.
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I dont believe the Orthodox are ready to accept Vatican I etc, but is the pope ready to renounce them? 🙂 (I think he is)
 
We should note that among the greatest promoters of papal power in the sixth century and elsewhere were . . . the Orthodox Christians.

They needed the Pope to referee the conflicts between the Emperor and Patriarch (and were only too happy to have popes in Rome with jurisdiction).

As for papal jurisdiction, this was first practiced by the Pope of Alexandria who held absolute jurisdiction over Christian Africa, over every priest and parish church (indeed, he was called the “New Pharaoh”).

There is nothing to protest about the papal prerogatives if the East and West could agree that papal jurisdiction would be exercised over an Eastern Church only if that Church would ask for it (or if someone in the East needed to appeal to Rome if talks with their patriarch broke down etc.). As for papal infallibility - both sides could agree that such were exercised when a pope ratifies the decisions of an Ecumenical Council of the Church. When the pope proclaimed the dogma of the Assumption, for example, he actually appealed to the bishops of the world for their view on this - very much, but not exactly, like an Ecumenical Council thing.

Alex
 
Alexander_Roman said:
As for papal infallibility - both sides could agree that such were exercised when a pope ratifies the decisions of an Ecumenical Council of the Church.
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No we couldn’t agree on that because it doesn’t fit with Orthodox conciliarity. 🙂
 
ciero said:
I think Pope Benedict is ready to renounce Papal infallibility, Universal jurisdiction and filioque, as far as the Immaculate conception if you actually read the services for the feast of the conception of St. Ann the Orthodox already believe in it. 😃
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No one can renounce the truth, as the truth is the truth, and the truth cannot be changed. Papal infallibility is a truth, therefore cannot be renounced. Universal jurisdiction is in the Bible, and the truth, and so is the filioque, though I don’t want this to become a debate…

As far as I knew…I thought the Orthodox saw our orders as valid:confused: The orders of the Orthodox most certainly are valid, as they are an Apostolic Church, Therefore have valid orders and a valid eucharist…but not licit.

I suppose what I read WAS wishful thinking…I wish I weren’t as gullable (sp?)!
 
Nine_Two said:
It is wishful thinking. There is no communion between the two.
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There is no official communion on a corporate level.
On a practical level, some intercommunion exists, especially in remote areas, and from the Catholic side, is permitted.

Corporate reunification is closer than ever before, and yet, is still a Long way off.
 
Aramis said:
There is no official communion on a corporate level.
On a practical level, some intercommunion exists, especially in remote areas, and from the Catholic side, is permitted.

Corporate reunification is closer than ever before, and yet, is still a Long way off.
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That’s good news! Only, not so much as they are still a long way off.
 
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