The Sacraments of Initiation

[lookaround]

The Sacraments of Initiation leave an indellible mark on your soul meaning conversion to the Church is permanent. If you decide to leave after because you decide you never believed in Dogma or Doctrine than you basically place yourself in a sinful state by not upholding the precepts such as mass attendance, confession, eucharist, tithing, and fasting.

Is this post accurate?

 

[thistle]

Is this post accurate?

Once a person becomes a Catholic and they afterwards reject one or more of the Church teachings then they are committing heresy and are in a state of mortal sin. If they die unrepentent they condemn themselves to Hell.

 

[NHInsider]

Which is why there is such a “process” for entering the Church. It’s not joining a club, it’s being adopted. Once you’ve been legally adopted into a family, you’re part of that family, even if you decide you hate them and avoid all future contact.

 

[Todd_Easton]

It is true that the sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation leave indelible marks on a person’s soul, permanently reconfiguring it for the indwelling of Holy Spirit and the reception of the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that those sacraments aren’t repeatable.

It is also true that rejecting dogmas and disciplines of the Church or leaving the Church altogether is grave matter but whether doing so is also a sin or not depends on the fullness of the person’s knowledge and the freedom of his consent, which only God can truly judge.

By the way, there is no tithing precept.

 

[1ke]

Is this post accurate?

Yes, generally speaking it is accurate.

 

[paul_c]

Quote:

The Sacraments of Initiation leave an indellible mark on your soul meaning conversion to the Church is permanent. If you decide to leave after because you decide you never believed in Dogma or Doctrine than you basically place yourself in a sinful state by not upholding the precepts such as mass attendance, confession, eucharist, tithing, and fasting.

First of all, here are the 7 precepts of the church:

I. To attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation, and resting from servile works.

II. To observe the days of abstinence and fasting.

III. To confess our sins to a priest, at least once a year.

IV. To receive Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist at least once a year during Easter Season.

V. To contribute to the support of the Church.

VI. To obey the laws of the Church concerning Matrimony.

VII. To participate in the Church’s mission of Evangelization of Souls.(Missionary Spirit of the Church

And yes, as a Catholic you are in a sinful state if you fail to do these things. But also as a Catholic, you can be reconciled to God and return to the state of grace by partaking of the sacrament of reconciliation in a faithful way. If you die in the state of grace, you will go to heaven.

 

[lookaround]

Once a person becomes a Catholic and they afterwards reject one or more of the Church teachings then they are committing heresy and are in a state of mortal sin. If they die unrepentent they condemn themselves to Hell.

While I can’t speak for everyone. I know that I can only believe what I can believe and I have to follow what I think is right.

 

[Della]

While I can’t speak for everyone. I know that I can only believe what I can believe and I have to follow what I think is right.

Of course. This is true for everyone. No one can force anyone to believe what he does not know or cannot accept. This is the situation that Todd Easton addressed in his post. In order for a person, Catholic or otherwise, to be guilty of a grave sin he must meet three conditions: He must know that it’s a grave sin, he must commit it freely, and he must commit willingly. If a person does not know the precepts of the Church he isn’t culpable for them. The precepts are still grave matters, but those who do not know this or do not know the precepts cannot be considered guilty of committing an offense against them.

God is a fair judge who doesn’t look for sin where it doesn’t exist nor hold people accountable for what they cannot know or cannot accept (due to what is termed “invincible ignorance”). He judges us by the grace we are given and what we do with that grace.

 

[lookaround]

God is a fair judge

amen!
His judgments are true

 

[Della]

amen!
His judgments are true

Indeed. Do you have any more questions/concerns regarding the Sacraments of Initiation?

 

[Todd_Easton]

…depends on the fullness of the person’s knowledge…

In this case, “the fullness of the person’s knowledge” is not simply how well-versed a person is in the teachings of the Catholic Church but also how much of those teachings a person knows or believes to be true or suspects to be true. Sin involves rejecting what a person knows to be true or suspects to be true. As the Bible says, “Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.” (James 4:17)

 

[lookaround]

In this case, “the fullness of the person’s knowledge” is not simply how well-versed a person is in the teachings of the Catholic Church but also how much of those teachings a person knows or believes to be true or suspects to be true. Sin involves rejecting what a person knows to be true or suspects to be true. As the Bible says, “Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.” (James 4:17)

interesting

 

[lookaround]

Indeed. Do you have any more questions/concerns regarding the Sacraments of Initiation?

How long should it usually take?

I would also be interested in know why the statement of faith (which is usually made), does not have more “Catholic” question.

Do you believe in Papal Infallibility?
Do you believe Mary was immaculately conceived?
Do you believe Mary was assumed into heaven?

 

[thistle]

How long should it usually take?

I would also be interested in know why the statement of faith (which is usually made), does not have more “Catholic” question.

Do you believe in Papal Infallibility?
Do you believe Mary was immaculately conceived?
Do you believe Mary was assumed into heaven?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church contains a summary of all Church teachings and has 2865 paragraphs. Are you suggesting that 2865 questions should be included?

 

[Della]

How long should it usually take?

I’m sorry but I don’t understand what you are asking here.

I would also be interested in know why the statement of faith (which is usually made), does not have more “Catholic” question.

Do you believe in Papal Infallibility?
Do you believe Mary was immaculately conceived?
Do you believe Mary was assumed into heaven?

The precepts are what Catholics must do, not what Catholics must believe. What we believe is stated in the Nicene and Apostles Creed (and other such creeds from antiquity). Everything stated in the Creed is Catholic teaching in kernel form. When we say we believe in one, catholic Church within the Creed we are saying we believe all the Church teaches regarding what makes the Church one and catholic and one of those things is papal infallibility. Our Catechism goes into more depth about these things.

When we sing the Divine Praises we do declare our belief in the Marian dogmas you cite, but papal infallibility is not a part of the Divine Praises but it is a dogma of the Church, none the less.

And what does this tell us about the Catholic faith? That it is deep and rich and varied and relevant and alive. It’s like a banquet with many good things to eat and drink. It’s why we invite everyone to dive in an enjoy all the Church has to offer.

 

[1ke]

How long should it usually take?

That depends upon the individual. There isn’t any set amount of time.

The unbaptized and “unchurched” people would receive instruction for between one and three years. This would depend upon their spiritual readiness and other factors. They would receive the sacraments at Easter vigil mass unless there were some extenuating circumstance.

Those who are already baptized could enter the Church and complete the sacrametns of initiation whenever they and the pastor decide, anywhere from a few months to a year or so. It would depend upon their level of spiritual readiness and their prior catechesis. The could be received into the Church any time, they do not have to be received at Easter vigil.

I would also be interested in know why the statement of faith (which is usually made), does not have more “Catholic” question.

Do you believe in Papal Infallibility?
Do you believe Mary was immaculately conceived?
Do you believe Mary was assumed into heaven?

Those received into the Church make a profession of faith. They state, “I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.”

Individual questions are redundant.

 

[lookaround]

Those received into the Church make a profession of faith. They state, “I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.”

Individual questions are redundant.

Renunciation of Sin and Profession of Faith

* Do you reject Satan?

  Reply: *

* And all his works?

  Reply: *

* And all his empty promises?

  Reply: *

* Do you believe in the God the Father, almighty, creator of heaven and earth?

  Reply: *

* Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?

  Reply: *

* Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?

  Reply: *

* Is it your will that [Name] be baptized in the faith of the Church, which we have all professed with you?

  Reply: ********

 

[1ke]

Renunciation of Sin and Profession of Faith

That is the renewal of **baptismal promises **and the **Nicene Creed **in interogatory form. **Everyone **present responds.

We also do this in the Mass every Easter, several other times during the year, and when there are baptisms. We say the Nicene Creed every Sunday, it’s in this quesetion/answer form at specific times of the year. I’m surprised you do not regonize the Creed.

Separately, those entering the Church make the statement I gave you above individually.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

Renunciation of Sin and Profession of Faith

* Do you reject Satan?

  Reply: *

* And all his works?

  Reply: *

* And all his empty promises?

  Reply: *

* Do you believe in the God the Father, almighty, creator of heaven and earth?

  Reply: *

* Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?

  Reply: *

* Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?

  Reply: *

* Is it your will that [Name] be baptized in the faith of the Church, which we have all professed with you?

  Reply: ********

Ummm… These are Catholic questions… This is as Catholic as it gets. If you mean, “why do they not ask about Mary’s Perpetual Virginity, Papal Infallibility, Purgatory, etc…” then you should know the answer to it. If the priest asks, “Do you believe in… the Holy Catholic Church…?” and they reply “I do” then that would show that they do believe everything the Church teaches. It would be ridiculous do believe in the Church and not believe what she teaches.