The sad state of affairs in the Diocese of Steubenville regarding the Motu Proprio

[Ite_ad_Ioseph]

So, here’s the deal:
Bishop Conlon released this: wdtprs.com/blog/2007/07/spooky-summorum-pontificum-memo-from-bp-of-steubenville-to-priests/

He says no celebrations of the Traditional Rite are allowed until he is sure they can be done successfully.
It makes sense, but the Motu says the bishop’s permission at all ins’t needed.
The people commenting on wdtprs are JACKED,or, as they say, p*ssed off. Some called for his, I don’t know, firing, if that is possible.
Others said he should be reported to Ecclesia Dei. In the past, Bishop Conlon denied the indult, as he said in the diocesan newspaper, on the consultation of the presbyterial college.

This concerns me directly, because I am in the process of learning the TLM with an older, retired priest to eventually offer it at our small church in the south of the diocese, and he and I have talked about the bishop’s role here, and he is doing something he would say is illegal according to the motu, or as the bishop said, moto. That he doesn’t even know the term scares me.
I know this priest really well, he is the kind who would take this to the Pope to have a TLM, because he express his disdain to me once about bishops who did this, and he seemed, well, p*ssed. And guess what- that kind of bishop may be in our diocese. What are we do to? Any suggestions? And Merry Christmas.
Pax et Bonum, Ioseph

 

[Dempsey1919]

Pray for your Bishop and ask the Lord to soften his heart. I would also suggest that you write him a letter asking for his support of the Motu Proprio and the celebration of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. I would also recommend that you write to Ecclesia Dei as they would be able to advise you further.

In cases such as this, we must all remember love and charity. However, we must also remember that the Holy Father has clearly granted his permission for the EF to be celebrated, and it would appear that your Bishop is going against the will of the Pope. For this reason, I feel that you would be perfectly justified in writing a letter of complaint to the Ecclesia Dei Commission.

Please write to the Bishop and to Ecclesia Dei.

 

[ASD]

Yea, that kind of bullying should be resisted.

I think it’s important for you to follow the rules carefully. Here a page offering suggestions about how to deal with bishops et al, including how to write to Ecclesia Dei.

As Fr. Z frequently points out, it’s all about documentation calmly presented.

Keep us posted.

ASD​

Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar

 

[Torroidial]

I appreciate the safeguard coming from the bishop. The MP makes it clear that celebrating the EF no longer requires the specific consent of the local bishop.

On the other hand ALL Masses require his consent from a “quality of celebration” standpoint. If he wants to ensure that individual priests are sufficiently prepared to celebrate the EF in an acceptable manner before they do so publicly, then I think that’s fine.

I remember one bishop commented that no priest would celebrate the EF in his diocese without first showing a very rudimentary knowledge of Latin. He didn’t want priests faking it up there. That made sense too.

 

[PJM]

So, here’s the deal:
Bishop Conlon released this: wdtprs.com/blog/2007/07/spooky-summorum-pontificum-memo-from-bp-of-steubenville-to-priests/

He says no celebrations of the Traditional Rite are allowed until he is sure they can be done successfully.

It makes sense, but the Motu says the bishop’s permission at all ins’t needed.

The people commenting on wdtprs are JACKED,or, as they say, p*ssed off. Some called for his, I don’t know, firing, if that is possible.

Others said he should be reported to Ecclesia Dei. In the past, Bishop Conlon denied the indult, as he said in the diocesan newspaper, on the consultation of the presbyterial college.

This concerns me directly, because I am in the process of learning the TLM with an older, retired priest to eventually offer it at our small church in the south of the diocese, and he and I have talked about the bishop’s role here, and he is doing something he would say is illegal according to the motu, or as the bishop said, moto. That he doesn’t even know the term scares me.

I know this priest really well, he is the kind who would take this to the Pope to have a TLM, because he express his disdain to me once about bishops who did this, and he seemed, well, p*ssed. And guess what- that kind of bishop may be in our diocese. What are we do to? Any suggestions? And Merry Christmas.
Pax et Bonum, Ioseph

Reply:

There are two seperate issue here.

1. The rights and obligations of your Bishop.
2. The “rights” of the rest of us, priest included.

If I understand the situation correctly, the Bishop has expressed concern about the LM being said correctly.

If that is the primary issue, your Bishop is fullfilling his responsibility to insre that all Masses in his diocese are properly said.

You are correct in that the Holy Father has authorized the LM to be said without permission of the Local Ordianry, however, if one has chosen to request permission, and has been denined for any reason, one would be at risk of serious disobedience, in proceeding and over-ruling your Bishops decision.

My advice is to discuss the issue with your Spiritual advisor, and perhaps with another bishop? You might even request a meeting with your bishop to gain a fuller understanding of his position.

God is and has to be in charge, and everything happens for a (potentionally) good reason.

Moral theology has a tenent that claims that one may not do “an evil” in order to accomplish a greater good. However, one may do a lesser good in order to accomplish a greater good."

So the question is disobedience to ones bishop an “evil” or merely a “lesser good?” My take is that it would be an “evil.” But what the heck do I know?

I do know that given the limited information I have, it would be a serious error to participate in any effort to oust your Bishop. There are channels for just complaints. They should be used.

God makes special crosses for each of us to bear. Might this be one?

God bless you, and thank you for your ministery!

It occurs to me that htere might be someone at the University that
could give you better advice?

Merry Christmas,
PJM m.c.

 

[James0235]

I been to the Steubenville area a few times. What the bishop should be concerned about is making sure the OF is said correctly.

James

 

[Torroidial]

I been to the Steubenville area a few times. What the bishop should be concerned about is making sure the OF is said correctly.

James

My only exposure to Steubenville OH is Franciscan University. The Masses I attended there are glorious and huge. They are so packed it can be tough to find a place to stand. The ones I have attended are also wonderfully abuse-free.

While not really my cup o’ tea I marvel at the health and vibrancy of the charismatic renewal on that campus. A clear sign of the Holy Spirit at work that is no doubt discounted by some as “liturgical abuse(s).”

 

[ASD]

I appreciate the safeguard coming from the bishop. … ALL Masses require his consent from a “quality of celebration” standpoint. If he wants to ensure that individual priests are sufficiently prepared to celebrate the EF in an acceptable manner before they do so publicly, then I think that’s fine.

Of course that sounds reasonable. And you’re surely correct, from a certain point of view.

But, obviously, the issue is that some people suspect a double standard. Like, where’s the good bishop’s letter :re Redemptionis Sacramentum? What, e.g., did he do to ensure that was carefully implemented?

ASD​

Redemptionis Sacramentum

 

[malphono]

Of course that sounds reasonable. And you’re surely correct, from a certain point of view.

But, obviously, the issue is that some people suspect a double standard. Like, where’s the good bishop’s letter :re Redemptionis Sacramentum? What, e.g., did he do to ensure that was carefully implemented? …

I’ve never been to Steubenville and have no familiarity whatsoever with anything to do with the area, whether ecclesiastically or otherwise.

However, from what James0235 says

I been to the Steubenville area a few times. What the bishop should be concerned about is making sure the OF is said correctly.

along with the general tone of the OP, it sounds (at least it’s hinted at) that Steubenville diocese may not exactly be a bastion of liturgical purity, even in the OF. With that in mind, let’s consider the two possibilities that come to mind:

(1) If the above is NOT so, it could well be that the bishop in question is acting in good faith and actually is concerned about quality. In which case, Torroidial’s comment in post #4 is valid.

(2) If the above IS so, (and I repeat IF – as I said I have zero personal knowledge about Steubenville, and so I am not making accusations here, but merely referencing the above quotes plus the OP):
Ite ad Ioseph:

…
Others said he should be reported to Ecclesia Dei. In the past, Bishop Conlon denied the indult, as he said in the diocesan newspaper, on the consultation of the presbyterial college. …

it is quite likely the bishop himself doesn’t have a clue about how the EF is celebrated, and probably doesn’t much care. In such case what we most likely have is yet another of what I have come to call the “obstructionist bishops” who will do anything in their power (and often it’s not really in their power but they try to do it anyway) to inhibit the EF from being offered. If the preceding is true, a well-written query by the OP to Ecclesia Dei may be useful.

Experience in these fora tells me to add a disclaimer, though it may well be a waste of time:

In what is probably a vain attempt to forestall the usual sniping by OF diehards, I repeat that the remarks in (2) above are NOT AN ACCUSATION. They are purely possibilities (notice the IFs) that are based on the cited earlier posts and on experience with other ecclesiastical jurisdictions having bishops who are known to have, shall we say, a less than receptive attitude toward the EF. I am not baiting or sniping at anyone nor will I NOT be baited or sniped at, and will not deal with or respond to such attacks.

 

[Frosty]

The memo written by Bishop Conlon that is cited in the link provided by the OP was dated July 2007. Two months before Pope Benedict’s Motu Proprio came into effect and as of today, almost a year and a half old. Before anyone gets too incensed about it, it might be a good idea to find out what is happening in the Diocese of Steubenville now!

 

[erinelf88]

The Diocese of Steubenville is where I go to school, where I attend RCIA, and where I’ll hopefully be confirmed at Easter next year.

About the OF not being offered properly… the church I attend, the priest is a wonderful man who says mass in a more traditional manner- he sometimes even chants parts of the mass, and lets the choir use Latin at times. The other church near campus, however… is very liberal. In a bad way, anyway. God bless the priest there, I say that in all honesty, and I believe he is a good man. But that is the church where the RCIA director told us that Jesus didn’t actually say some of the stuff in the Gospels, it was just put in there to make Him look better.

Please, please pray for our diocese. I’m home from college right now, in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati, and I’m having a hard time finding a good mass to go to, that leans more towards the traditional lines as far as music and mass are concerned. Prayers are greatly appreciated.

 

[James0235]

My only exposure to Steubenville OH is Franciscan University. The Masses I attended there are glorious and huge. They are so packed it can be tough to find a place to stand. The ones I have attended are also wonderfully abuse-free.

Franciscan University has been my primary exposure to Masses in the diocese of Steubenville. Mostly these have been at conferences. And they have been utterly horrible each and every time.

While not really my cup o’ tea I marvel at the health and vibrancy of the charismatic renewal on that campus. A clear sign of the Holy Spirit at work that is no doubt discounted by some as “liturgical abuse(s).”

Every single Mass I have attended on campus (the last time was probably 2 or 3 years ago) had been ad-libbed or re-written by the priest. Each time they made up their own prayers or reworded them to the point where they were nearly unrecognizable.

I have seen the priests there drink water continually throughout the Mass. At first I just figured that maybe he was sick and thought it was no big deal - until at another Mass the same priest made sure to keep a cup of coffee nearby.

I have also seen what could probably best be described as Liturgical dancing around the altar by one priest.

Fortunately, I have heard that Masses on campus have improved drastically over the past couple of years. And I am glad to see that you have been there and not witnessed anything like this.

James

 

[scylla]

The best way to look at this objectively is to go to the website of the diocese or inquire with the diocese and see when they are holding training for the Priests to offer the Mass properly.

Here

If they are, then it would be evidence of an honest intent of the Bishop to ensure that Mass is done properly. If not, then there is a problem and the His Excellency needs our prayers.

Even in my diocese which is considered as a good example of a diocese gone wrong there are good things happening. We have liturgical classes on implementing Redemptionis Sacramentum (better late than never) and we have some parishes rediscovering the treasures of the Catholic faith, with the EF and more and more faithfulness being expressed.

Sometimes there are those hippies in the diocese who gum up the works and keep the Bishops from doing their jobs. We should pray for him and encourage faithfulness.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Eucharisted]

Okay, so you don’t known for sure if the Bishop won’t allow the TLM?

Well, than here’s the thing: Don’t judge, else you be judged.

Pray for your Bishop, yes, but don’t judge. He may very well allow the TLM. You really don’t know.

If he dose not allow the TLM, however, so what? You don’t need his permission to celebrate the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. So it shouldn’t be a problem.

But just in case it dose become a problem - for example, if the Bishop writes to tell you to stop, or if he makes a visit to tell you to stop - than write a letter to the Vatican.

And pray for your Bishop. Prayer is always good and everyone needs it. Honor your father.

 

[CradleCath]

The memo written by Bishop Conlon that is cited in the link provided by the OP was dated July 2007. Two months before Pope Benedict’s Motu Proprio came into effect and as of today, almost a year and a half old. Before anyone gets too incensed about it, it might be a good idea to find out what is happening in the Diocese of Steubenville now!

From what I’ve heard (notice, I have no personal knowledge of same), but from what I’ve heard, Steubenville is a major center of the Catholic Charismatic movement…Catholics who are drawn to speaking in tongues & writhing on the floor just don’t seem the type to participate in the TLM.

It’s not that I’m against Charismatic Catholicism, it’s just that it would seem to be much to “emotion centered” to be in harmony with the EF. As for Bishop Conlon…come on, it’s been a year & a half since Pope Benedict approved the resurrection of the Tridentine Mass. Methinks the Bishop is stonewalling.

Fr. Z just published this email from another Steubenville student:

"Dear Fr. Zuhlsdorf,

"I have to say I was disappointed, but not terribly surprised
when I read your post on FUS’s reaction to students’ request for the Tridentine
Liturgy. When I was a Freshman at the University (13 years ago), Fr. Michael
Scanlan gave a homily on the Feast of Christ the King in which he
railed about how awful the days of the Traditional Latin Mass were; he
emphatically declared that he never wanted them back. He gave all the
usual reasons: old women would just prayed their rosaries; no one understood
what was going on, the priest offered Mass with his back to the
people, etc. **The Charismatic Movement was, in his opinion, a Spirit-given
remedy to bring people back into the Church. It was the only Mass on
campus that Sunday, so anyone who couldn’t get off campus was forced to listen to that homily. **"Yet, when the Holy Father permitted females to serve at the
altar, we were told (again at Mass) that the University had
to implement this permission, **because while we never wanted to be a step ahead
of the Holy Father, we never wanted to be a step behind either. We were to
embrace “dynamic orthodoxy” in its fullness (whatever that
means). **Of the entire student body, one female signed up to serve. When a
male friend of mine told the head of chapel ministries (a lay
woman) that he was fine with having female altar servers, but asked that
he just not be scheduled to serve with them, he was immediately dismissed from serving.

“Thank you, Fr. Zuhlsdorf, for making the situation at the
University public.** Parents considering the University for their need to be
aware of exactly how unfriendly the campus is to the TLM. And, the current
students definitely need our prayers. If the situation is anything like it was
when I was there, they are also persecuted for their love of the TLM in some of the theology classes.”**
Fr. Z also points out that the Rector of the Pontifical Lateran University warned his faculty in no uncertain terms that no student would be treated differently because of an interest in the older form of Mass.

 

[Torroidial]

Franciscan University has been my primary exposure to Masses in the diocese of Steubenville. Mostly these have been at conferences. And they have been utterly horrible each and every time.

Every single Mass I have attended on campus (the last time was probably 2 or 3 years ago) had been ad-libbed or re-written by the priest. Each time they made up their own prayers or reworded them to the point where they were nearly unrecognizable.

I have seen the priests there drink water continually throughout the Mass. At first I just figured that maybe he was sick and thought it was no big deal - until at another Mass the same priest made sure to keep a cup of coffee nearby.

I have also seen what could probably best be described as Liturgical dancing around the altar by one priest.

Fortunately, I have heard that Masses on campus have improved drastically over the past couple of years. And I am glad to see that you have been there and not witnessed anything like this.

James

Each Mass I have been to there has been by the book. I cannot explain your experiences.

 

[Catholic_Rube]

From what I’ve heard (notice, I have no personal knowledge of same), but from what I’ve heard, Steubenville is a major center of the Catholic Charismatic movement…Catholics who are drawn to speaking in tongues & writhing on the floor just don’t seem the type to participate in the TLM.

It’s not that I’m against Charismatic Catholicism, it’s just that it would seem to be much to “emotion centered” to be in harmony with the EF. As for Bishop Conlon…come on, it’s been a year & a half since Pope Benedict approved the resurrection of the Tridentine Mass. Methinks the Bishop is stonewalling.

Fr. Z just published this email from another Steubenville student:

"Dear Fr. Zuhlsdorf,

"I have to say I was disappointed, but not terribly surprised
when I read your post on FUS’s reaction to students’ request for the Tridentine
Liturgy. When I was a Freshman at the University (13 years ago), Fr. Michael
Scanlan gave a homily on the Feast of Christ the King in which he
railed about how awful the days of the Traditional Latin Mass were; he
emphatically declared that he never wanted them back. He gave all the
usual reasons: old women would just prayed their rosaries; no one understood
what was going on, the priest offered Mass with his back to the
people, etc. **The Charismatic Movement was, in his opinion, a Spirit-given
remedy to bring people back into the Church. It was the only Mass on
campus that Sunday, so anyone who couldn’t get off campus was forced to listen to that homily. **"Yet, when the Holy Father permitted females to serve at the
altar, we were told (again at Mass) that the University had
to implement this permission, **because while we never wanted to be a step ahead
of the Holy Father, we never wanted to be a step behind either. We were to
embrace “dynamic orthodoxy” in its fullness (whatever that
means). **Of the entire student body, one female signed up to serve. When a
male friend of mine told the head of chapel ministries (a lay
woman) that he was fine with having female altar servers, but asked that
he just not be scheduled to serve with them, he was immediately dismissed from serving.

“Thank you, Fr. Zuhlsdorf, for making the situation at the
University public.** Parents considering the University for their need to be
aware of exactly how unfriendly the campus is to the TLM. And, the current
students definitely need our prayers. If the situation is anything like it was
when I was there, they are also persecuted for their love of the TLM in some of the theology classes.”**
Fr. Z also points out that the Rector of the Pontifical Lateran University warned his faculty in no uncertain terms that no student would be treated differently because of an interest in the older form of Mass.

Ummm for your information sir I am a freshman at FUS currently and the High Mass is offered once a month, and the Low Mass every other week…

 

[Extempore]

Ummm for your information sir I am a freshman at FUS currently and the High Mass is offered once a month, and the Low Mass every other week…

I am an FUS alum, and from what I had heard recently the TLM was being offered both on campus as well as in downtown Steubenville.

When I was there, I couldn’t stand the fact that that aquiescance to Charasmatic Catholicism was implied by the campus ministry. Glad to see things are taking a turn for the better.

Good luck with the school, Catholic Rube!

 

[Ite_ad_Ioseph]

Wow, it seems my diocese sometimes is terrible and sometimes is okay. It is still not great though. I would love to live near a FSSP parish right now.