The Saint within

[beckycmarie]

Heck, beckycmarie is now pointing the OP to a link about Satan’s strategies. How she came up with this idea after reading the article, is beyond me.

I saw nothing satanic in the article or website, to jump to such a conclusion, merely because its not Catholic, is more dangerous and sets oneself up where they begin to embrace religious bigotry.

Jim

Jim, the article was about plausibility, the liberal mindset that all opinions are equal and that there is no objective truth.

That which leads us away from the truth could very well be a demonic deception, since Satan is a liar and the father of lies.

I think you would benefit from the article as well, as you seem to be caught up in some plausibility yourself, or perhaps just a lack of discernment.

 

[soma]

Thank you for your concern, but I feel if I dwell in the consciousness of God as the infinite Power then no human, devil or evil can do me harm. God is the one Power, the All-powerful and the only Power that we acknowledge, nothing less than Omnipresence. When I came to understand this fact and the interconnectedness of all things, I started to know love; and peace. I feel, if I keep my mind centered on God then Satan has no power because God is the strongest force.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Jim, the article was about plausibility, the liberal mindset that all opinions are equal and that there is no objective truth.

That which leads us away from the truth could very well be a demonic deception, since Satan is a liar and the father of lies.

I think you would benefit from the article as well, as you seem to be caught up in some plausibility yourself, or perhaps just a lack of discernment.

I don’t see that they are saying all opinions are equal, but rather, that a relationship with God is available to everyone who seeks Him.

Remember, the Church has the fullness of “revealed” truth, but not the the entire truth. Only God has this.

Jim

 

[water]

Who has read this book which is posted on the site in the OP’s post?

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7206/pdfcoverspineov4.jpg

 

[beckycmarie]

Who has read this book which is posted on the site in the OP’s post?

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7206/pdfcoverspineov4.jpg

I haven’t and I definitely won’t be reading it based on that cover.

I thought loving God was the ultimate Christian goal, not “evolution of consciousness.”

 

[beckycmarie]

Thank you for your concern, but I feel if I dwell in the consciousness of God as the infinite Power then no human, devil or evil can do me harm.

If this is true, then how do you explain Christ’s death on the cross?

Are you saying Christ Himself wasn’t enlightened enough to avoid the harm of humans, devils, or evil?

How about the martyrs? Based on your beliefs, those saints were not “dwelling in the consciousness of God” either.

Christ tells us to take up our crosses and follow Him. That website promotes the doctrine of demons by suggesting that we avoid the cross and worship ourselves. That way of thinking, by the way, is also the basis of the Satanism.

Dangerous material indeed, and completely incompatible with Catholic beliefs.

 

[InLight247]

Jim,

All I want to say is when there are so many classic Church Fathers’ teachings, I would spend no time to explore or defend any questionable website.

While reading that front page, my spirit became very uncomfortable. I immediately stopped. There is no need to explore further. I followed my heart and shared my perception out of good intention. My 2 cents are done.

Stick to the Saints like St. Teresa, ST. Therese, St. John, St. Francis de Sales,
St. Faustina….already made me busy enough.

And I don’t consider believing in the true teachings of the true Church as bigotry.

 

[beckycmarie]

I don’t consider believing in the true teachings of the true Church as bigotry.

 

[soma]

If this is true, then how do you explain Christ’s death on the cross?

Are you saying Christ Himself wasn’t enlightened enough to avoid the harm of humans, devils, or evil?

God died for our sins and it shows His love to the world.

I said God was the strongest force. Why would you think the devil is punishing Christ? You give Satan power. Think of God and Satan will not affect you. Think of Satan, talk about him and you give him power.

 

[beckycmarie]

God died for our sins and it shows His love to the world.

I said God was the strongest force. Why would you think the devil is punishing Christ? You give Satan power. Think of God and Satan will not affect you. Think of Satan, talk about him and you give him power.

Satan was involved in Jesus’ passion:

Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. John 13:26-27

Please show me what Catholic source teaches that thinking or talking about Satan gives him power. If this is true, why would there be so many references to Satan in the Bible?

 

[soma]

Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Are you the judge of what is evil? If not rejoice in the Lord.

 

[beckycmarie]

Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

None of those passages have anything to do with thinking about or talking about the devil and giving him “power” by doing so.

I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus who is to judge the living and the dead,… preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching. For a time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.—2 Timothy 4:2-4

 

[soma]

Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

As Catholics there are times when some think about Satan, especially if they want to attack another. So where will Satan attack, it is in the mind. He knows that our thoughts are the beginnings of everything we do. Satan wants us to think negative, critical and judgmental thoughts so that we miss out on what God has for us. Satan wants us negative so we are ineffective. I say control of your thoughts with thoughts about God.

None of those passages have anything to do with thinking about or talking about the devil and giving him “power” by doing so.

Corinthians 10:5 (King James Version) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Shouldn’t we try to have the very mind of Jesus Christ, bringing absolutely every thought into captivity or control? You don’t think God expects us to control our own minds?

Rejoice in the Lord and don’t cower from the devil.

 

[DBT]

I have no idea of the merits of this web site but I do know that human language often utterly fails in describing anything mystical. Communication breakdowns, IMO, are what kills so many of these types of threads and is the mystical Doctor’s lament expressed so often in their writings.

Not to digress, but here’s two mystical themes put forth by titans of our own Church that might be considered “out there” due to the failure of human language to describe what ultimately can’t be described.

1. In The Living Flame St. John of the Cross describes the center of the soul as containing many levels. This, too, is St. Teresa’s intent behind her concept of the mansions. St. Benedicta of the Cross (Edith Stein) expands upon St. John’s teaching on the “levels of center” by describing the “I-Being.” The “I-Being” is one who might live in it’s center . . . but not it’s deepest center . . . because remnants of selfish clingings that have yet to be purged prevent the soul from being completely one with the Indwelling Trinity. Thus, perfection is a relative thing measured by one’s distance in it’s center from it’s deepest center – ego and self being what seperates God and soul.
2. When the soul is finally perfected and purged of all traces of egoism and self, it then lives in its deepest center with the indwelling Trinity – this is the transformative effect of the Spiritual Marriage. Along these lines, St. John goes so far as to say the perfected soul becomes God by participation. This is a core teaching of his.

These are concepts, I believe, that can only be understood through direct experience . . . language doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of what these Saints are trying to say. And with the wrong context these type of mystical expressions can be greatly mis-understood.

Dave.

 

[soma]

Thank you. What you wrote is very powerful and encouraging. One can see the relationship with God is deep and close because the understanding and commitment is there.

 

[InLight247]

by DBT

1. In The Living Flame St. John of the Cross describes the center of the soul as containing many levels. This, too, is St. Teresa’s intent behind her concept of the mansions.

1. When the soul is finally perfected and purged of all traces of egoism and self, it then lives in its deepest center with the indwelling Trinity – this is the transformative effect of the Spiritual Marriage. Along these lines, St. John goes so far as to say the perfected soul becomes God by participation. This is a core teaching of his.

And with the wrong context these type of mystical expressions can be greatly mis-understood.

Hi, Dave,

What you quoted above are very profound teachings of the Saints.
Only when a soul is purified and perfected and reach the spiritual marriage, it can become God by participation. This “become”, to my understanding, is by the meaning of complete union with God, the 7th mansion of St. Teresa’s. This union can only be achieved after total purification and by God’s infused grace. Without a good understanding of the Saints’ teaching, this concept could easily be misunderstood.

What St. John is saying is far apart from New Age’s belief of “each person is a God”.

Catholic mystics and New Age mystics(if there is) are two different groups, yes?

I am not talking about the website from previous discussions.
Neither am I saying that website must be New Age. But New Age is popular today.

Since you are very well informed in St. John and St. Teresa, I am interested in hearing your opinion on the New Age theory, and how we as Catholics, can recognize its shadow and not mix them with the genuine teaching of the Church.

Hope you will share. Thanks.

 

[DBT]

Hi Inlight -

I don’t know what prompted me to write what I did or why I even opened the thread. The thoughts just filled my head and the words poured off my finger tips.

I’m not really well versed enough in New Age to comment on it. Where did it say it was New Age? All I know is I took a quick scan of the link in the original post and immediately “saw” glimpes of things similiar to what our Saints teach. Not a unified whole or anything like that . . . but bits and pieces . . . along with some obvious red flags.

My intent was never to defend the link but I did have a certain empathy for Soma because I saw how easily a new comer could get sucked into the vortex of a potentially nasty thread.

And it struck me how much language in these matters confuses more than clarifies. And how words are no substitute for experience. And how easy it is to jump to conclusions. And how all of us are led by different paths and none should dictate or meddle in the affairs of others . . . especially when we try to generalize our personal experience upon others. And why we should generally mistrust ourselves and our interpretation of things in all matters mystical (mea culpa). And that if we were truly “silent to self” we wouldn’t even bother to chime in because, at the end of the day, we’re just stroking our pride under the pretext of doing good (mea culpa again). And why even the Doctors of the Church are so often misunderstood in these matters and even persecuted. And why threads like this quicky fall apart . . . even when the intentions of all involved are pure.

All of this I saw wrapped up in that initial link. And I know that probably didn’t answer your question

Dave.

Note for the record: None of this is directed toward anyone in this thread so please no one take offense. These are just generalized observations of 4+ years history partaking in these types of threads.

 

[InLight247]

I don’t know what prompted me to write what I did or why I even opened the thread. The thoughts just filled my head and the words poured off my finger tips.

I hope you are not upset by my post. That will never be my intention.

I’m not really well versed enough in New Age to comment on it. Where did it say it was New Age? All I know is I took a quick scan of the link in the original post and immediately “saw” glimpes of things similiar to what our Saints teach. Not a unified whole or anything like that . . . but bits and pieces . . . along with some obvious red flags.

No, the link’s front page did not say anything that it is a New Age website. It was my “feeling” when I read it. And I am not saying my “feeling” must be right. Too many times I feel I know nothing. Honestly. But I am concerned about the popular “New Age” influence nowadays.

My intent was never to defend the link but I did have a certain empathy for Soma because I saw how easily a new comer could get sucked into the vortex of a potentially nasty thread.

I never thought you intended to defend the link. I was afraid your in-depth knowledge of St. John’s teaching stated in brief sentences, could be mistaken by people who are not familiar with St. John and think this “become God” is similar to “God is in all, and all is God”.

And it struck me how much language in these matters confuses more than clarifies.

Exactly.

Just want to let you know, Dave, your in-depth understanding of the Saints’ teaching always helps me tremendously. Since I know Church’s position is against New Age, and sometimes I myself am confused about the New Age talking, I thought about asking your insight about it.

I hope I expressed myself, but I know I didn’t. I just don’t know how to tell you what I want to say. I feel so sorry.

 

[beckycmarie]

Soma,

The point I’m trying to get across is that the thinkunity website you posted is a New Age spirituality not unlike “A Course in Miracles” and “A New Earth,” both being promoted by Oprah and her New Age cronies.

What is being described on that site is a spirituality at odds with Christianity.

If you are truly interested in Christian Mysticism, then stick with Catholic authors loyal to the truth, and not the writings of wolves in sheep’s clothing.

What you will find, if you follow the methods promoted on thinkunity.com, is that instead of getting closer to God, you will be moving further away. People who dabble in that type of thing often find themselves demonized, and New Age dabbling often leads to some nasty cases of demonization. I do some volunteer work with a deliverance ministry and truly this new age stuff is a plague that often requires many hours of counseling and lots of prayer for someone to recover from.

I’m not pointing out the problems with thinkunity.com to pick a fight, or to prove I’m right, but because I am concerned for you and your involvement in it.

If you truly believe what you preach, then perhaps it’s time to expand your own thinking and look into embracing some solid Catholic beliefs, rather than chasing after that which will lead you away from God.

There are a variety of Catholic writers - Saints and modern writers -who have much to say on the topic of Christian mysticism. But before you can achieve that kind of contemplation you’re going to have to begin with a basic conversion back to the truth, and an acceptance that what the Church teaches is the correct path.

 

[DBT]

I hope you are not upset by my post.

Not at all!

I feel so sorry.

Don’t be. If St. John and St. Teresa thought they sometimes made a muck of things just think how us mere mortals must feel. You’re doing great!

General comment for all: I really haven’t read all this too closely but certain things have stood out. Soma has made some interesting comments regarding “thoughts” — something that has very much been on my mind lately and a topic on which our Saints have much to say.

For anyone interested, please read St. John of the Cross “The Ascent of Mt. Carmel” Book 3, Chapters 1-15. Here he describes the active night of the spirit: the purification of our memory and the perfection of the virtue of hope. In modern day terms, “thought control” might be a very good sub-title.

Dave.