The Saint within

[water]

Since some mentioned about New Age here, I have a friend who claimed to be a Catholic, but overtime, after the friend spends time with the new age, this friend no longer identify himself as a Christian. However, sometimes, when being asked, this person still says “I am a Catholic”. The worst part is he stops going to church and starts look into himself for God’s presence.

He would pick several verses from the Bible and few things from Buddhism for his belief.

 

[beckycmarie]

Since some mentioned about New Age here, I have a friend who claimed to be a Catholic, but overtime, after the friend spends time with the new age, this friend no longer identify himself as a Christian. However, sometimes, when being asked, this person still says “I am a Catholic”. The worst part is he stops going to church and starts look into himself for God’s presence.

He would pick several verses from the Bible and few things from Buddhism for his belief.

That’s the tricky part about Christian mysticism is that you do become closer to the indwelling Trinity in your soul, and it can sound like some things the new agers talk about.

However, reaching that kind of contemplation requires a level of holiness that would be negated by not going to Church and living in a state of sin. You have to have sanctifying grace first.

The thing is you can’t force God to give you this gift by any effort on your own. You can only grow in holiness, have a consistent prayer life which includes daily meditation, and then wait patiently for God to give you that gift when He knows you’re ready for it.

I’m still waiting for it myself.

 

[DBT]

I’m still waiting for it myself.

. . . and maybe Soma’s not?

What’s she? saying that so terrible and frightening: love, peace, unity, the essential interconnectedness of it all? Is it beyond comprehension she might have been given the gift of sight?

Our saints can be read on so many levels . . . our personal experience being the barometer by which we see and interpret. And that’s why these threads breakdown.

Along these lines, I keep thinking of St. John and the latter stanza’s of Spiritual Canticle. He too saw an essential unity, interconnectedness and beauty in all things: God in nature and others, others and nature in God. Read the wrong way, some might see pantheism and shout New Age . . . when in fact he was given a glimpse of the eternal that was truly awe inspiring. Unity and one-ness are what these latter stanza’s are all about.

Why can’t we give Soma the benefit of the doubt?

Dave.

 

[beckycmarie]

. . . and maybe Soma’s not?

Why can’t we give Soma the benefit of the doubt?

Dave.

I don’t doubt that Soma is sincerely seeking God and wanting the kind of close personal relationship that contemplation brings.

What I am saying is that Soma is reading a bad map trying to find the way.

What I am concerned about are the teachings being promoted on the thinkunity.com site, which are so obviously New Age that I am surprised - shocked, even, that you and Jim cannot see that. I pray the scales fall from the eyes soon.

I’m sure there is a little truth in what that site says, just as there is some truth in every protestant denomination, but Catholics wouldn’t encourage another Catholic to run off to another church to find God. Neither would they suggest “A Course in Miracles” is a good way to find Jesus.

 

[soma]

I don’t think the Catholic Church has anything to fear from New Age. New Age is nothing but a label put on something that people fear. I don’t know what New Age is, but I am not afraid of it, but I am afraid of the people who want to throw stones and burn books for no good reason.

I am impressed with the people who posted, who were obedient to their heavenly inspirations. They dug deep, were not afraid, and graced us with divine pearls of wisdom. They have the gift of understanding, one can tell they contemplate the divine mysteries
and can detach their thoughts from the negativity of the world. We can all learn by their example.

Can we discuss unity without being sidetracked into New Age. I feel unity is a kind of love, a remedy for the mind and can be a solution for our difficulties. Making our minds a channel for God’s pure consciousness is a kind of unity. It is not bad if it pours friendship, health, love and fortune back into this world. If it enables a Catholic to function at a much higher level eliminating fear from the body and impurities from the mind, which can cause disease and impede spiritual development, it is not bad, but a tool for the good. I feel the saints, Jesus and the disciples were explaining this in different words. I see nothing wrong in trying to explain it in today’s world.

 

[beckycmarie]

I agree, Soma. Let’s talk union with God and leave New Age out of it.

Here’s my website suggestion for those who want to learn about Christian mysticism:

Spiritual Theology
by Fr. Jordan Aumann

Intro:

In Spiritual Theology Father Jordan Aumann dispels the common misconception that ascetical and mystical theology is for the select few. He reminds us that “the real purpose of the study of the spiritual life is not to produce scholars but to form holy Christians.”

Basing much of his work on St. Thomas Aquinas, St. John of the Cross, and St. Teresa, Father Aumann proves that Christian perfection consists especially in charity, a charity richly rewarded in spiritual graces.

He presents the most complete and systematic treatment of spiritual theology since Vatican II. Comprehensive in scope, it meets the needs of seminarians, professors of spiritual theology, spiritual directors, and retreat masters. This classic will also appeal to the educated reader seeking a richer and fuller spiritual life.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

The third paragraph of that site tells you all you need to know about it in order to steer clear of it and avoid it like a plague. To tell you that organized religion is a hindrance to you and to delve into self in order to reach whatever (fill in the blank) they are trying to push off on you will enlighten you spiritually just is not so. So many of these sites use innocuous words and pious platitudes which mean nothing.
Follow the spirituality you will find in the Catholic Church. It only has two thousand years of experience, preceded by several thousand years of the Spirit leading the old testament prophets. Believe me, you will have more fulfillment on this path.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[InLight247]

The third paragraph of that site tells you all you need to know about it in order to steer clear of it and avoid it like a plague. To tell you that organized religion is a hindrance to you and to delve into self in order to reach whatever (fill in the blank) they are trying to push off on you will enlighten you spiritually just is not so. So many of these sites use innocuous words and pious platitudes which mean nothing.Follow the spirituality you will find in the Catholic Church. It only has two thousand years of experience, preceded by several thousand years of the Spirit leading the old testament prophets. Believe me, you will have more fulfillment on this path.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

You just said what I want to say but could not.

Catholics have nothing to fear about such things, but alertness and awareness are necessary.

Nowadays, we see so many sayings combine true Christianity teachings along with their own ideas to make the package ambiguious. It takes discernment to see the untrue part and not be tricked by the incooperated truth and think the entire package is authentic. When truth and lies are mixed together, even the package contains majority of the truth and smaller part of lies, it is not something I would delve into. It is not because I am afraid of it, it is because I only want to follow the whole truth not the partial one.

I once heard of a story that a father made a cake with one drop of manure, told his children, and ask them to eat the cake, none of the children wanted to try. That story made an impression in my mind.

 

[water]

I don’t think the Catholic Church has anything to fear from New Age. New Age is nothing but a label put on something that people fear. I don’t know what New Age is, but I am not afraid of it, but I am afraid of the people who want to throw stones and burn books for no good reason.

Then, you don’t know how many Catholics stop going to church after being involved with New Age. They would travel around the world to have a retreat at New Age group but they would skip the Christmas mass, etc …

That is something for us to think about.

 

[InLight247]

That is something for us to think about.

Yes, alertness.

 

[beckycmarie]

To Deacon Ed and InLight:



Brother Ignatius Mary over at Saint-Mike.org offers this analogy:

The Devil tends to manipulate human beings in two ways:

1. The grain of truth method
2. The poison apple method

As seen in the top drawing in the graphic below, people will often see the little grain of truth and then “presume” that all the rest in the circle around that grain is true too. Not necessarily.

The bottom drawing in the graphic represents the poison apple method. In this method people will see a ripe and juicy apple ready to eat and just eat it without cutting it open. The devil may have taken a hypodermic needle and inserted poison in the center. Without cutting the apple open to check for this, we bit into poison.

http://www.saint-mike.org/spcdc/bbs/images/add_satanicmethods.jpg

 

[DBT]

What I am saying is that Soma is reading a bad map trying to find the way.

. . . and I think everyone here, in their own way, is trying to bring all this back to the core teachings of the Church. Some by a gentle nudge, others by sledgehammer

Bottom line: I think our efforts will be more fruitful if we choose to be fishers of men rather than hunters. Otherwise, in our haste to correct the errors we see in others *we ourselves *risk the danger of falling into the trap of imprudent zeal. Ever wonder why St. Teresa discusses this in the earliest mansions?

Why can’t we let her speak . . . in her own words . . . and not judge her by a web link she happened to post? If God is leading her along the very intimate and personal path toward mystical union with Him, He will take care of His own.

Dave.

 

[beckycmarie]

I see what you’re saying, Dave. But when the first post made is not a question, but is posted in a Catholic spirituality forum as though what is being said is somehow consistent with Catholic teaching, it can lead others astray. Applying the sledgehammer to false teachings is sometimes necessary.

Now if Soma wants to talk true mysticism, I’ve made an attempt at reaching out with all the sweetness you suggest back in post #46.

 

[water]

. . . and I think everyone here, in their own way, is trying to bring all this back to the core teachings of the Church. Some by a gentle nudge, others by sledgehammer

Bottom line: I think our efforts will be more fruitful if we choose to be fishers of men rather than hunters. Otherwise, in our haste to correct the errors we see in others *we ourselves *risk the danger of falling into the trap of imprudent zeal. Ever wonder why St. Teresa discusses this in the earliest mansions?

Why can’t we let her speak . . . in her own words . . . and not judge her by a web link she happened to post? If God is leading her along the very intimate and personal path toward mystical union with Him, He will take care of His own.

Dave.

There are different types of people who defend their faith. Some people are to point out the errors, some are not good at that. Therefore, all the roles will balance out.

In this case, if a website posted to this CAF forum contains information that is not aligned with the teaching of the Church, it is perfectly fine to have those who point out the errors. We have seen people blindly following the errors in different situations, we should come to appreciate those who identify the errors.

All must do with love …but in love, there must be truth.

 

[DBT]

Ok fine.

But my guess is that Soma has been given a certain light . . . whether it’s a true light or false one none of us really knows from just a few paragraphs of writing. But I do know this, a sledgehammer is sure to drive her away.

But then we can all pat ourselves on the back because we were “right.”

Dave.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

But I do know this, a sledgehammer is sure to drive her away.Dave.

Drive her away from what. That New Age web site with a false doctrine or from us?
Too often people spend time trying to analyze the web sites instead of calling them what they are and saying straight out why. Why waste time with error, when you are seeking the truth. If the error is pointed out and a person persists in defending it, then perhaps an analysis for a proper explanation can be done, and given. If we did this on everything that came up, we would be tied down chasing fleas when the lion would be devouring.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[soma]

Cleansing the mind of negative thoughts, the feelings are indescribable as one advances and performs in the awareness of the saint within. Therefore, one should not deny the lowly ego it’s highest entitlement, which is to dive now and again into this special air of the saint that we inwardly admire. The goodness is quiet, it does not flash, but progresses with the inner growth of the individual. It is a deep and simple quiet that cannot pass as rhetoric because it is made up of minute pieces that soon become forgotten charities. It may be felt through the touch of a hand, a friendly smile, a kind look or a heartfelt compliment.

Here is the first post that some think is not Catholic.

Cleansing the mind of negative thoughts, the feelings are indescribable as one advances and performs in the awareness of the saint within.
Catholics have many saints, but only a few are aware of the saint within so we see many people negative to this idea. Get rid of these negative thoughts and feel the saint within is all this statement says.

**one should not deny the lowly ego it’s highest entitlement, which is to dive now and again into this special air of the saint that we inwardly admire. The goodness is quiet, it does not flash, but progresses with the inner growth of the individual. It is a deep and simple quiet that cannot pass as rhetoric because it is made up of minute pieces that soon become forgotten charities. **

Some think we should not try to be like the saints or develop ourselves because it is the devil tricking us. According to them we should not strive to be charitable, but repeat rhetoric about Satan and New Age to be good Catholics.

The following quotes come from the website posted earlier Spiritual Theology

“The word perfection signifies the state or condition of being completed or finished, without any excess or defect. In its Latin origin the word connotes the term of a process or activity (per factum), but in philosophy and theology the word has a wider application. The emphasis is rather on the aspect of totality or plenitude, and consequently a thing is said to be perfect when it has all the fullness of being that is due to it by reason of its essence or nature.”

“The perfection of the Christian life is constituted by the perfection of the double act of charity – primarily in relation to God and secondarily in relation to one’s neighbor. There is only one virtue and one infused habit of charity, by which we love God for himself and our neighbor and ourselves for God. All the acts that proceed from charity are specified by the same object, namely, the infinite goodness of God.”

 

[water]

what does this mean?

He (Jesus) was not interested in converting people to his way of thinking or selling real estate in heaven, but to guide people who were ready to go deeper into themselves and the spiritual experience of unity. The spiritual experience can’t be taught, but Jesus offered a way to the experience, where God’s pure consciousness could be felt.

source from page: thinkunity.com/page18.html

 

[InLight247]

Some think we should not try to be like the saints or develop ourselves because it is the devil tricking us. According to them we should not strive to be charitable, but repeat rhetoric about Satan and New Age to be good Catholics.

Please help me with the above quote.
Is this from the website? Or is this your own statement?
And what do you mean? Would you elaborate on it?

Who are the some who think we should not strive for holiness and charity? I thought it has been mentioned here and there about purification and holiness for the union with God. By what I have read so far on this thread, I only see the emphasis of sticking to the Church’s authentic teachings and strive for holiness.

I am very lost by reading the above quote.

 

[beckycmarie]

**one should not deny the lowly ego it’s highest entitlement, which is to dive now and again into this special air of the saint that we inwardly admire. The goodness is quiet, it does not flash, but progresses with the inner growth of the individual. It is a deep and simple quiet that cannot pass as rhetoric because it is made up of minute pieces that soon become forgotten charities. **

Some think we should not try to be like the saints or develop ourselves because it is the devil tricking us. According to them we should not strive to be charitable, but repeat rhetoric about Satan and New Age to be good Catholics.

Soma,

If you review the thread, you’ll see that I never suggested that we should not emulate the saints. We should emulate the saints, and we should especially work to become like Jesus and Mary.

There are a couple big problems with the statement "one should not deny the lowly ego it’s highest entitlement, which is to dive now and again into this special air of the saint that we inwardly admire."

One problem with that statement is that it suggests we admire ourselves. True contemplation is focused on admiring and loving God, not on admiring and loving ourselves.

Another problem is that in the spiritual life, we must decrease and allow God to increase in us. Without humility, pride becomes a huge stumbling block that keeps us stuck in place on our spiritual journey. Our egos are entitled to nothing, and we should be lowly if we wish to experience God deeply in contemplation.