The Same God or Not?

[trustme80]

please read it in context ( context - the entire verses related to it, before and after )
if you dont have a bible, get it !
if your opinions havent change,
OT was written thousands of years before Jesus.
It is a historical journal in chronological order, thus OT progressed to NT.
semibarbaric ( or even barbaric ) times > natural progression > the civilized world
harsh discipline > natural progression > human rights for the enlightened

islam is more retarded, thus doesnt fit the natural progression simple

i can explain it if you want me, or maybe you just have to read the quran and the complete volume of hadiths bukhari ( i have it, in case you’re wondering ), and secular, objective research on islam.

 

[ralphinal]

please read it in context ( context - the entire verses related to it, before and after )
if you dont have a bible, get it !
if your opinions havent change,
OT was written thousands of years before Jesus.
It is a historical journal in chronological order, thus OT progressed to NT.
semibarbaric ( or even barbaric ) times > natural progression > the civilized world
harsh discipline > natural progression > human rights for the enlightened

islam is more retarded, thus doesnt fit the natural progression simple

i can explain it if you want me, or maybe you just have to read the quran and the complete volume of hadiths bukhari ( i have it, in case you’re wondering ), and secular, objective research on islam.

I hope you mean retarded as backwards. I would hate to insult mentally challenged people.

 

[dolphinlove]

Look, when you believe in Islam, the Last Message of God, you are to believe in all the laws of God. You do not take some and leave some. If you do, you are not a true believer.

So why do Muslims only take ‘some’ of Gods laws from the bible?
You said all of Gods laws, the bible is Gods law.
This paragraph points out the wonderful contradiction that is Islam.
Well done revert

 

[dolphinlove]

It seems to me that you’re the one who keeps trying to force us to accept your beliefs by continuing to “shout” at us!

Vickie

wont be long before he is banned, then comes back as another name…

 

[trustme80]

i truly apologize for that
i forgot that i also have an autistic relative
backward is the word

thanks ralphinal

 

[ralphinal]

i truly apologize for that
i forgot that i also have an autistic relative
backward is the word

thanks ralphinal

I knew what you meant. I would not insult the disabled by calling the Muslims

 

[inJESUS]

You must prove your accusation that the Bible is God’s words with His authenticated approval.

God says it in the OT and NT on the tongues of many prophets…am sorry i don’t have God’s signature to show you…i have His words.

Now the Islamic reply is: corruption…the easiest response to any dilema.

So the scenario goes like this:

corrupt humans decided to attribute to Allah Omnipotence and Seriousness…(shame on them for attributing omnipotence and seriousness to Allah who is below such scandalous descriptions by corrupt humans)…so Allah watches humans writing he is serious about his words and his words last forever when in fact humans are elevating his character yet he decided to do nothing …so humans corrupt the words of many prophets when they write that God’s words stand forver…then comes Jesus who repeats the same…neither Jesus nor the Jews who followed Him pointed out to these “scandalous” teachings of the Jews but confirmed them…hmmm big problem…so Allah does not correct them…Allah decides to interfere some thousands of years later by sending a prophet asking people to find him in corrupt books and claiming his book is preserved…where was his power and seriousness before?talk about “wisdom”, “seriousness”, “omnipotence” and “justice” a la Islam. To believe that Allah took it seriously only with Muhammad and Arabbs and in Arabic proves Allah is a nationalist Arab called Muhammad. This is not the Lord of Israel who thwarts the plans of the wicked but a nationalist Arab who says Allah is his buddy and his book is the only preserved one and puts his hands on his ears and shouts “lalalala”.

No dear, God says He preserves His words because He is Holy, Omnipotent, Just and Serious about Himself and all humans.

** He told us Himself in the Quran**…

you know what circular reasoning is? the Quran is preserved because the Quran says so is circular reasoning since the Bible as well says so thousands of years before Muhammad was born as a pagan…and you are asking US to prove that all the prophets’ teachings (Jews and Christians) were corrupted because of a single Arab and without a proof? at least we have the words of many prophets sent to different people and in different times repeating the same including Jesus who’d have pointed it out yet did not…at least we have the NT and OT hundreds of years before Muhammad…am sure Christians wouldn’t have objected if Jesus said the words of God are corrupt by Jews…am sure Christians wouldn’t have inserted Jewish lies against Jesus’s words… but to your dismay Jesus does not because He knows better.

besides, WHERE is the book that Muhammad had with his hands and confirmed?

That is why no one can mess with the Quran

Ibn Mas’ud must be rolling in his grave for reading this because Uthman decided to add what the best reciter Ibn Mas’ud denies to be part of the Quran.

The Bible cannot speak. Words of men. I never said that prophets do not talk about God’s words. I say that what YALL CLAIM as being the word of Prophets, even the prophets have not authenticated it being from them! Nor does Jesus, nor does God Himself.

what kind of authentication do you need ? if Jews corrupted, what was Jesus and the disciples doing? correcting them yet Christians decided to keep quoting Jewish lies against Jesus’ words? talk about rationality.

You say, word and spirit when proven wrong…so they can be? Something is most definitely wrong when the Bible cannot prove itself and having the stamped approval from God.

do you have a logo about God’s approval? God’s approval is all prophets teaching the same and in harmony, not an Arab sent to Arabs with a book devoid of any theological harmony, composed according to length, opposing all previous prophets and claiming Allah finished designing his approval logo with him. The Lord of Israel existed before Muhammad; His Holiness and Omnipotence and Justice and Seriousness and approval existed before pagan Muhammad was born…it seems the deity you are preaching aquired the above mentioned characteristics after Muhammad.

 

[inJESUS]

[Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543: Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, “Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring.” So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, “As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi” (i.e. Peace and Allah’s Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam’s salutation the expression, ‘Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,’ Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam’s creation. …*Tell me where does it say “in His Image?” Words were added. Actually the Arabi should be placed next to the hadith and if my son were here, I would ask him to do this but he is not here now. If you wish, I can ask him later and I can post it inshaAllah.

you are quoting another hadith.

 

[inJESUS]

actually you are grossly mistaken. The Quran puts mary above all other women on earth and holds her in high esteem. She was granted with having the miracle of Jesus.

so the virgin birth occured because Allah esteems Mary?

The Quran reads it beautifully. You should read the story on how eloquently it states

eloquently by saying she kept her vigina and we breathed into it of our spirit? what’s so eloquent about this?

oh, and we are talkin not of the word incarnate but of God. Jesus was a word??? Since when

come on, you haven’t read John as well. It is Logos, not “a word”.

The Quran, eternal and uncreated Speech/Word of Allah? not Allah yet not other than Allah? rings a bell?

How can our Creator belittle Himself? lol He isn’t comparable to us…so your question is kinda mute.

it reflects your question.

the Quran is proof in itself. To have it unchanged is a bargaining tool to just show it’s authenticity to those who are in doubt to its authenticity. Allah doesn’t need to prove Himself to anyone.

so preservation is a proof of divine origin?

Did I say that the Quran was uncreated?

Ahlul Sunna wal Jama’a say it.

We are talking of the Trinity…and you keep bringing up “Word”. Since when is Word part of the Trinity?

since ever as the Father was never without Word/Wisdom/Logos/Son.

The Father, the Word, The Holy Spirit?

yes, the Father, His Word, His Holy Spirit is the same God. His Word and Spirit are not partners to Him as Muhammad says,but his essence unless he meant Allah is wisdomless and spiritless.

Jesus is the word of God in flesh you say…so HE WAS A MESSENGER AND NOT GOD??? .

no, the Word of God is God. The Word incarnate is God.

You asked me what??? if I believe God acquired Wisdom at some time in history??? I know you didn’t ask me this…the Creator of the universe, you and me, the most complexed creations and you asked me if He acquired wisdom??? I don’t think I really need to answer that, perhaps you meant something else right?? Will give you the benefit of the doubt.

so what is your objection to Father, Wisdom, Spirit = One God if you believe Allah and His Wisdom are one?

.

The Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:3, 4; 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18) and Scriptures affirms Him to be equal with God the Father and God the Son. He is not a lessor Person than the Father or the Son.

so why did you say Jesus is the Holy Spirit?

as for the holy spirit being Jibril (on him peace), Luke 1:5-20

Gabriel is speaking here:

He will be filled with the holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb,
16
and he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God.

will John be filled with Gabriel???

Yes, Adam is a prophet (not a messenger~there are differences between the two)…but I guess the word would be in Arabi, “m’asum” they do not make mistakes in their propogating the Message of Allah. The word sinless in this is applied…but mistakes are of manly nature.

so is disobeying God a sin or not?

Show me am up for it But ya gotta show Jesus saying it, not words of men saying it. Straight forward.

you got it…i will in a while…

HUH?? A’authu billeh (God Forbid), did I ever claim Allah has no wisdom???

so why dio you follow a man who claimed God’s Wisdom is a partner to Allah and hence shirk? isn’t that what Muhammad said about us?

Allah has a plan and in that plan, it included the last message from Him. Those that messed up in the past, well, they will be dealt with accordingly.

so he did not exoecise his power until thousands of years later…ok i see…since he has a “last” message, who cares about the first ones…ok…but there is a problem…Muhammad confirms the Bible in his hands…where is that Bible and when was it corrupt?

Jesus says what??? Where did the book “According to Jesus” come into play? Find it and we can look at it

no, you find it and we can look at it, because it is you wgo claim there is such a book, not us !

 

[inJESUS]

Show me am up for it But ya gotta show Jesus saying it, not words of men saying it. Straight forward.

before i start, i have a question. If a muslim came to a group of Sheikhs and told them, “i am the Rahman the Raheem”, what do you think this man is trying to say? the man does not say “i am God” but he says something that expresses the same meaning to these sheikhs, right?

 

[Matariel]

actually you are grossly mistaken. The Quran puts mary above all other women on earth and holds her in high esteem.

But the Qur’an is mistaken about Christians’ beliefs about her, as well as other things, LOL.

oh, and we are talkin not of the word incarnate but of God. Jesus was a word??? Since when

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…” (Gospel of Saint John)

Jesus is the Word (Logos, or Wisdom) of God.

How can our Creator belittle Himself? lol He isn’t comparable to us…so your question is kinda mute.

LOL, you have no idea what you’re talking about. He didn’t belittle Himself. He has elevated human nature, and this is how we will eventually share in His glorious ressurection, and His kingdom shall have no end.

the Quran is proof in itself.

Ok, where’s the proof? If the Quran is the Word of Allah, then why all the contradictions and variations of text in the Quran?

To have it unchanged is a bargaining tool to just show it’s authenticity to those who are in doubt to its authenticity.

Read question above. It’s not unchanged.

Allah doesn’t need to prove Himself to anyone.

If He’s God, He’ll desire that people know the truth, and have a way of varifying that truth.

Did I say that the Quran was uncreated?

In most certainly was.

We are talking of the Trinity…and you keep bringing up “Word”. Since when is Word part of the Trinity? The Father, the Word, The Holy Spirit?

Word, in the ancient sense–* Logos*, not written words.

Wow, you know almost nothing about Christianity.

Where does Jesus because letters to make a word…thought he was human…a human word? come on

Logos, Wisdom, Thought, Word. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

Jesus is the Logos of God, the Wisdom of God, the Word of God.

You asked me what??? if I believe God acquired Wisdom at some time in history??? I know you didn’t ask me this…the Creator of the universe, you and me, the most complexed creations and you asked me if He acquired wisdom??? I don’t think I really need to answer that, perhaps you meant something else right?? Will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Apparently, your “Allah” is Wisdomless: “say not that Allah begot a son”. And Spiritless. LOL.

The Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:3, 4; 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18) and Scriptures affirms Him to be equal with God the Father and God the Son. He is not a lesser Hypostasis than the Father or the Son.

HUH?? A’authu billeh (God Forbid), did I ever claim Allah has no wisdom???

You said Allah is Wisdomless/Wordless.

Allah has a plan and in that plan, it included the last message from Him. Those that messed up in the past, well, they will be dealt with accordingly.

How convenient, for sorry Mohammed to justify his made-up delusional religion.

Jesus says what??? Where did the book “According to Jesus” come into play? Find it and we can look at it

The Four Holy Evangelists wrote His biography, including His crucifixion and ressurection, and His claims of divinity.

I believe in the true message of Jesus.

No, or else you’d be a Catholic Christian.

I believe in the last message to mankind.

Oh, you believe in the Book of Revelation? That’s nice.

I

believe in all the books that God gave to all His messengers.

Ppf! You just said you reject the OT and NT!

Stop being double-minded.

 

[inJESUS]

Ppf! You just said you reject the OT and NT!
.

he meant : i believe in the idea of books from Allah, just an idea since for 1400 years we weren’t able to provide a single copy, which were corrupted by all Jews and Christians but not sure who exactly, somewhere but who knows where, in a specific time but not sure if before Jesus or after Muhammad because Muhammad confirmed what was in Jews and Christians’ hands yet am sure the corruption started with Jews so i don’t know what Muhammad confirmed but i know it is corrupt. :whacky: