The saying of the Confiteor during mass

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jbuck919 said:
Yes, and I imagine you memorized the exact Latin spelling (which you did get correct, mirabile dictu) at the same time in addition to learning it phonetically. Virtually every
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altar boy recited the prayers at the foot of the altar from rote without understanding a syllable of its meaning, and that goes for every single word throughout the service that they had to mouth in Latin.
I never knew before now that I didn’t then (or now, I suppose) understand even a “syllable” or a “single word” of what I said for years. I always thought (even back then, jbuck) that “In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti” meant “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”. Please tell me what it really means as I surely didn’t understand even a “syllable”.
You may only have said it once, but if you were paying careful attention, the priest said it twice, once for himself, and, later on, on behalf of the faithful, who were not presumed in advance to be allowed access to the altar to receive communion. It would have been easy to miss this, because priests spoke in such undertones (or even, intentionally, in silence) that nobody knew what was going on, even the altar boys.
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Sorry, jbuck. But just like toto pulled the curtain back… . I just went through my Coalition In Support of Ecclesia Dei published “Latin-English Booklet Missal For Praying The Traditional Mass”. No other Confiteor, undertoned, silent, or otherwise. EDIT can you give any more clues to where your undertoned, silent confiteor before communion is? Need your assistance, please.
.

Please answer my one question on that. Please. Thank you in advance.
 
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jbuck919 said:
I confess to almighty God, to blessed Mary, ever virgin, to holy Michael the archangel, to the blessed apostles Peter and Paul, to all the saints, and to you [Father, or brothers] that I have sinned most grievously in thought, word, and deed, through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault. Therefore I beseach blessed Mary ever virgin, holy Michael the archangel, the blessed apostles Peter and Paul, all the saints, and you (Father, or brrothers), to pray to the Lord our God for me.

That’s from a 45-year-old memory, folks, so be kind to me.

No fooling, and I was being half-facetious in implying that we want this back. In the Old Latin Mass, it was said three times: Once by the priest to the altar boys, once by them back to him, and later in the Mass before communion.

Where did the bathwater end, and the baby begin? That is the question.
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Kind?! HA!!! You forgot Blessed John the Baptist!!! I won’t even begin with the minor issues!!! 😃

I prefer most of the music to the Kyrie to 99%+ of what is written for the options. So I vote to use the Confiteor.
 
jbuck919 said:
Yes, and I imagine you memorized the exact Latin spelling (which you did get correct, mirabile dictu) at the same time in addition to learning it phonetically. Virtually every altar boy recited the prayers at the foot of the altar from rote without understanding a syllable of its meaning, and that goes for every single word throughout the service that they had to mouth in Latin. And I’ve got news for you: A heck of a lot of priests did not understand it any better and also did everything phonetically, and badly even on those terms, at least in the US.

You may only have said it once, but if you were paying careful attention, the priest said it twice, once for himself, and, later on, on behalf of the faithful, who were not presumed in advance to be allowed access to the altar to receive communion. It would have been easy to miss this, because priests spoke in such undertones (or even, intentionally, in silence) that nobody knew what was going on, even the altar boys.
EDIT
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Jb where did you get the idea that all altar boys did not understand the Mass latin? I certainly did. My brothers certainly did. My father and uncles on both sides certainly did. Add my grandparents, aunts, cousins and sisters. Believe it or not, even in the old USA, people did know what was what - if for no other reason than the Missals had the translations on the right hand page.

Granted my father and uncles took 10 years of Latin - 7th grade through college. My mother had 8 - 9th grade through college. They could translate written latin quite well. Whether they could speak it extemporeneously and understand it extemporeneously, I don’t know. But the Mass they certainly knew. As did a whole lot of folks I grew up with.

I don’t know where you went to Mass - but the priests I knew, including 2 Bishops, all knew the Mass quite well - and were excellent with written Latin. Again, you may have a point on extemporeneous speaking and hearing, but writing is the mode they usually needed it outside Mass. This canard that priests didn’t know Latin is simply false in the most part - at least in the USA.
 
30miller said:
Sorry, jbuck. But just like toto pulled the curtain back… . I just went through my Coalition In Support of Ecclesia Dei published “Latin-English Booklet Missal For Praying The Traditional Mass”. No other Confiteor, undertoned, silent, or otherwise. EDIT can you give any more clues to where your undertoned, silent confiteor before communion is? Need your assistance, please.
.

Please answer my one question on that. Please. Thank you in advance.

The Confiteor before communion was removed by Bl. John XXIII in the 1962 books which the Indult and SSPX use. It was never given in the Missal pre-or post 1962: but the reference to it disappeared in the 1962 Ritus servandus in celebratione Missae.

But this Confiteor would only be said if communion was distributed within the Mass.

The reason for the names is because Ss. Peter and Paul are the saints of Rome, St. Michael the archangel was thought to be the angel of the Sacrifice (orignally it was thought to be Gabriel) and St. John the Baptist was born immaculate. Of course, there are other explanations given also in the various mystical treatises on the Mass and its prayers.
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It was never given in the Missal pre-or post 1962:
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I don’t understand this passage. My 1961 Missal clearly states that the confetier is to be said if communion was to be given to the laity. Could you please expound on what you meant by “never given”.

Thanks
 
Perhaps I am wrong, but I do believe the misconception that priests and Bishops did not know Latin is related to Cardinal Cushing’s offer to put a translation system in the Vatican for VII. Cardinal Cushing could certainly read and write Latin. What he and others were deficient in was speaking it and understanding it in discussion. (Indeed Cardinal Cushing’s intensely nasal accent made his English a little difficult to understand 😛 )

I know there were comments on one of Cardinal Spellman’s speaches as being nearly unintelligible. I’ve never been sure if that was because most of the Council Fathers rarely spoke extemporeneous Latin or because Cardinal Spellman rarely did after his stint in Rome in the early part of the 20th Century. Contraray to what I have seen posted here from time to time, I suspect the former is the truth rather than the latter as Cardinal Spellman spent quite a bit of time in Rome and was close to Cardinal Pacelli - Pius XII. Working in the Curia he would have had to speak Latin as well as read and write it.

In any event, even today, Cardinal Egan is a Latin expert having served as a translator of spoken Latin while he was posted to the Curia.
 
SnorterLuster said:
I don’t understand this passage. My 1961 Missal clearly states that the confetier is to be said if communion was to be given to the laity. Could you please expound on what you meant by “never given”.

Thanks
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The lay missal would have it because they had texts of the missal combined with devotions, maybe Vespers, commentraies, explanations of ceremonies, etc.

But in the altar missal it was not given. There was no section after the priest’s communion and the prayers there with instructions for the communion of the laity.

In every altar missal there was a document: Rites to be kept in the celebration of the Mass. This had the instructions for the Mass. Section X deals with the Lord’s Prayer to the Communion. Before Bl. John XXIII no. 6 of the section read as follows:
Si qui sunt communicandi in Missa, Sacerdos post sumptionem Sanguinis, antequam se purificet, facta genuflexione, ponat particulas consecratas in Pyxide, vel, si pauci sint communicandi, super Patenam, nisi a principio positae fuerint in Pyxide seu alio Calice. Interim minister ante eos extendit linteum seu velum album, et pro eis facit Confessionem dicens: Confiteor Deo, etc. Tum Sacerdos iterum genuflectit, et manibus iunctis vertens se ad populum in cornu Evangelii, dicit: Misereatur vestri, et Indulgentiam, absolutionem, et remissionem peccatorum vestrorum, etc., et manu dextera facit signum crucis super eos. Postea genuflectens, accipit manu sinistra Pyxidem seu Patenam cum Sacramento, dextera vero sumit unam particulam, quam inter pollicem et indicem tenet aliquantulum elevatam super Pyxidem seu Patenam, et conversus ad communicandos in medio Altaris, dicit: Ecce Agnus Dei, ecce, qui tollit peccata mundi. Deinde dicit: Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum, sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea. Quibus verbis tertio repetitis, accedit ad eorum dexteram, hoc est, ad latus Epistolae, et unicuique porrigit Sacramentum faciens cum eo signum crucis super Pyxidem vel Patenam, et simul dicens: Corpus Domini nostri Iesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeternam. Amen. Omnibus communicatis, revertitur ad Altare, nihil dicens: et non dat eis benedictionem, quia illam daturus est in fine Missae.
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If there are those who are going to communicate at Mass, the Priest after the reception of the Blood, before he purify himself, a genuflection having been made, places the consecrated Particles in a Pyx, or, if few are to communicate, upon a Paten, unless from the beginning they were placed in a Pyx or another Chalice. Meanwhile the minister extends before them a white linen or covering, and for them makes the Confession, saying I confess to God, etc. Then the Priest again genuflects, and with joined hands turning himself to the people at the Gospel corner, says: [May the almighty God] have mercy on you,etc. and [the almighty and merciful Lord grant us] pardon, absolution and remission of our sins., and with his right hand makes the sign of the Cross over them. Then genuflecting, he takes with the left hand the Pyx or Paten with the Sacrament, and with his right hand takes one particle, which he holds between his thumb and index finger slightly elevated above the Pyx or Paten, and turning to the communicands at the middle of the Altar, says: Ecce Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world. Then he says: Lord I am not worthy that you should come under my roof, but speak only the word and my soul shall be healed. Which words having been a third time, he goes to their right, that is, at the Epistle side, and extends the Sacrament to each making the sign of the Cross with it over the Pyx or Paten, and likewise saying: The Body of our Lord Jesus Christ preserve your soul to life everlasting Amen. With all having been communicated, he returns to the Altar, saying nothing: and he does not give them a blessing, because it is to be given at the end of Mass.
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As can be seen form the last line quoted, the instruction follows the form of the Rituale Romanum for the distribution of communion, hence it mentions the blessing.

In the 1961 editio typica the section in italics was omitted.
 
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Excuse me - but why have you resurrected a very old thread to add 2 totally unconnected posts ?

I would suggest you ask for these 2 posts to be moved to a more appropriate place
 
It depends on the church I am attending. Most of them we say the Confiteor “I confess…” unless the priest chooses a different penitential act like the Lord / Christ have mercy responses in English or the Kyrie Elesion / Christe Elesion in Greek (where we repeat the Greek after the priest).

When I watch the Daily Mass on ETWN, they do both “I confess” and the Kyrie most of the time. Seldom do I hear the invocation by the priest then people replying Lord/Christ have mercy.
 
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