B
benedict_XVIII
Guest
One more thing.
It sounds like Prof. Linoli’s work is the best you can find on this issue.
It sounds like Prof. Linoli’s work is the best you can find on this issue.
Dearest friend, the link is a bit faded atop. I’m trying to get it upgraded and this fixed. There’s lots of links atop.Interesting website - I could only see links to angel-related things, however. Where is this “Inherit eternal life” page ?
It happened for just one day. Neither earlier nor later.I’m going to make you laugh now.
I don’t mind looking like a fool. Life is so nonsensical sometimes we are all fools in a certain way.
Anyway, I was in London in 1996 and when I’m in London it is a tradition for me to buy The Tiimes newspaper every morning.
So one morning I get my copy and on the front page I see a funny article: in one Hindu temple in London a miracle is happening.
I immediately drive there. Having been to India 4 years I was very interested.
There was a long queue of poeople queuing on the sidewalk.
When my turn comes up, I approach the “altar”.
There was an Indian woman sitting on the floor, by the side of a pile of cartons of milk.
The temple was about SHIVA, I think, one of the many Hindu gods.
You must know that Shiva’s vehicle is a bull called Nandi, if I remember well.
Anyway, in that temple there was a small marble statue of the bull.
The woman gave me a spoon, put some milk in it . I approached the spoon to the bull’s mouth and the marble bull drank the mill.
You can find articles about this presumed miracle on the Net.
The same miracle was happening in India and the US too, in Hindu temples.
It went on for two or three days and then stopped.
Funny, isn’t it?
I’m always sorry that no scientific team ever goes to find out what is going on.
I am always sorry to hear scientists say that science does not deal in miracles, only to try and disprove miracles when they happen, implying that some natural force of unknown origin was at work.
To me too, miracles are fundamental.
A religion without miracles would not appeal to me as much as it does with them.
Thanks for your attention
Ah, but that’s not a miracle. That’s a sign, and signs can come from the devil. Before the time of Christ, idols were known to speak to people - but it was actually the demons speaking in order to trick the people. The same will happen at the time of the Antichrist.I’m going to make you laugh now.
I don’t mind looking like a fool. Life is so nonsensical sometimes we are all fools in a certain way.
Anyway, I was in London in 1996 and when I’m in London it is a tradition for me to buy The Tiimes newspaper every morning.
So one morning I get my copy and on the front page I see a funny article: in one Hindu temple in London a miracle is happening.
I immediately drive there. Having been to India 4 years I was very interested.
There was a long queue of poeople queuing on the sidewalk.
When my turn comes up, I approach the “altar”.
There was an Indian woman sitting on the floor, by the side of a pile of cartons of milk.
The temple was about SHIVA, I think, one of the many Hindu gods.
You must know that Shiva’s vehicle is a bull called Nandi, if I remember well.
Anyway, in that temple there was a small marble statue of the bull.
The woman gave me a spoon, put some milk in it . I approached the spoon to the bull’s mouth and the marble bull drank the mill.
You can find articles about this presumed miracle on the Net.
The same miracle was happening in India and the US too, in Hindu temples.
It went on for two or three days and then stopped.
Funny, isn’t it?
I’m always sorry that no scientific team ever goes to find out what is going on.
I am always sorry to hear scientists say that science does not deal in miracles, only to try and disprove miracles when they happen, implying that some natural force of unknown origin was at work.
To me too, miracles are fundamental.
A religion without miracles would not appeal to me as much as it does with them.
Thanks for your attention
Then how do we know the difference between a miracle from God and one from a demon.Ah, but that’s not a miracle. That’s a sign, and signs can come from the devil. Before the time of Christ, idols were known to speak to people - but it was actually the demons speaking in order to trick the people. The same will happen at the time of the Antichrist.
How does it contradict with the oneness of God? Does this require deep knowledge of Hinduism to know whether or not it conflicts? Might this be arguably dependent on deep knowledge of Church teachings and be arbitrary - one person could see a supernational occurrence and say it does contradict with the Church teachings and one could say that it does not? So it might be up to the Pope to determine?In the case of the idol drinking milk, it is not a miracle, because it contradicts Church teachings (the oneness of God).
It’s elementry, really. Look to the First Commandment. Since only God is, and He forbids idols, the idol contradicts the Church teaching on the oneness of God. Hence, it is not a miracle.How does it contradict with the oneness of God?
No, its not elementary. Protestant groups have often argued that veneration of Mary is idol worship and statues of the saints are idol-worship. Catholics have laid arguments for why these things are not idol-worship. Yet, Protestants can make the same claim that the Our Lady of Guadalupe miracle is demonic, and actually they do. I actually bought such claims for a while before I reconverted to Catholicism. In fact, the Catholic Church itself makes such claims about a demonic origin of unapproved signs claimed as done by certain images of Mary.It’s elementry, really. Look to the First Commandment. Since only God is, and He forbids idols, the idol contradicts the Church teaching on the oneness of God. Hence, it is not a miracle.
You honestly believe an idol is being used by God? Well, okay. I can’t change your mind, I can only show you the truth. I have, and you have rejected it. I’ll pray for you, though.No, its not elementary. Protestant groups have often argued that veneration of Mary is idol worship and statues of the saints are idol-worship. Catholics have laid arguments for why these things are not idol-worship. Yet, Protestants can make the same claim that the Our Lady of Guadalupe miracle is demonic, and actually they do. I actually bought such claims for a while before I reconverted to Catholicism. In fact, the Catholic Church itself makes such claims about a demonic origin of unapproved signs claimed as done by certain images of Mary.
So, if a supernatural sign done by an image of an uncanonized but popularly accepted to be holy Catholic is done: How can we truly know the origins of this supernatural sign? That’s why I am suggesting that only the Pope can really know. A popularly accepted as holy Catholic could be leading a double-life for all we know so maybe it must be up to the Pope to verify what is a miracle and what is merely a supernatural sign.![]()
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No, I don’t believe an idol is being used by God, except to the extent that nothing ever happens without God allowing it to happen.You honestly believe an idol is being used by God? Well, okay. I can’t change your mind, I can only show you the truth. I have, and you have rejected it. I’ll pray for you, though.
Rational thinking is greatly appreciated and applauded by our faith. Without rational thinking, we may fall prey to illogical and wrong moral belief as well as superstition. The main problem that I can acknowledge that I suffer from rational thinking is a desire to disparage those who don’t agree or appreciate (seeming) logical correctness, which is probably related to my issues with pride and arrogance.I don’t like too much rational thinking. Always this hair-splitting tires me.
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I did not know this and it is a enormous change in what I had previously believed. Even Hinduism with its caste system can be perfectly practiced and lead to God? It was for this reason that Mahatama Gandhi could not fully accept Hinduism, the caste system. I would be most grateful and appreciative to learn more about this Vatican II teaching and examine it for myself.I am going to say a couple of things and then you please correct me where I am wrong:
(1) According to Vatican II, all religions (including Hindu), if properly practiced, lead to God, although only the Catholic faith is the perfect one.
(2) St. Thomas was indeed a great saint and an excellent theologian. I don’t dispute that.
However, once I read that one day, after writing so many good things, he stopped writing altogether.
When someone asked him why he replied: I had a vision, and now that I have had that vision, all that I have written looks like straw to me.
I have no idea about this either and would like to read more about it if so! Yet, whether or not he thinks that all he has written looks like straw, I strongly suspect (have not verified for myself) that much of our Cathechism of the Catholic Church and the theological influence on our religious leaders (His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI actually has a Ph.D. where he did his dissertation on St. Augustine - dissertations require extremely rational thought) is based on his teachings. In fact, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI was a university professor for many years. I truly suspect that it is the gift from God of continued, sustained, pure, logical, and rational analysis of Catholic doctrine for decades that allows him now to make such well-informed and clear theological decisions. If you read such as the Theology of the Body from His Holiness Pope John Paul II, you see him interweaving even non-Catholic philosophers.Is this right?
- “Haec sublimis veritas": I am who I am” (Ex 3:14) constitutes an object of reflection for many philosophers, beginning from St. Augustine. He held that Plato must have known this text because it seemed very close to his ideas. Through St. Anselm, the Augustinian doctrine of the divine essentialitas exercised a pround influence on the theology of Richard of St. Victor, Alexander of Hales and St. Bonaventure
**"To pass from this philosophical interpreation of Exodus to that put forward by St. Thomas, one had necessarily to bridge the gap that separated the ‘the being of essence’ from ‘the being of existence.’ The Thomastic proofs of the existence fo God bridged it. **
So, if Thomastic proofs are like straw, then maybe their place in the Theology of the Body that is influencing Catholics all over the world could be arguably unwarranted? Or perhaps he mal-aligns the great blessing to the world of his thoughtful works?Meister Exchart’s position differs from this. On the basis of this text, he attributed to God the *puritas essendi: “est aliquid altius ente…” * (“the purity of being; he is something higher than ens”); cf. E. Gilson, Le Thomisme [Paris: Vrin, 1944], pp. 122-127; E. Gilson, History of Christian Philosophy in the Middle Ages [London: Sheed and Warn, 1955], p. 810).
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/jp2tb2.htm
Because you sound such a decent guy, I shall reply to your questions.I did not know this and it is a enormous change in what I had previously believed. Even Hinduism with its caste system can be perfectly practiced and lead to God? It was for this reason that Mahatama Gandhi could not fully accept Hinduism, the caste system. I would be most grateful and appreciative to learn more about this Vatican II teaching and examine it for myself.It seems though that some religious denominations: the United Church of Christ, for example that approve and even celebrate of gay marriage might lead one away from God.
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I have no idea about this either and would like to read more about it if so! Yet, whether or not he thinks that all he has written looks like straw, I strongly suspect (have not verified for myself) that much of our Cathechism of the Catholic Church and the theological influence on our religious leaders (His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI actually has a Ph.D. where he did his dissertation on St. Augustine - dissertations require extremely rational thought) is based on his teachings. In fact, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI was a university professor for many years. I truly suspect that it is the gift from God of continued, sustained, pure, logical, and rational analysis of Catholic doctrine for decades that allows him now to make such well-informed and clear theological decisions. If you read such as the Theology of the Body from His Holiness Pope John Paul II, you see him interweaving even non-Catholic philosophers.
So, if Thomastic proofs are like straw, then maybe their place in the Theology of the Body that is influencing Catholics all over the world could be arguably unwarranted? Or perhaps he mal-aligns the great blessing to the world of his thoughtful works?![]()
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I am highly intrigued by your opinion, but I think that I come from almost the opposite background. You express a belief that I had not previously known before was official Vatican doctrine that all religions lead to God. I tend to come from the perspective that God is truth, thus a careful, exact, rational, and logical examination of the truth will lead to God. In fact, I once heard that the Catholic Church shephereded the university system through the Dark Ages. Hence, my extreme interest in the Lanciano miracle.
Many doubts exist as to the high standards to which the Catholic Church and Christian Churches in general approves miracles or saints, etc so when there is an option for unbelief, I (perhaps wrongly and sinfully) often exercise this option, knowing that certain Catholic beliefs that were accepted as noninfalliable have been proved wrong in the past. But few doubts (in my own mind) exist as to the veracity and truth of honestly conducted science whose logic and underpinnings are examinable and logically acceptable or refutable. So, for me, and for others (I have forwarded people verifiable proofs that got them to look at the faith when all amounts of talking might have done nothing) a scientifically examined miracle and logically consistent faith are amazing, holy, and powerful blessings, a reason why I went to such great lengths to contact the author of the article without personal reward!
I again apologize for any unnecessary harshness and lack of kindness in my messages. I am learning greatly from this discussion!
A religion should not discriminate against the learned. If Christ was learned, St. Augustine of Hippo was learned, St. Paul was learned, our Popes are learned, Solomon was learned and God was pleased with all of this, how can we believe that being unlearned is necessary for Christianity or genuine belief. It is not learning that is a problem. Learning was created by God as a great and wonderful gift. Science was created by God. It is not in opposition to God - it is another path of finding God. It is the arrogance and pride and closed-mindedness and hypocrisy and attachment to the world that frequently follows learning that is wrong, not learning in and of itself, which is greatly and highly commended by God as the above Scriptures show.You see, whenever I have some problem, I first look into the Bible and then into the Catechism next.
Jesus said that we have to believe like children.
I believe religion must be simple, so that even illiterate peasants can follow.
I do my best to keep it simple.
The reason why we have so many theologians is perhaps because we want to compete with the learnt people of this world.
That’s a-ok and blessed as well. It was not St. Francis of Assisi’s charism either and he is considered one of the greatest saints to exist on Earth, if not the greatest after Mary by much of the Church. But it is not right to denigrate others who use the gifts that God blessed them, and the Church community through them. We have many many gifts in the body of Christ distributed to many and learning is merely just one of the many.We think we have to try and demonstrate our faith logically and rationally.
If all recent Popes did that, I suppose it is right, but it is not my charisma.
No, I don’t get what you are trying to say. God almost always gave people proofs as far as I can tell from the earliest of times. He gave them the prophecies of the prophets, which are proofs if they came true. He also worked miracles, which are proofs. Even the Fatima apparitions give proofs. God said believe in me on account of several witnesses.God demands that we BELIEVE.
If we can supply scientific proof, it is no longer a matter of belief.
It has been proven . There is no mystery anymore.
Do you get what I am trying to say ?
Anyway, I shall do a little research and come back to you, but tomorrow, dear Mr. Nice guy.
Love and hugs to you