The Seal of Confession

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Daniel_Boucher said:
Ok, I told you not to post again under those two conditions and you still did. This is a closed thread.
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If this is a real issue for you, contact your Bishop and report the matter to him.

Due to our limitations, none of us in this forum have the ability to help you on this issue.

Please pray before you decide to go to the Bishop on this priest. Be sure you’re being guided by the Holy Spirit, and not some personal agenda.

Jim
 
Daniel_Boucher said:
Ok, I told you not to post again under those two conditions and you still did. Please do not.
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I know this wasn’t directed (exclusively) at me, but my request for clarification was sincere, Daniel. I don’t understand why you won’t clarify exactly what these priests are saying.
 
Thank you “puzzleannie” for your post. It helps to have someone who is concerned and does not accuse me of lying. And also, someone who understands the serious nature of this matter.
 
What do you find to be unclear? You don’t need to know exactly what they said.
 
Daniel_Boucher said:
Thank you “puzzleannie” for your post. It helps to have someone who is concerned and does not accuse me of lying. And also, someone who understands the serious nature of this matter.
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I never said you’re lying, and I don’t think you are! I am truly, honestly interested. My request for clarification was not a loaded one; I truly didn’t mean to imply that one answer is obviously the “correct” one. I truly am curious exactly what they’re doing that constitutes singling you out from others who have likely confessed similar sins.

You insist that even if they’re not identifying you, that still violates the seal of the confessional. I am not an expert on this; so I am not arguing with you.

But completely separate is the issue of whether they are singling you out. Some of the things you’ve said seem to imply that they actually are. Could you be more specific? How will people in the congregation be nudged towards the knowledge that these sins being preached about are your sins specifically?

Please be patient with us. I don’t mean to be patronizing, condescending, or disbelieving.

EDIT: Didn’t see your last post when I wrote that. Of course I don’t need to know exactly what they said, and you’re not obligated to reveal that, and I don’t mean to ask you too. But in what way does what they say lead others to be able to identify you?
 
Daniel_Boucher said:
What do you find to be unclear? You don’t need to know exactly what they said.
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We need to know whether they provided enough information so that you could be identified, or just spoke generally about sins you happened to confess.

The first is very bad, about the worst thing a priest can do. The second is absolutely proper.

God Bless
 
Let’s review some of what’s going on here.
  1. First, Daniel is right: a priest is not allowed to reveal to anyone under any circumstances that which he learns in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, not even generally. A priest once gave an example in this context of a (hypothetical) priest describing how hard it was in his first real confessional because he didn’t know how to respond to the confession of bestiality, only to have someone say, wait a minute, my dad said he was the first person you ever confessed. Obviously, if that were to really happen, whoops! So they can’t comment – not even generally – about what they’ve heard in the confessional. So they can’t say things like “Most of you are confessing that . . . .” or “I’ve heard a lot recently in confession about . . . .”
  2. Second, priests (and deacons, when they preach) are required to preach at Mass, not only about, say, the specific Scripture readings that day, but in general to instruct and exhort the faithful. Specifically, canon law states that the preacher of a homily is to explain the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian life (CIC 767) – from the Scriptures, yes, but you can’t discuss the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian life without discussing how to stop sinning. Indeed, they are explicitly required to talk about how we are to act:
Those who proclaim the divine word are to propose first of all to the Christian faithful those things which one must believe and do for the glory of God and the salvation of humanity.
They are also to impart to the faithful the doctrine which the magisterium of the Church sets forth concerning the dignity and freedom of the human person, the unity and stability of the family and its duties, the obligations which people have from being joined together in society, and the ordering of temporal aVairs according to the plan established by God.
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Canon 768.

So, at Mass, we should expect – indeed, we have the right to receive – a homily about how to be better Christians. This necessarily means that the priest (or deacon) will discuss how to reduce the sin in our lives.

This means, of course, that he will mention specific sins. Classic example: “One way to avoid the sin of rage is to make the conscious decision to forgive the person wronging us. So, the next time someone cuts you off in traffic, smile at him and move on; don’t use your horn. You’ll be better off, believe me.”

But that does not mean that the priest is singling out someone who confessed earlier that day that he keeps cutting off people in traffic.
  1. Third, Daniel, I’m sure you’ll agree that, sooner or later, some random sin mentioned in a homily will match with some random sin someone mentioned to the priest in confession. That doesn’t mean, though, that the priest copied it from the penitent who confessed to him. For all we know, the homily was already written before the confession occurred. The fact that it’s mentioned doesn’t mean it was taken from the seal of the confessional.
  2. Fourth, we all sin. Regularly. And, believe it or not, most of us commit the same sins over and over again. Most priests whom I’ve heard discuss this issue say (without revealing details) that they’ve heard everything; that nothing surprises them anymore; and that no one has a monopoly on any particular sin. In short, for the most part, we’re all doing exactly the same things.
  3. Fifth, most priests say that they don’t really remember sins from the confessional. Part of it is simple human fallibility (how many details could you remember if 20 of us came up each week and all confessed the same sins – anger at family members, problems dealing with lust, succumbing to greed, etc. – in a row? Answer: not much). Part of it is a genuine desire not to remember anything. And, according to a lot of priests, part of it is an actual charism to help them forget.
  4. Sixth, they cannot under any circumstances identify you to the congregation – either by name or by description (not even a vague “someone said to me . . .”). That is absolutely prohibited. They can, however, talk about the sin itself. After all, if one person confessing a particular sin made that sin off limits for homilies for, say, the next month, there wouldn’t be anything left for the priests to talk about.
In short, my take on it (for what it’s worth) is that you are hearing sins mentioned in homilies that hit uncomfortably close to home (which is a good thing; it helps keep us honest; and I’ve got to admit that it happens to me all the time), and you are – in my opinion, erroneously – thinking that the priest is working your confession into the homily.

Remember, they’re required to talk about sin. Just because you’ve confessed the one they’re talking about doesn’t mean that you’re the cause of their talking about it.

I hope this helps. God bless.
 
Ok, let me clear things up just a moment.

I never said I was being singled out. Remember, I said there may be others as well.

Also, I never said that priests cannot mention sin in their homily. You are mistaken for thinking I did.

Look, I posted this post to seek help. If you do not believe me, you are unable to help me. If you believe me, then maybe you will be able to offer some help. Believing me is even help enough.

I don’t want to go to Confession when a priest is just going to reveal my sins soon within the future during a homily (or ever). Even if I don’t hear it. This has nothing to do with public knowledge. This has to do with trust and the Church. God does not want anyone’s sins revealed after having been Confessed. That is for Him to take account for on Judgement Day. When I hear a priest make use of the sins I have confessed during a homily or through other means, it betrays me. I am not talking about when I hear the same word mentioned in a Confession, or anything like that. I am specifically referring to “making use of” the information which should be confined to the Confessional during the Confession.

I will provide an example, this may help.
 
A priest hears Confessions, as usual. He is writing a homily and he thought that it might help the congregation if he directed the Church on what the Church teaches about a sin that he is commonly hearing in Confessions. He is breaking the seal by doing that. He should tell the people the advice that he wants to give during Confession. Then, and only then. It is up for the confessee to learn anything else on these matters. Have faith, God directs us through our consciences. So, there is no reason at all that this should happen to anyone. Priests do make mistakes sometimes, but for it to happen repeatedly, which is my circumstance, is problematic. It is like being betrayed by Judas.

Any advice?

I am not asking about whether something is right or wrong, that much I know. I am asking what I should do because I would like to go to Confession where my sins won’t be used for any purpose outside of Confession. There is nothing I am doing wrong to cause them to break the seal. I am not asking them to do so.
 
Daniel_Boucher said:
A priest hears Confessions, as usual. He is writing a homily and he thought that it might help the congregation if he directed the Church on what the Church teaches about a sin that he is commonly hearing in Confessions. He is breaking the seal by doing that.
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No he’s not. Not unless he specifically says that’s what he’s doing.

It is perfectly legit for a priest who has heard several people confess to the same sin to decide to address that sin in a homily - as long as he doesn’t say that’s what he’s doing, in the homily.

Did you hear a priest say, in so many words, that he was preaching about a sin he’d heard in Confession?
 
If a priest hears that a particular sin is being confessed often, he has an obligation to talk about that sin. Our parish has a high school. The priest often mentions the fact that many kids confess sexual sins and talks about how to overcome them. He is not singling out anyone, it is a common sin.

I recall one day going to confession to my regular confession. I stated a sin that was sort of unusual for me. After my confession he told me not to be surprized but that particular sin will the topic of his homily later that day. He said he would even show me the written homily if I didn’t believe him. Why would I not believe him. At mass he preached a really good homily and I got a lot out of it hearing about this particular sin. A priest should preach about sin, and if he is preaching about the readings then the topic of particular sins is going to come up.
 
Well, this is useful; we’re clearing up some misunderstandings about this thread. I hope you’re finding it helpful, too.

Let’s take two possible scenarios:

(A) Fr. Bob hears confessions on Saturday. During one of the sessions, a penitent confesses that he has lustful thoughts when he watches women’s beach volleyball. Fr. Bob thinks to himself that, with the Olympics on, this might be a common problem, so he decides to address it. As luck would have it, the Scripture reading for the next day (Sunday) includes the “If your right hand offends you, cut it off; better to enter the kingdom of God one-handed than with both hands to enter the fires of Gehenna” passage. So, during the homily of the Mass, he preaches about lust. “Some of us can be subject to the occasion of sin from everyday events: a beer commercial, an ad for lingerie, and so on. One man confessed to me recently that he has lustful thoughts watching beach volleyball. This is an occasion of sin, and the way to address it is to avoid the occasion: put down the magazine, turn off the TV, go into the other room, or whatever you have to do.”

(B) Fr. Bob hears confessions on Saturday. During one of the sessions, a penitent confesses that he has lustful thoughts when he watches women’s beach volleyball. Fr. Bob thinks to himself that, with the Olympics on, this might be a common problem, so he decides to address it. As luck would have it, the Scripture reading for the next day (Sunday) includes the “If your right hand offends you, cut it off; better to enter the kingdom of God one-handed than with both hands to enter the fires of Gehenna” passage. So, during the homily of the Mass, he preaches about lust. “Some of us can be subject to the occasion of sin from everyday events: a beer commercial, an ad for lingerie, watching beach volleyball, and so on. This is an occasion of sin, and the way to address it is to avoid the occasion: put down the magazine, turn off the TV, go into the other room, or whatever you have to do.”

(I think it’s clear that we’re all on the same page that he could never single anyone out, so I didn’t write a scenario with that happening).

Scenario (A) is problematic, because it’s possible (given a small enough congregation) that someone might figure out whom he means. Scenario (B) is perfectly proper: from his comments no one knows that the beach volleyball thing came from confession.
 
Godfollower said:
Well, this is useful; we’re clearing up some misunderstandings about this thread. I hope you’re finding it helpful, too.

Let’s take two possible scenarios:

(A) Fr. Bob hears confessions on Saturday. During one of the sessions, a penitent confesses that he has lustful thoughts when he watches women’s beach volleyball. Fr. Bob thinks to himself that, with the Olympics on, this might be a common problem, so he decides to address it. As luck would have it, the Scripture reading for the next day (Sunday) includes the “If your right hand offends you, cut it off; better to enter the kingdom of God one-handed than with both hands to enter the fires of Gehenna” passage. So, during the homily of the Mass, he preaches about lust. “Some of us can be subject to the occasion of sin from everyday events: a beer commercial, an ad for lingerie, and so on. One man confessed to me recently that he has lustful thoughts watching beach volleyball. This is an occasion of sin, and the way to address it is to avoid the occasion: put down the magazine, turn off the TV, go into the other room, or whatever you have to do.”

(B) Fr. Bob hears confessions on Saturday. During one of the sessions, a penitent confesses that he has lustful thoughts when he watches women’s beach volleyball. Fr. Bob thinks to himself that, with the Olympics on, this might be a common problem, so he decides to address it. As luck would have it, the Scripture reading for the next day (Sunday) includes the “If your right hand offends you, cut it off; better to enter the kingdom of God one-handed than with both hands to enter the fires of Gehenna” passage. So, during the homily of the Mass, he preaches about lust. “Some of us can be subject to the occasion of sin from everyday events: a beer commercial, an ad for lingerie, watching beach volleyball, and so on. This is an occasion of sin, and the way to address it is to avoid the occasion: put down the magazine, turn off the TV, go into the other room, or whatever you have to do.”

(I think it’s clear that we’re all on the same page that he could never single anyone out, so I didn’t write a scenario with that happening).

Scenario (A) is problematic, because it’s possible (given a small enough congregation) that someone might figure out whom he means. Scenario (B) is perfectly proper: from his comments no one knows that the beach volleyball thing came from confession.
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Good point, and good way to draw the distinction.

A priest DOES need to be able to address things that he perceives as being real problems among his flock. If a lot of people are confessing a particular sin, he would be failing in his duty as a shepherd of souls not to address, in a general way, that particular sin.

At the same time he does need to be careful about the way in which he does so. And without further detail from Daniel on which to base an opinion, it is most unlikely that LOTS of priests in his area are using the problematic method A as opposed to the proper method B.
 
No, that is completely false! There is no right way to bring up something people have mentioned in Confession to a congregation. A and B are both breaking the seal. Just because the congregation isn’t hearing that it is coming from Confession doesn’t make the difference. The matter isn’t about whether other people know (because they shouldn’t), it is about trust and breaking a promise to keep the secrecy of the Confessional. This is a Sacrament we are talking about.

What Joannm said is alright. If the priest already has a homily prepared before hearing Confessions and he tells his penitents to listen to his homily, which just happens to be on the same subject, that is good.

I don’t think you people understand the proper manner in which Confessions should be treated. I’m sorry for being the one asking you for help. I wish I could help you. Please read the Catechism and learn what it says. Cite something from it if you can to help better make your point.
 
Daniel_Boucher said:
No, that is completely false! There is no right way to bring up something people have mentioned in Confession to a congregation. A and B are both breaking the seal. Just because the congregation isn’t hearing that it is coming from Confession doesn’t make the difference. The matter isn’t about whether other people know because they shouldn’t, it is about trust and breaking a promise to keep the secrecy of the Confessional. This is a Sacrament we are talking about.

What Joannm said is alright. If the priest already has a homily prepared before hearing Confessions and he tells his penitents to listen to his homily, which just happens to be on the same subject, that is good.

I don’t think you people understand the proper manner in which Confessions should be treated. I’m sorry for being the one asking you for help. I wish I could help you.
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Daniel, with all respect I don’t know of a single canonist or moral theologian (who are surely the experts on how the Seal of Confession applies, since it is a matter of Canon Law and moral theology) who would agree with your interpretation of the Seal.
 
My interpretation “to make use of any information” comes from the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church. Check it before you say anything further, you are on the verge of sin.
 
This thread is now Closed.
I encourage the OP to discuss the matter with his priest, then his bishop, and a canon lawyer if need be.

Thank you all for your replies.

Klara
 
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