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Aulef
Guest
The stars will fall, the sun and the moon will darken, and the shofar will be heard all around the world.
These are some probable signs.
These are some probable signs.
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Crusader13
New member
These passages are in reference to the fall of nations and rulers. It was biblical imagery used to denote the fall of Roman leaders and the Jewish hierarchy during the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad.
It doesn’t mean a literal collapse of the stars in outer space or the darkening of our own sun.
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EndTimes
Guest
Public Revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle…
As the time of His Return gets closer - Prophecied Signs accompaning it is all any shall ever need.
Whether they’re taken as Signs of His Forthcoming or not - is another matter…
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Aulef
Guest
We will see
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undead_rat
Guest
The Church also teaches that the “fire” of Luke 12:49 is the flame of the Pentecost. In my opinion, that is incorrect. Jesus said He had come to bring “fire to the earth.” That “fire” is the fire of Isaiah 66:15-16; it is the fire of judgement, and it is staring us in the face: global nuclear war.
With all due respect to the Church, I am not Catholic and am therefore not bound to accept everything that the Church teaches.
With all due respect to the Church, I am not Catholic and am therefore not bound to accept everything that the Church teaches.
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undead_rat
Guest
The stars falling is a difficult prediction to imagine. I think that it refers to a multiple nuclear ICBM attack.
A nuclear bomb is, in reality, a mini star when it detonates.
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EndTimes
Guest
Many Many Things - connected with God are not easy to imagine… when one forgets God’s Powers
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GLam1761
Guest
You may have something there, ever heard of biological warfare “gone bad”?
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GLam1761
Guest
Covid19 can and does precipitate “a great apostasy” I believe ppl who went to church for the “wrong” reasons will leave off going back to church, imho.
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Elf01
Guest
That would be a good thing.
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GLam1761
Guest
I have heard it said that our solar system is Revolving or Roaming
about our Galaxy.“the Milky Way” and it seems that we moving in
a direction that could be in collision w/ the nearest stars
I have heard it said that our solar system is Revolving or Roaming
about our Galaxy and moreover Other Galaxies, our nearest being
Andromeda, is moving TOWARDS each other. therefore SOMETIME
in the future there COULD well be stars and planets and space debris
colliding!! Solar System movement thru Space!
about our Galaxy.“the Milky Way” and it seems that we moving in
a direction that could be in collision w/ the nearest stars
I have heard it said that our solar system is Revolving or Roaming
about our Galaxy and moreover Other Galaxies, our nearest being
Andromeda, is moving TOWARDS each other. therefore SOMETIME
in the future there COULD well be stars and planets and space debris
colliding!! Solar System movement thru Space!
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EndTimes
Guest
It’s not even easy to imagine biological warfare ‘gone good’
Bio-Warfare has been R&D’d for decades…
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Carmel
Guest
I don’t think the Church teaches incorrect things. She (the Church )was given a teaching mandate from the Lord himself," Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven "
If you understand the character of God. He invites us to make a good choice and, good choices are rewarded. If, on the other hand man deliberately rejects God’s will there will be a punishment .
If you understand the character of God. He invites us to make a good choice and, good choices are rewarded. If, on the other hand man deliberately rejects God’s will there will be a punishment .
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Aulef
Guest
The hydrogen bomb is like a star, actually.
Somehow, I think it is literal. Maybe they will fall, but not on earth. It could be a way to say that they will fall beyond the sight of the horizon and then disappear…
Only God knows for sure…
Somehow, I think it is literal. Maybe they will fall, but not on earth. It could be a way to say that they will fall beyond the sight of the horizon and then disappear…
Only God knows for sure…
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J.r.r.chesterlewis
Guest
As to the fire of God being nuclear warfare, it is a very interesting opinion. However, Isaiah say’s, “For behold, the Lord will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire will the Lord execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the Lord shall be many." The fires referred to here and in Luke, whether or not they have already happened, will be of God, not of man. global nuclear warfare would be a great evil indeed, and God’s very nature is goodness. I find it very unlikely that He would use missiles to end the world. Perhaps Isaiah was referring to God’s judgement in the last days, but Christ himself said, “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet.” (Matthew 24:6)
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EndTimes
Guest
The Church’s ultimate trial
**Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.
**The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.
**The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581
**Following in the steps of the prophets and John the Baptist, Jesus announced the judgment of the Last Day in his preaching.582 Then will the conduct of each one and the secrets of hearts be brought to light.583 Then will the culpable unbelief that counted the offer of God’s grace as nothing be condemned.584 Our attitude to our neighbor will disclose acceptance or refusal of grace and divine love.585 On the Last Day Jesus will say: “Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.”
680 Christ the Lord already reigns through the Church, but all the things of this world are not yet subjected to him. The triumph of Christ’s kingdom will not come about without one last assault by the powers of evil.
681 On Judgment Day at the end of the world, Christ will come in glory to achieve the definitive triumph of good over evil which, like the wheat and the tares, have grown up together in the course of history.
682 When he comes at the end of time to judge the living and the dead, the glorious Christ will reveal the secret disposition of hearts and will render to each man according to his works, and according to his acceptance or refusal of grace.
**Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.
**The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.
**The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581
**Following in the steps of the prophets and John the Baptist, Jesus announced the judgment of the Last Day in his preaching.582 Then will the conduct of each one and the secrets of hearts be brought to light.583 Then will the culpable unbelief that counted the offer of God’s grace as nothing be condemned.584 Our attitude to our neighbor will disclose acceptance or refusal of grace and divine love.585 On the Last Day Jesus will say: “Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.”
680 Christ the Lord already reigns through the Church, but all the things of this world are not yet subjected to him. The triumph of Christ’s kingdom will not come about without one last assault by the powers of evil.
681 On Judgment Day at the end of the world, Christ will come in glory to achieve the definitive triumph of good over evil which, like the wheat and the tares, have grown up together in the course of history.
682 When he comes at the end of time to judge the living and the dead, the glorious Christ will reveal the secret disposition of hearts and will render to each man according to his works, and according to his acceptance or refusal of grace.
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undead_rat
Guest
Thanks for your reply. The Jerusalem Bible gives this very similar rendering of 66:15-16
For see how YHWH comes in fire
His chariots like the tempest
to assuage HIs anger with burning
His threats with brilliant fire.
For by fire will YHWH execute judgment
and by His sword against all mankind.
The victims of YHWH will be many.
Chariots are vehicles of war. So are ICBMs which make a terrible noise when launched, like a tempest.
Perhaps the Prophet could not conceive that mankind would ever invent such a device, so he attributed it to YHWH. Or perhaps we are wrong to place any kind of limit on how YHWH will manifest Himself. Many other passages of the OT seem to be consistent with the premise of a global nuclear war: Isaiah 2:19, Jeremiah 25:32-33, etc.
Psalm 9:15-16
The nations have fallen into the pit that they dug.
They are caught by the feet in the snare they set themselves.
YHWH has made Himself known, has given judgment.
He has trapped the wicked in the work of their own hands.
For see how YHWH comes in fire
His chariots like the tempest
to assuage HIs anger with burning
His threats with brilliant fire.
For by fire will YHWH execute judgment
and by His sword against all mankind.
The victims of YHWH will be many.
Chariots are vehicles of war. So are ICBMs which make a terrible noise when launched, like a tempest.
Perhaps the Prophet could not conceive that mankind would ever invent such a device, so he attributed it to YHWH. Or perhaps we are wrong to place any kind of limit on how YHWH will manifest Himself. Many other passages of the OT seem to be consistent with the premise of a global nuclear war: Isaiah 2:19, Jeremiah 25:32-33, etc.
Psalm 9:15-16
The nations have fallen into the pit that they dug.
They are caught by the feet in the snare they set themselves.
YHWH has made Himself known, has given judgment.
He has trapped the wicked in the work of their own hands.
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undead_rat
Guest
With all due respect to the Church, I believe that the CCC which says that the fire of Luke 12:49 is the fire of the Pentecost is not correct. The flames of the Pentecost are for men, where as the fire of Luke 12:49 is what Jesus will bring to the earth. Isaiah 66:15-16 explicitly defines YHWH’s judgment as a being by fire.
You are correct when you note that the Church was given authority over the Law, but that is not the same as the power to incorrectly interpret prophecy and thereby change the ordained future.
You are correct when you note that the Church was given authority over the Law, but that is not the same as the power to incorrectly interpret prophecy and thereby change the ordained future.
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Carmel
Guest
The whole context of that passage is spiritual in nature and I can see for myself that Jesus is referring to the cleansing fire of the Holy Spirit which will be poured out on humanity . But the Church has known that all along.
Your interpretation of this passage indicates someone who thinks that everything can only be resolved by a nuclear holucaust.
Your interpretation of this passage indicates someone who thinks that everything can only be resolved by a nuclear holucaust.
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undead_rat
Guest
Luke 12:49
I have come to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were blazing already!
The context of this statement is Jesus’ anguish before His crucifixion. If the fire of a nuclear war were to be enacted at that time, He would be spared His ordeal.
You mention “resolution.” The resolution of our terrible situation can be obtained by unilateral nuclear disarmament. The consequences of our failure to undertake that essential step will be the global nuclear war which is predicted in Holy Scripture. This terrible disaster will be the visitation of YHWH to the earth which is the same as the Second Coming.
I have come to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were blazing already!
The context of this statement is Jesus’ anguish before His crucifixion. If the fire of a nuclear war were to be enacted at that time, He would be spared His ordeal.
You mention “resolution.” The resolution of our terrible situation can be obtained by unilateral nuclear disarmament. The consequences of our failure to undertake that essential step will be the global nuclear war which is predicted in Holy Scripture. This terrible disaster will be the visitation of YHWH to the earth which is the same as the Second Coming.
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