The Second Coming

[Vimy_Ridge]

I have often wondered what was meant in Matthew 24:34 when Christ describes His Second Coming and declares that “this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.”

I spent time in a Benedictine Monastery and asked a priest there, who was a biblical scholar, what this meant. His answer was that Jesus was mistaken. Revelation also speaks of the Second Coming happening soon.

How do you folks understand these type of verses?

 

[Mintaka]

Well, I was thinking about this recently.

Some of those things did happen before “this generation” passed away. Jesus’ prophecy was fulfilled. Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed. The Jewish world ended in cannibalism and slaughter.

But when it comes to the other stuff… well, if God is the God of Abraham and Isaac and so forth, and they’re still around; and if Moses and Elijah can drop by, and they’re still around; it’s fairly obvious that “this generation” is also still hanging around, and will eventually see the fulfillment of the rest of the prophecies. (Considering the Sadducees didn’t believe in resurrection or afterlife or souls, this really is an important statement.)

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

Well, I was thinking about this recently.

Some of those things did happen before “this generation” passed away. Jesus’ prophecy was fulfilled. Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed. The Jewish world ended in cannibalism and slaughter.

But when it comes to the other stuff… well, if God is the God of Abraham and Isaac and so forth, and they’re still around; and if Moses and Elijah can drop by, and they’re still around; it’s fairly obvious that “this generation” is also still hanging around, and will eventually see the fulfillment of the rest of the prophecies. (Considering the Sadducees didn’t believe in resurrection or afterlife or souls, this really is an important statement.)

Similar to how some consider “this generation” to be the people of Israel. When the priest told me that Jesus was mistaken, it sounded like the most obvious answer. Though that does raise a problem if you believe scripture is without error. In His humanity could Jesus have been wrong or did the gospel writer put those words in His mouth?

 

[Kevin_Scott]

The Bible is rife with inconsistencies, contradictions, and ambiguities. For that reason it is possible for a person from any school of thought to make it into a wide variety religious perspectives, none of which can be proven to be ultimately superior to all others.

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

The Bible is rife with inconsistencies, contradictions, and ambiguities. For that reason it is possible for a person from any school of thought to make it into a wide variety religious perspectives, none of which can be proven to be ultimately superior to all others.

Yes, there are many voices in the bible, all giving their view of God. I read it in a non-literal way now.

 

[Luke65]

There are a few acceptable ways to interpret this, but it is not acceptable to say that Jesus was wrong. That is a heretical statement - Jesus was omniscient (fully God) during His earthly life. I would not attend a Mass celebrated by this priest as he may be excommunicated.

Now, the truth is that this is a dual prophecy. Here is what the disciples asked our Lord:

“Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

And so Jesus answered them: He told them when the Temple would be destroyed, and when the Second Coming would take place. On the first level, the answer is obvious: “this generation” - Jesus’ immediate audience - did not pass away before God judged Israel, using the Roman Empire, which destroyed the Temple in 70AD. On the second level, we’ll need to look at more of what Jesus said:

“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.”

The lesson from the fig tree is this: Jesus had just cursed the fig tree and it shriveled up and died (Matt. 21:18). This signified God’s judgment on Israel, which “died” in 70AD. So, when you see the fig tree come back to life, know that “this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.”

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

There are a few acceptable ways to interpret this, but it is not acceptable to say that Jesus was wrong. That is a heretical statement - Jesus was omniscient (fully God) during His earthly life. I would not attend a Mass celebrated by this priest as he may be excommunicated.

Now, the truth is that this is a dual prophecy. Here is what the disciples asked our Lord:

“Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

And so Jesus answered them: He told them when the Temple would be destroyed, and when the Second Coming would take place. On the first level, the answer is obvious: “this generation” - Jesus’ immediate audience - did not pass away before God judged Israel, using the Roman Empire, which destroyed the Temple in 70AD. On the second level, we’ll need to look at more of what Jesus said:

“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.”

The lesson from the fig tree is this: Jesus had just cursed the fig tree and it shriveled up and died (Matt. 21:18). This signified God’s judgment on Israel, which “died” in 70AD. So, when you see the fig tree come back to life, know that “this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.”

Interesting answer. The fig tree that comes back to life is who? Israel as a nation in Palestine?

 

[Eucharisted]

“This generation” refers to Peter, James, and John, whom were privledged to see Jesus in His glory at the Transfiguration. That is why Jesus said they wouldn’t die before they saw Him coming in glory.

Edit: My mistake, I thought it was Jesus explaining a parable.

Matthew 24:34 is about the destruction of Jerusalem and the second coming, which Jews believed to be a springtime (Jesus uses the fig tree to illustrate springtime). “This generation” refers to the Church, which will pass on Jesus’ words - the gospel - until the end of the ages, which is why Jesus said His words will never pass away.

 

[Snerticus]

Jesus was mistaken? I don’t think so.

What is most likely the case is that humans who interpret Jesus are mistaken. Either that or what came out of the priest’s mouth was not exactly what he intended. Or you could have misunderstood the priest. Or actually a number of things.

But Jesus being mistaken is definitely not one of them.

God Bless,
Snert

 

[cheeto1]

I wouldn’t exactly say “mistaken”, but I think it proves that Jesus was telling the
truth when He said He did not know the day or the hour, and neither did the angels,
but only the Father. He did not know at that time, so He had to look at the signs,
like everyone else, and He is saying the signs were almost ready, and very near.

 

[Luke65]

Interesting answer. The fig tree that comes back to life is who? Israel as a nation in Palestine?

Yes, according to this interpretation, the countdown began in 1948…

“He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day, that we may live before Him.” (Hosea 6:2)

“But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years…” (2 Peter 3:8)

 

[puzzleannie]

quite simply generation in this prophecy does not mean a cohort of a population demographic born at a certain time, it means whatever Jesus intended it to mean, and as usual, revelatory prophecy has layers of meaning. First the generation or cohort of those alive at that place and time, and that referred to the destruction of the temple, and the establishment of his kingdom on earth at its inception in His new Church through His new Covenant. This Generation also means that the Church then, in it infancy, throughout history, present day and as long as she exists on Earth when she will witness the final battle and the Second Coming.

“It’s all in Plato” as the professor says, but I say “It’s all in Narnia” and I really think Lewis’ method of storytelling in child’s terms so accurately describes so many of these Christian realities. Or maybe I just have a childlike understanding, but I think his compression of time in that series and the Last Battle description are so apt.

 

[matahari]

I have often wondered what was meant in Matthew 24:34 when Christ describes His Second Coming and declares that “this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.”

I spent time in a Benedictine Monastery and asked a priest there, who was a biblical scholar, what this meant. His answer was that Jesus was mistaken. Revelation also speaks of the Second Coming happening soon.

How do you folks understand these type of verses?

---

I believe the Bible is inerrant which is why it is called ’ The Word of God ’
Jesus’ prophecy about the Destruction of Jerusalem and the End of the World are together in Matthew Ch. 24 because the destruction of Jerusalem which took place in 70AD is a type or prophecy of the destruction at the end of the world
The destruction of Jerusalem is punishment for Israel’s rejection of the Saviour
The end of the world destruction will be punishment for the world’s rejection of the Saviour

The destruction of Jerusalem was the end of A world
the end of the Jewish world
Many signs and portents were seen and heard both in the sky above Jerusalem
and in Jerusalem itself prior to the Roman invasion and destruction of the city.

Even Jesus prediction to His disciples about the Temple " not one stone will be left standing on another " Apparently the Romans dismantled the Temple brick by brick looking for gold.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Some take the Gospel passages to mean that since Jesus had already described the end of the world, then the passage is saying “this generation” is stretched to mean the entire age of Jesus until His 2nd coming. But that is not what it means. This passage is answered in the Greek word γένηται, which is an indefinite aorist. Being an ingressive aorist we can understand it to have a nuance that would make the passage to be understood like this, “I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things begin to come to pass (γένηται).”

This nuance of the same aorist form may also be seen in the angel Gabriel’s words to Zechariah (Luke 1:20): “And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day these things happen (γένηται ταῦτα)." Not only the birth but the adult ministry of John the Baptist is prophesied in vv. 13-17, yet Zechariah recovers his speech as soon as he writes the name of his infant son John on a tablet (vv. 62-64). Accordingly, v. 20 should be understood as, “And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day these things begin to happen.”

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

Jesus was mistaken? I don’t think so.

What is most likely the case is that humans who interpret Jesus are mistaken. Either that or what came out of the priest’s mouth was not exactly what he intended. Or you could have misunderstood the priest.

No, he definitely said that. Some priests follow a way of interpreting the Bible that questions many things in the scriptures. They seperate the "Historical Jesus " from the “Christ of Faith.”

 

[Snerticus]

I understand a priest questioning things, but saying that God was mistaken? If he was agnostic or athiest, I could understand. But he’s a priest. His credibility would go out the window, regardless if he was a scholor or theologian, or a good friend.

That should have thrown up a big red flag.

Snert

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

I understand a priest questioning things, but saying that God was mistaken? If he was agnostic or athiest, I could understand. But he’s a priest. His credibility would go out the window, regardless if he was a scholor or theologian, or a good friend.

That should have thrown up a big red flag.

Snert

I had visited a few religious orders and was considering joining one but was learning quickly that many individuals did not believe the things you thought they would. By the time I met him it was not a shock anymore. These kind of statements, among other things, kept me from joining.

 

[Snerticus]

I had visited a few religious orders and was considering joining one but was learning quickly that many individuals did not believe the things you thought they would. By the time I met him it was not a shock anymore. These kind of statements, among other things, kept me from joining.

I’m gland your gut feeling won you over. I too was shocked to find so many bad theologists in the Church when I re-converted. I thought the entire Church agreed on teaching, but then I heard about all of the dissention going on.

It was difficult, and still is to a point, for me to find authentic teaching. But I think reading the Catechism is the best start. From there, it makes it much easier to discern error

Snert.

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

I’m gland your gut feeling won you over. I too was shocked to find so many bad theologists in the Church when I re-converted. I thought the entire Church agreed on teaching, but then I heard about all of the dissention going on.

It was difficult, and still is to a point, for me to find authentic teaching. But I think reading the Catechism is the best start. From there, it makes it much easier to discern error

Snert.

Yeah ,that’s the tricky part. The “bad theologians” do contradict the Church but they do make compelling arguements. I’ve read books by ‘Hans Kung’ and ‘Marcus Borg’ (not Catholic) and now I know what more liberal clergy are thinking, before that I did not know why they said the things they did.

 

[Kevin_Scott]

I have often wondered what was meant in Matthew 24:34 when Christ describes His Second Coming and declares that “this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.”

I spent time in a Benedictine Monastery and asked a priest there, who was a biblical scholar, what this meant. His answer was that Jesus was mistaken. Revelation also speaks of the Second Coming happening soon.

How do you folks understand these type of verses?

This is an example of fallibility of the Bible. As with Genesis, as portions of the Bible are proven to be incorrect, Christian theologians are forced to come up with alternative meanings to passages that were written quite clearly.

Jesus was probably not mistaken, he was probably misquoted.