The Sermon on the Mount

[Clovis]

When I first understood The Sermon on the Mount I was tongue-tied. It made such an impact on me that I became deeply depressed, as I realize it was pure perfection and nothing else, and we all somehow fall short, but God loves us. I no longer judge people. Nor do I speak meanly, but hold my tongue. I try to give freely anytime I am able. I leave the world of things more day by day and enter the world of life more hour by hour. I still sometimes feel sad and worthless but it comforts me to know the Lord.

 

[NotWorthy]

Clovis, do you have any study guides on the Sermon on the Mount? If so, what do you recommend?

 

[Clovis]

My favorite part is ‘judge not, least you be judged’, it is the easiest at first to apply, you just have to brake from all your predetermined thoughts of heaven and hell and intuitions of who is going where. if an atheist was raised by atheists, or a murderer was raised by a thief, who are we to judged, wounds beget wounds, and I wish all wounds healing. I don’t know of any specific text to study as far as The Sermon, but good luck on your search, and p.m. me if you find some good text via the Internet on anything scripture.

 

[thistle]

My favorite part is ‘judge not, least you be judged’, it is the easiest at first to apply, you just have to brake from all your predetermined thoughts of heaven and hell and intuitions of who is going where. if an atheist was raised by atheists, or a murderer was raised by a thief, who are we to judged, wounds beget wounds, and I wish all wounds healing. I don’t know of any specific text to study as far as The Sermon, but good luck on your search, and p.m. me if you find some good text via the Internet on anything scripture.

Go to this link then click on Matthew 5,6,7.

haydock1859.tripod.com/

 

[Clovis]

thank you thistle,

but i have both KJV and an authoritive translation of the vulgate on my computer already.

 

[mtcapretta]

After reading I take solace in the statement of that some had different spots in heaven- even those who broke the law had the least spot in heaven - while I aspire for a good spot with what I may be able to do with his strenght - I have assurances of my salvation

 

[COPLAND_3]

Also you might want to click on the link of the Aquinas Study Bible, there is some great material on the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[NotWorthy]

After reading I take solace in the statement of that some had different spots in heaven- even those who broke the law had the least spot in heaven - while I aspire for a good spot with what I may be able to do with his strenght - I have assurances of my salvation

Without questioning the “assurance in heaven” statement, where does Jesus say in the Sermon on the Mount the underlined portion of your post?

 

[steve9191]

When I first understood The Sermon on the Mount I was tongue-tied. It made such an impact on me that I became deeply depressed, as I realize it was pure perfection and nothing else, and we all somehow fall short, but God loves us. I no longer judge people. Nor do I speak meanly, but hold my tongue. I try to give freely anytime I am able. I leave the world of things more day by day and enter the world of life more hour by hour. I still sometimes feel sad and worthless but it comforts me to know the Lord.

What was the proximate cause of your understanding? Obviously, all understanding of Truth comes from the Holy Spirit; what I am asking is what vehicle did the Spirit use?

Are you familiar with John Paul II’s interpretation of the deeper meaning of the Sermon on the Mount? He ties it in with puruty of the heart and inextricably links the Sermon with the redemption of the body described in Romans 8:23.

 

[thistle]

For an excellent commentary on The Sermon On The Mount I recommend reading the book Jesus Of Nazareth by Pope Benedict XVI.

 

[trogiah]

Without questioning the “assurance in heaven” statement, where does Jesus say in the Sermon on the Mount the underlined portion of your post?

I think the OP is referring to this

“Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven”

Chapter 5 vs 19

 

[trogiah]

When I first understood The Sermon on the Mount I was tongue-tied. It made such an impact on me that I became deeply depressed, as I realize it was pure perfection and nothing else, and we all somehow fall short, but God loves us. I no longer judge people. Nor do I speak meanly, but hold my tongue. I try to give freely anytime I am able. I leave the world of things more day by day and enter the world of life more hour by hour. I still sometimes feel sad and worthless but it comforts me to know the Lord.

I find a great deal of inspiration, consolation, justification and peace of mind when I read the Sermon on the Mount. That was before I made any sense of the beattitudes. Once they started to make sense, It was like finding a second buried treasure.

Here are some reflections on the first 6
willapabay.org/~ljcarney/sthelen.htm
willapabay.org/~ljcarney/adams.htm
willapabay.org/~ljcarney/Baker.htm

Peace

Jim

 

[NotWorthy]

I think the OP is referring to this

“Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven”

Chapter 5 vs 19

I don’t think that implies that one will still have a spot in heaven. Elsewhere in Matthew’s Gospel, Jesus makes is VERY CLEAR that, if one leads others astray with false teaching, then he will be worse off than one thrown into the sea with a loadstone around his neck.

Chapter 18 v. 6 (Also Mark 9:42)

 

[trogiah]

I don’t think that implies that one will still have a spot in heaven. Elsewhere in Matthew’s Gospel, Jesus makes is VERY CLEAR that, if one leads others astray with false teaching, then he will be worse off than one thrown into the sea with a loadstone around his neck.

Chapter 18 v. 6 (Also Mark 9:42)

I thought I would copy and paste a couple of verses.

“Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.* And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me.
“Whoever causes one of these little ones* who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

I think it is very much worth distinguishing between leading a simple believer away from a loving relationship with Jesus, and opting to not follow details of the law like washing before meals in a particular way, fasting on particular holy days, etc.

Jesus has sometimes been misrepresented as saying that following details of the law was somehow misguided. He never told anyone not to follow the law. He did say that it was more important to follow the laws of justice, mercy, and good faith than to follow the laws about hand washing, tithing, etc. but that someone who is great in God’s kingdom is someone who would follow all the laws.

Someone who forgets to abstain from meat on a Friday in Lent will not be called the greatest Catholic but still (as I read Matthew chapter 5) have a place in God’s kingdom. Someone who tries to convince a simple believer that they must hate someone else because God commands it is guilty of a much greater offense and I think the comments about millstones applies to them.

Peace

Jim

 

[NotWorthy]

I thought I would copy and paste a couple of verses.

“Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.* And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me.
“Whoever causes one of these little ones* who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

I think it is very much worth distinguishing between leading a simple believer away from a loving relationship with Jesus, and opting to not follow details of the law like washing before meals in a particular way, fasting on particular holy days, etc.

Jesus has sometimes been misrepresented as saying that following details of the law was somehow misguided. He never told anyone not to follow the law. He did say that it was more important to follow the laws of justice, mercy, and good faith than to follow the laws about hand washing, tithing, etc. but that someone who is great in God’s kingdom is someone who would follow all the laws.

Someone who forgets to abstain from meat on a Friday in Lent will not be called the greatest Catholic but still (as I read Matthew chapter 5) have a place in God’s kingdom. Someone who tries to convince a simple believer that they must hate someone else because God commands it is guilty of a much greater offense and I think the comments about millstones applies to them.

Peace

Jim

Which is why I specifically asked where in the Sermon on the Mount does Jesus make the claim.

The original quote was used to support this is:
“Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments** and teaches others to do so** will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven”

Chapter 5 vs 19

This is why I showed the corresponding teaching by Jesus that shows just what happens to those who teach others to disobey the commandments.

They receive the old “Lodestone Life Preserver” treatment… or would be better of if they had (shutter).

The verse that you accurately sited is not found in the Sermon on the Mount, however. If I remember correctly, that is somewhere around Matthew 18 (sorry, I’m feeling a little lazy tonight, so I’m going off memory.

 

[trogiah]

The quote you quoted is the source of the idea that breaking a small commandment will not result in being expelled from God’s kingdom but rather result in a lesser postion in God’s kingdom.

If I could take for example a couple of small commandments. They seem small to me. The eating with unwashed hands that is alluded to in the gospels and the abstinence from eating meat on Fridays of Lent. These are the sorts of things that the scribes and Pharisees were very good at. But they fell short in other more signficant areas.

Jesus states very specifially that things that are eaten or not eaten are not what defile a person. If I (out of forgetfullness, laziness, or just a moment of weakness) have pepperoni on a pizza on a Friday of Lent, then I am showing weakness of character and some lack of discipline. If I say to my dinner partner who is Catholic, “Don’t worry about it, God will forgive you.” I am not helping them acquire discipline or strength. But nor am I preaching heresy. (I think this is the sort of thing being referred to in Matthew Chapter 5)

If on the other hand I say to a simple believer in Christ, “Why bother listening to what Jesus has to say, Nothing he says would be worthwhile.” Then I am guilty of something far greater. (I think this is the sort of thing being referred to in Matthew Chapter 18)

peace

Jim

 

[NotWorthy]

The quote you quoted is the source of the idea that breaking a small commandment will not result in being expelled from God’s kingdom but rather result in a lesser postion in God’s kingdom.

If I could take for example a couple of small commandments. They seem small to me. The eating with unwashed hands that is alluded to in the gospels and the abstinence from eating meat on Fridays of Lent. These are the sorts of things that the scribes and Pharisees were very good at. But they fell short in other more signficant areas.

Jesus states very specifially that things that are eaten or not eaten are not what defile a person. If I (out of forgetfullness, laziness, or just a moment of weakness) have pepperoni on a pizza on a Friday of Lent, then I am showing weakness of character and some lack of discipline. If I say to my dinner partner who is Catholic, “Don’t worry about it, God will forgive you.” I am not helping them acquire discipline or strength. But nor am I preaching heresy. (I think this is the sort of thing being referred to in Matthew Chapter 5)

If on the other hand I say to a simple believer in Christ, “Why bother listening to what Jesus has to say, Nothing he says would be worthwhile.” Then I am guilty of something far greater. (I think this is the sort of thing being referred to in Matthew Chapter 18)

peace

Jim

My friend, I am not questioning your teaching. I’m questioning the poster who said that the Sermon on the Mount teaches that

even those who broke the law had the least spot in heaven - while I aspire for a good spot with what I may be able to do with his strenght - I have assurances of my salvation

I don’t see where the Sermon teaches that.

The Sermon on the Mount teaches us how to be Holy and how to strive to be perfect in the Lord. It doesn’t teach about assurances and sinning just a little (or a lot) and getting into heaven, even if by the skin of our teeth.