The Serpent

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Before eating the apple, they couldn’t evaluate any situation because everything was good. Adam and Eve were naked before God and they were not ashamed.
After the sin they were ashamed before God but not of one another.
They knew and understood that God created everything, and they knew they have to listen to Him. What did “death” mean to them before the sin? Probably only disappearance, without any suffering.
I think that after they ate the apple, there was a moral sense of their actions, displaying your nakedness is good only towards the person you have sex with, thus they felt the need to hide from God. I also think that the evaluation of a situation is different from calculating ends: if they were to calculate, they would have thought that nothing would happen anyway. Protecting your nakedness is one of the first things somebody learns it is good. Do not touch that because it is painful, is a little bit different, it is very concrete.
 
if anyone says that something God told them was not understood in exactly the way that God wanted them to know it then you are saying that God is less than a perfect commuicator of truth or worse such as intentionaly deciving them. Therefore, they had to know what evil, and death etc. means.
 
wmw said:
if anyone says that something God told them was not understood in exactly the way that God wanted them to know it then you are saying that God is less than a perfect commuicator of truth or worse such as intentionaly deciving them. Therefore, they had to know what evil, and death etc. means.
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I do not understand the first part, who and what was told, you say it like somebody pretends to misunderstand God?:confused: Or is trying to say something bad about God?
If you say … then you are saying…:confused:

Can you be a little more specific in the second part? From what moment they had to know “what evil, and death etc means” ? And how are they connected? And what did it mean? Death was mentioned before sin, evil was mentioned after the fall.
 
What is unclear: you eat the fruit you disappear from the creation !
They knew they would achieve the knowledge of good and evil, but before the fall, good and evil were abstract things; like the blue sky for a blind man. Eve desired the fruit because she thought she would get wisdom. Knowledge. She did not have that knowledge before the fall.
Also with their nakedness. They could see that they are naked, but they did not know the meaning of nakedness.
 
Ion said:
What is unclear: you eat the fruit you disappear from the creation !
They knew they would achieve the knowledge of good and evil, but before the fall, good and evil were abstract things; like the blue sky for a blind man. Eve desired the fruit because she thought she would get wisdom. Knowledge. She did not have that knowledge before the fall.
Also with their nakedness. They could see that they are naked, but they did not know the meaning of nakedness.
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And what word wisdom and knowledge means to an inexperience person, that is not like a blue sky to a blind person?
 
Bahman said:
And what word wisdom and knowledge means to an inexperience person, that is not like a blue sky to a blind person?
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They did have wisdom and knowledge before the fall so they knew what they mean. But they did not have the knowledge of good and evil.
 
Ion said:
They did have wisdom and knowledge before the fall so they knew what they mean. But they did not have the knowledge of good and evil.
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How wisdom is possible without knowledge of good and evil?
 
Bahman said:
How wisdom is possible without knowledge of good and evil?
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Like this:
“And the woman answered him, saying: Of the fruit of the trees that are in paradise
we do eat: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of paradise, God hath commanded us that we should not eat; and that we should not touch it, lest perhaps we die”
 
Lonewolf90 said:
God told them that they would die. Not know good and evil.
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Yes. Eve was wise not to eat from the tree, but fell into temptation with a push from the serpent.
The knowledge of good and evil come because they ate from the fruit. A sample of how Eve thought before she fell in the temptation is in Genesis.
The story is consistent. What is your problem ?:confused:
 
Lonewolf90 said:
God told them that they would die. Not know good and evil.
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:twocents:

Adam and Eve, eating of the fruit, appropriated morality, which belongs to God. They became the judges of what constitutes right from wrong. Choosing their will over that of God, they broke their connection to Him and fell into ignorance. God is the ultimate judge; we should not even judge ourselves. But God has intervened through the ages, sending prophets, His commandments and His son that we might find our way back home. The serpent lied, it was not true knowledge that we attained. A decision, (whether made alone or by committee) that something is good does not make it so, in spite of what secular society would have us believe.

There are other interpretations. The two trees sit in the centre of the garden, and represent how we were made with God at the centre of our existence in the world. The trees represent the wood of the cross - Christ’s death (the outcome of our choosing sin) and resurrection (eternal life). Rather than saying, “No”, we ate of the fruit which brought sin and death into us. Now, in the Eucharist, we bring into ourselves the body of Christ, offering us everlasting joy face to face with God, where we were meant to be, where we would be, could we crush the serpent’s head.
 
Aloysium said:
:twocents:

Adam and Eve, eating of the fruit, appropriated morality, which belongs to God. They became the judges of what constitutes right from wrong. Choosing their will over that of God, they broke their connection to Him and fell into ignorance. God is the ultimate judge; we should not even judge ourselves. But God has intervened through the ages, sending prophets, His commandments and His son that we might find our way back home. The serpent lied, it was not true knowledge that we attained. A decision, (whether made alone or by committee) that something is good does not make it so, in spite of what secular society would have us believe.

There are other interpretations. The two trees sit in the centre of the garden, and represent how we were made with God at the centre of our existence in the world. The trees represent the wood of the cross - Christ’s death (the outcome of our choosing sin) and resurrection (eternal life). Rather than saying, “No”, we ate of the fruit which brought sin and death into us. Now, in the Eucharist, we bring into ourselves the body of Christ, offering us everlasting joy face to face with God, where we were meant to be, where we would be, could we crush the serpent’s head.
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Beautiful
 
My problem is that you cant do something that you have no idea about . They didnt know evil until they ate the fruit so why would they do an evil such as eating the fruit?
 
Lonewolf90 said:
My problem is that you cant do something that you have no idea about . They didnt know evil until they ate the fruit so why would they do an evil such as eating the fruit?
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They did have the perspective of good and evil about their sin only after the sin. Before the sin they were supposed to listen to the Creator in order to live in harmony as part of the creation. They did not know about the death in all the details but only the main thing, that they would disappear from the world. They did not know what good and evil is, but they knew they have knowledge and wisdom and understood them as something useful (as much as it can be without the knowledge of good and evil). So the knowledge of good and evil looked to them desirable even if they did not know the details. So they did have an idea about, but without the details. At the time of the act it was an act of disobedience, later on they understood it was evil.
The knowledge of good and evil is like asking God his opinion about something.
 
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