...the seven deadly sins

[Saoirse]

I learned in Grade 12 religion, after switching to the Catholic school system, that St. Thomas Aquinas wrote about the moral ground being the middle ground; for example, it is both wrong to be wasteful and wrong to be greedy… the middle ground would thus be considered generousity. This theory was also discussed in Philosophy in our unit on Ethics.

In RCIA last week, we learned about sin; mortal sin vs. venial sin, how to define sin, etc…

In reading about the seven deadly sins, I have a few questions.

First, are the Seven Deadly sins even worse than mortal sins, like an even worse degree or something?

Also, couldn’t some of these things be considered good in the right context and amount?

Examples:

Pride - defined as an inordinate sense of one’s importance. Can there not also be healthy pride - such as a teacher for a student, a parent for a child, an artist for their work, a scientist for their science? A healthy pride or an awareness that one’s work, or one’s self, or a loved one - has done a good job - or has done something to be proud of - is that evil? would then an excess of pride be considered the sin, whereas a lack of healthy pride might also be evil as it can lead one to self-destructive behaviour?

Greed - no complaints there. seems to me that greed is wanting something to the exclusion of sharing it with others - even being greedy for God’s love would be evil, as it would deny other’s that particular gift if it could.

Envy - does jealousy always mean begruding of good that another possesses? because I have always thought it meant wanting something that someone else already has - which, honestly, is why I am in RCIA - because I saw how valuable the faith of various people was, and wanted to gain that same faith for myself. would that mean that I am converting for the wrong reasons, if envy was the cause? Envy in my mind not begrudging others, but eagerly wanting them to share something they have with me?

Anger - cannot there be righteous anger? in the Gospels, even Jesus had a temper - remember His reaction to the degradation of the Temple? In my own life, I have found repression of anger to be more harmful than healthy expression of anger - and a healthy allowance for that emotion.

Lust - no questions… except that what if one cannot entirely control their thoughts, but tries? I mean, I personally have experiences attractions to other women and other such innapropriate attractions - and I have been told that the attractions or temptations, in and of themselves, are not sinful - it is just the act of sex outside marriage between a man and a woman that is sin… but then Jesus says that if someone looks at someone else with lust in their heart, they have committed adultery… so is struggling with sexual thoughts - but whenever one is aware of them preventing them/blocking them - is that a sin? is it a sin to have a lustful or sexual dream about another person?

Gluttony - no questions

Sloth - no questions

love
Saoirse

 

[thistle]

I recommend a book written by Bishop Fulton Sheen called The Seven Capital Sins. The book is a compilation of talks he gave on each of the seven deadly sins.

 

[Joysong]

Dear Saoirse,

While you are addressing the capital sins, can I suggest you tuck away for future awareness and study, that there are also “spiritual” capital sins. These are discussed by Doctor of the Church, St. John of the Cross in detail here.

For now, I think you are trying to understand the carnal nature of these sins, which could be considered the imbedded “roots” in one’s nature that inclines them to specific manifestations of actual sins. Selfishness and greed (innate human tendencies from the moment of birth) could be manifested in many types of sins, such as theft, dishonesty in merchandising, failure to provide for the needs of the Church and/or family, unjust and excessive accumulation of the world’s goods, coveting another’s posessions, etc.

These vices are deadly, because if they are not mortified and brought under grace, they can ultimately cause one’s loss of salvation. For an extreme example, gluttony and greed caused Esau to give up his birth right which he sold to Jacob in order to satisfy his momentary appetite for porridge.

We never know when a root sin will cause us to tip over the edge and forsake our eternal birth right bestowed on us at baptism. These inclinations are referred to by St. Paul as “concupiscence” and none are free due to the fall of our first parents. We need to struggle constantly against them.

Good question, and I think you will have a lot of wise answers.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Pride = inordinate love of self (i.e vanity; i.e. “fat head”)
Yes, you should be proud of the things you do, but you should not let it get to your head. You do not want to over inflate your ego. The remedy to the sin of pride is humility. Give credit were credit is do. Yes, I made the winning touchdown and it felt really good! I did an awesome job, BUT I couldn’t of done it if it wasn’t for the hard work and practices that coach made us do is an example of giving credit where credit is do.

Envy = It is my understanding that there is “spiritual” envy and “material” envy. “Material” envy is resentment that other have things that you don’t i.e. money; cars; talents; jobs; etc.

“Spiritual” Envy is having resentment that others are moving up the “holiness ladder.” Instead of being “happy” for them at where they are at, you wish they were at your level or lower. In other words you wish that they fall off the “holiness ladder” or at least come down a few ruins to be where you are at.

It is my understanding that both types of Envy are bad, but “Spiritual” Envy is the worst of the two. The remedy to Envy is kindness, meekness, and being “happy” for others.

You may have had a little bit of envy (i.e. I wish I had that kind of faith) to kick start you into the RCIA program. I don’t know…it hard to judge. I think everyone has a little bit of envy every once in while; sometimes it’s what motivates you to do things.

Now that you have been kicked started, the question is why do you remain, why are you going on: Do I want to better myself? Am I doing this for me? Am I doing this so I can have a better relationship with God? I’m a doing this so I can have a deeper understanding of God and therefore can have a deeper faith? We all should seek to self-improvement to better ourselves, but it is my opinion that it should be done because it will really better ourselves. I’m doing this because I want it for me, because I think it will really make me a healthy person; I’m doing this because this is what God is calling me to do.

The flip of this would be: Am I doing this so I can be like “John Doe”? Am I’m doing this so I can be like “Jane Doe”? Am I doing this so I will be on the same level as “John Doe”? Am I doing this so I will surpass “Jane Doe”? —If you put yourself into a competition with “John or Jane Doe” and always compare yourself to them, then I would say that it is the deadly sin of envy.

**Anger **= You are right, you can’t pin up your feelings. It’s okay to be angry, the question is how do you handle the anger? How do you react? Do you rant and rave and carry on and on and on? Do you swear and curse and carrying on for a long period of time? Do you desire “revenge”? Do you desire to “hurt” the other person or see them “suffer”? After you are “angry” do you do something to JUST to “hurt” or “upset” the other person?

What would be a “healthy” expression of anger? I can tell you from experience its not good to rant and rave on and on and on. Sure it may help you feel better, but it doesn’t help the people around you. I’m working on it. However, I’ve found that one of the better ways to handle my anger to walk away, grab a piece of paper and pen and just start writing it all out. I’m getting it all out, without “hurting” the people around me. I also then can reflex on what is really going on.

Sometimes I find that even though hubby words may of set me off, that is not what is really bothering me. I then can maybe work at the real issue at hand. Which 80% of the time is ME! I mean there are times where hubby has said “xyz” and it just set me off, but when I look back on it, I find out that it wasn’t hubby, or what he said that was the “real problem” The “real problem” was me… I had been upset and angry with myself because I didn’t get “abc” done, and just used what hubby said as the excuse.

As for sin especially “Mortal” Sin 3 things are needed.

1. Full Knowledge that it is a sin
2. Grave Matter- that the action itself is a sin (i.e. lust)
3. Willful consent- You willfully did it even though you knew it was wrong.

I think that it natural to have a “reaction” to something or someone without willful consent. However, once you become conscience of the reaction and still carry on then you have committed a sin. This is because at that point you have willful consent.

 

[awalt]

These 7 deadly sins are in fact the root of sins. For example, Pride manifests itself in taking advantage of someone for example, cutting them off in your car, etc. They are called deadly because they can manifest in small venial sins to begin with, but if the person is unaware they can grow into mortal deadly sins.

I find the 7 deadly sins a wonderful thing to meditate on in my examination of conscience before confession - they are lot more specific in things I could be doing wrong, and to find for example my behavior really wasn’t very good because of prideful behavior. Sometimes just thinking about the 10 commandments I don’t realize the bad direction my life may be going!

 

[puzzleannie]

Dear Saoirse,

While you are addressing the capital sins, can I suggest you tuck away for future awareness and study, that there are also “spiritual” capital sins. These are discussed by Doctor of the Church, St. John of the Cross in detail here.

.

this link deserves to be a sticky on the spirituality forum, mods take note, as a lot of us right here on this forum fall into some of these traps

 

[Mintaka]

The thing is, evil can’t exist on its own. Good can, because good is creative (and God is all and only good, of course).

Evil is just a perverted sort of good. (Pretty far perverted, in some cases…)

So yes, all the sins are distortions of legitimate desires, needs, and actions. That’s what makes them powerful. If we can conquer our sins, we win back what was meant to serve God and help us.

 

[BlazingBolt]

Pride- basically we just need to be aware that we are nothing with out God, that our abilities and everything we have are from him. We should always be thankful to God when we accomplish something. There is nothing wrong in being proud of an accomplishment but the sin is to give yourself complete credit for it kind of how TO (a football player) doesn’t acknowledge his team mates have a big part of why he is able to score a TD.

Envy- What you describe is not really envy. You are not resentful and you don’t want to take away anything. Envy is like when a kid see’s another kid with something and whines “It’s not fair that he has that and I don’t”. You simply see something good in those who have faith and also want to have that faith. Striving to be like Jesus or the Saints does not qualify as envy.

Anger- I struggle with this one as I have trouble seeing the positive in being angry. I am not an angry person and don’t have much of a temper. Anger leads to revenge which is always wrong. It is OK to be angry, but you can’t let it control you, you can’t feed it. Don’t deny it, but I say you just observe it and acknowledge it and allow it to pass. I am not sure about what is a healthy way to express anger. God’s anger is not really anger at all, it is justice.

Lust- Unless you are actively participating with your will and consent you are not sinning. Having a dream is absolutely not a sin. However how you think can be a habit and by not engaging in lustful thought you will gradually have less and less of these uncontrolled thoughts. You should also be aware of what in your environment might be causing this to be a problem.

Like was said these are sort of the roots that lead to sin. By embracing any of these you put your soul in great peril but by understanding them and where they lead we can avoid them early as they generally start off small. I would also add the warning to beware of scrupulosity ( newadvent.org/cathen/13640a.htm ) especially regarding lust. It is not healthy.

 

[Joysong]

puzzleannie:

this link deserves to be a sticky on the spirituality forum, mods take note, as a lot of us right here on this forum fall into some of these traps

While the link dealt with the first capital sin of Pride, if you click the bottom of the page to “next section” it will take you to each of the other “spiritual” capital sins. I forgot to mention that, in case the reader thought the link referred only to Pride. It is pretty good reading, but I love the Carmelite saints and am slightly prejudiced.

 

[Saoirse]

I am enjoying reading these replies

I just am not sure that I am completely understanding them, so in time I will respond more thoughtfully. I need to sit with them first… I guess I am just overwhelmed, because not only am I needing to examine my conscience for the past nineteen years, I am also aware that my conscience is malformed - and to top it off I am confused as to what is sin and what is not, so I am looking at almost everything I’ve ever done… I mean, how do I remember what mortal sins I may have committed as a four-year old or younger?

Was it a mortal sin to worship the Pagan gods when I honestly believed in them and was merely practicing what I believed by doing so? I understand it would be a mortal sin now, and I feel guilty for my past lack of understanding in my seeking - but since I honestly didn’t know, then it’s not a sin, right?

but by that reasoning I could justify everything I’ve ever done, as well, because I’ve never been properly informed as to the difference between right and wrong before this year. With perhaps the exception of lying to my parents when I was small, which I knew was wrong and did anyways but would never have labelled as a sin when I was small enough to try it.

and does it then become a sin if I then continued to practice as a Pagan and attempted to ignore the doubts that surfaced as I did so? I mean, at the time I figured that it was just me being crazy - I was absolutely convinced that the goddess I prayed to was real and did not dare disrespect her by even considering a God who would not accept her as such… it wasn’t until that God wouldn’t go away that I realized I had to figure out what it was He was offering me, which was Truth(the one thing I had already given up on finding).

sorry, don’t mean to write so much… it’s how I process. please be patient with me, as you have been thus far .

love,
Saoirse

 

[baltobetsy]

I mean, how do I remember what mortal sins I may have committed as a four-year old or younger?

Was it a mortal sin to worship the Pagan gods when I honestly believed in them and was merely practicing what I believed by doing so? I understand it would be a mortal sin now, and I feel guilty for my past lack of understanding in my seeking - but since I honestly didn’t know, then it’s not a sin, right?

but by that reasoning I could justify everything I’ve ever done, as well, because I’ve never been properly informed as to the difference between right and wrong before this year. With perhaps the exception of lying to my parents when I was small, which I knew was wrong and did anyways but would never have labelled as a sin when I was small enough to try it.

It is generally believed that one reaches the age of reason, and therefore the ability to commit mortal sin, around age 7. Unless you were a very precocious 4-year-old, I would not worry about anything that happened before age 7 or so.

While worshiping Pagan gods is objectively wrong, because you honestly did not know it was wrong and in fact, thought you were doing a good act, it was not sinful for you at the time. You understand correctly that if you were to return to Pagan worship now that you know the truth, it would indeed be mortally sinful. But as long as you were absolutely convinced the goddess was real, you were doing the right thing by continuing to worship in that way.

As you examine your conscience, try to see yourself as God sees you. He knows your heart perfectly. He knows that you did not have a properly formed conscience. So you should look at your past in the same way. Perhaps make a list of the things you did that were unquestionably objectively wrong, then review each one from the standpoint of your understanding of right and wrong at the time. If, being brutally honest, you can say you thought you were doing the right thing, then the act was not sinful. It is a gift of God that now you see the objective wrong of what you have done, and are horrified and sorry. Do not let that feeling confuse you. Without full knowledge, bad acts are not mortal sins.

Have you been baptized, or will you be baptized at Easter? If you have not yet been baptized, your baptism at Easter will wash away all your sins, and you need not confess them. You need only form your conscience for the future.

On a totally different note, how do you pronounce your name and what does it mean?

Betsy

 

[Mommyof02green]

For Sin to be a “Mortal” Sin it needs 3 things when the sin was/is committed.
1. Grave Matter- The act itself is intrinsically evil and immoral: murder, rape, adultery, pagan worship etc. (Really things against the 10 commandments)
2. Full Knowledge: The person must KNOW what they are doing is wrong, evil, immoral.
3. Willful, Deliberate Consent: freely commits the act or plans on doing it. Being force to do something is not a mortal sin.
“Venial” Sins only meet one or two of the above conditions. Venial Sins are ‘minor’. Venial Sins are LESS serious then Mortal Sins.

Hopefully this will answer some of your questions about sin. You mention Pagan Worship. Well you would just take that and say okay 1) Is it Grave Matter? 2) Did I have full knowledge that it was Grave Matter at the time? 3) Did I Willfully consent to the act?

Your right it’s about examining your conscience! That is one of the hardest things to do. I struggle with it, because at times I don’t want to admit that I’m at fault or admit there are areas in my life that I need to work on, or that there are areas in my life that I need God to work in me.

I wish I could find a good Examination of Conscience questionnaire to share with you. However, to this date I haven’t been able to find one. (I’ve looked on and off in the past). One thing I could give you as an example between mortal and venial sin:

1. Falling to go to Mass on Sunday without just cause– Moral Sin
2. Falling to give thanks before a meal – Venial Sin

Also when the Venial Sins add up it makes easier for the person to do a “Mortal” Sin.
Example: “White Lies” are for the most part “Venial” if a person does these “white lies” a lot then it could make it easier for the person to tell a flat out “major” lie. (mortal sin).

That’s why most will suggest or say it’s a good idea to examine your conscience daily. At the end of the day before going to bed is generally a good time. If a person examines their conscience daily then they can determine what areas need fixing. They can ask God for forgiveness and the next day ask forgiveness from those that they may of hurt. Also making regular use of the confessional is good. The longer a person go without using the confessional the harder it is to get in there. In the confessional the person confesses all known and remembered mortal sins. Venial Sins maybe and are encouraged to be confessed. All mortal sins must be confessed. All forgotten sins are forgiven.

No one is expecting you to remember every wrong that you have committed since the age of 4. The best you can do is examined your conscience and examine all the things that you can honestly remember from your past to now. (I’m assuming that you were baptized as a kid/baby)

If you are in RCIA; then I’m also assuming that there will be a special night (time) set aside for you and others in your class to do your confessions. Therefore, remember you aren’t alone. There is a group of you that are coming to realize that it’s about me and God. You are not the only one that is worried about not remembering every wrong.

God knows if your heart is sincere. God will meet you where you are at and He’ll help you move on and up the ladder, at your pace. Also, there are times that even I fail to mention sin. I’ve been in the confessional, confessed my sins, and at some point later; I realize that I “failed” to mention “xyz”.

Now I may of failed to mention because at the time I ‘forgot’ or failed because at the time I was to embarrass to say it. Well I must confess the sin that I was embarrass to say. Also it’s good to confess the sin that I ‘forgot’ about.

In my opinion it is not the same as just “forgetting” the sin. In my opinion if forgot about the sin, then I would not remember it now. This forgetting, in my opinion, is more like absent-mindedness. It’s like looking in the refrigerator and seeing you need eggs. So you go to the store to buy eggs, however while at the store you get this and that, go to check out, leave and come home. Only to find you “forgot” the eggs. So what do you do you go back to the store and buy the eggs.

So if I have a moment of absent-mindedness about my sins then I just find my way back to the confessional. I tell Father that it has been “x” days/weeks since my last confession. I “forgot” to mention “xyz” during that confession, and “abc” are my sins since my last confession.

God Bless.

 

[Saoirse]

‘Saoirse’, spelt phonetically: ‘Seeeer-shaw’.

It’s Irish-Gaelic and means “Freedom”. I intend to keep it as my pen name, to go on writing that I don’t want to publish under my own name for whatever reason, and for use on-line.

Right now it looks like the Priest who is working with me is leaning towards conditionally baptising me for a few reasons; I’m not sure if he has completely decided what needs to be done yet, but I’m hoping to find out soon.

Obviously, with a conditional baptism, I’ll still need to try to remember the sins I’ve committed before it when I do my first confession. I’m also under the impression that I should think my past over thoroughly before we get to the evening of Reconciliation in the RCIA program… otherwise I’ll never remember everything when we get there…

love,
Saoirse

 

[BlazingBolt]

I am also aware that my conscience is malformed - and to top it off I am confused as to what is sin and what is not, so I am looking at almost everything I’ve ever done… I mean, how do I remember what mortal sins I may have committed as a four-year old or younger?

Was it a mortal sin to worship the Pagan gods when I honestly believed in them and was merely practicing what I believed by doing so? I understand it would be a mortal sin now, and I feel guilty for my past lack of understanding in my seeking - but since I honestly didn’t know, then it’s not a sin, right?

When you go to confession, confess everything you can remember that you think may have been a sin. It does not matter if it was technically Mortal or venial or if you were ignorant that it was sinful or not, confess it anway. Don’t worry about the technicallities, just get everyting off your conscience completely. The confessor will guide you if you need it and give advice ususally. Also don’t worry too much about trying to remember everything, as long as your not intentionally leaving stuff out every sin will be forgiven whether you remebered to confess it or not. I do find it helpful to write stuff down before going to confession but it is not neccessary. The most important thing is that you are repentent of your sins and desire to turn towards God, over time as you grow in faith through grace your conscience will become more well formed.

God Bless

 

[Mommyof02green]

I’m also under the impression that I should think my past over thoroughly before we get to the evening of Reconciliation in the RCIA program… otherwise I’ll never remember everything when we get there…

love,
Saoirse

Yep, you should take time to be reflex on what you may of done or failed to to before going to the confessional.

However, don’t worry so much if you “forget” something while in there. We all “forget” things time to time.

Like BlazingBlots advice the best:

When you go to confession, confess everything you can remember that you think may have been a sin. It does not matter if it was technically Mortal or venial or if you were ignorant that it was sinful or not, confess it anway. Don’t worry about the technicallities, just get everyting off your conscience completely. The confessor will guide you if you need it and give advice ususally. Also don’t worry too much about trying to remember everything, as long as your not intentionally leaving stuff out every sin will be forgiven whether you remebered to confess it or not. I do find it helpful to write stuff down before going to confession but it is not neccessary. The most important thing is that you are repentent of your sins and desire to turn towards God, over time as you grow in faith through grace your conscience will become more well formed.

My hubby sometimes writes things down and brings it into the confessional with him. It’s okay to bring things in to help!

 

[mommyof4]

Dear Saoirse,

While you are addressing the capital sins, can I suggest you tuck away for future awareness and study, that there are also “spiritual” capital sins. These are discussed by Doctor of the Church, St. John of the Cross in detail here.
.

That is a great link! Thank you for sharing!