The Seven Heavens and the M Theory

[farpinho]

Random Blabber: Just something that I thought, probably just random, maybe, maybe not, who knows… maybe this is just silliness of me

The “M” Theory admits (actually the equations need) the existence of 11 dimensions (10 space-dimensions + 1 time dimension). We are currently “trapped” in a 4 dimensional world (3 space dimensions + 1 time dimension = 4 dimensions)

11 dimensions - 4 dimensions = 7 dimensions (1 to each heaven) = 7 heavens

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Random Blabber: Just something that I thought, probably just random, maybe, maybe not, who knows… maybe this is just silliness of me

The “M” Theory admits (actually the equations need) the existence of 11 dimensions (10 space-dimensions + 1 time dimension). We are currently “trapped” in a 4 dimensional world (3 space dimensions + 1 time dimension = 4 dimensions)

11 dimensions - 4 dimensions = 7 dimensions (1 to each heaven) = 7 heavens

Well, speculative science fiction is inocuous enough compared to other hobbies. Just remember we live in a real universe. There is only one "heaven " in our real universe - all that exists beyond the earth. But a real Heaven exists, whether it is a real " place " in the same sense that the universe is a real place is a question we can’t answer. Perhaps we more correctly refer to it as a " state of being " in which God, his angels, and the saints exist.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Well, speculative science fiction is inocuous enough compared to other hobbies. Just remember we live in a real universe. There is only one "heaven " in our real universe - all that exists beyond the earth. But a real Heaven exists, whether it is a real " place " in the same sense that the universe is a real place is a question we can’t answer. Perhaps we more correctly refer to it as a " state of being " in which God, his angels, and the saints exist.

There’s no reason I can see to place “real Heaven” outside the universe, as if the universe has a boundary someplace. Universe is one - all that is. If there are more dimensions, they are part of the universe also. Jesus said the Kingdom of God is among us. They are right here.

 

[JDaniel]

Random Blabber: Just something that I thought, probably just random, maybe, maybe not, who knows… maybe this is just silliness of me

The “M” Theory admits (actually the equations need) the existence of 11 dimensions (10 space-dimensions + 1 time dimension). We are currently “trapped” in a 4 dimensional world (3 space dimensions + 1 time dimension = 4 dimensions)

11 dimensions - 4 dimensions = 7 dimensions (1 to each heaven) = 7 heavens

Farpinho:

Our early Church Fathers debated the notion of “levels” of Heaven. As I recall, St. Thomas thought there were only three levels of Heaven, but others thought there were as many as twelve.

The only problem I have with it is the inclusion of “time” as a dimension - despite modern physics.

God bless,
jd

 

[Andre1000]

…They are right here.

When a angel is only one meter away form us in the 11st dimension, we couldn’t see him at all, according to M-Theory.

I want to point out that in M-Theory 6 dimensions are so small, that heaven could not fit in. Only the first, second, third, fourth and 11st are extended.

 

[farpinho]

Farpinho:

Our early Church Fathers debated the notion of “levels” of Heaven. As I recall, St. Thomas thought there were only three levels of Heaven, but others thought there were as many as twelve.

The only problem I have with it is the inclusion of “time” as a dimension - despite modern physics.

God bless,
jd

Why? St. Augustine of Hippo said that “God created time”.

 

[GEddie]

The “universe” is by definition all that is. So speaking of something outside it is problematic.

However, when we say the universe, most of us mean the “known” universe; ie, outer space; the realm we can observe with 2D eyes in 3D heads, and 3D hands to build 3D science equipment. There is no reason that that is all there is.

There could easily be places and beings, and “bodies” outside the KNOWN universe. Our LORD went somewhere. He’s not swimming through interstellar space.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Julia_Mae]

Farpinho:

Our early Church Fathers debated the notion of “levels” of Heaven. As I recall, St. Thomas thought there were only three levels of Heaven, but others thought there were as many as twelve.

The only problem I have with it is the inclusion of “time” as a dimension - despite modern physics.

God bless,
jd

Time can apply to a limited number of dimensions, and we can think of it as just the way we measure change in the physical “portion” of the universe.

When a angel is only one meter away form us in the 11st dimension, we couldn’t see him at all, according to M-Theory.

I want to point out that in M-Theory 6 dimensions are so small, that heaven could not fit in. Only the first, second, third, fourth and 11st are extended.

Well, that angel, or your Aunt Martha, is not necessarily confined to a set of dimensions. Neither are we. At least, neither is our consciousness. As Catholics, we know that matter in time/space is affected, sometimes dramatically, by something - God is a useful concept here - we cannot easily perceive with our physical senses.

 

[GEddie]

Time can be thought of as a dimension, that physical systems and bodies are driven along by entropy, in the same way that physical bodies are driven or constrained in the third dimension by gravity.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Linusthe2nd]

There’s no reason I can see to place “real Heaven” outside the universe, as if the universe has a boundary someplace. Universe is one - all that is. If there are more dimensions, they are part of the universe also. Jesus said the Kingdom of God is among us. They are right here.

The universe is created by God for natural beings. God existed before the universe. Where? That is why I said that Heaven may be a state of being. I do not think it needs to be a " place " as commenly understood. On the other hand we are told there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth. So what does all this mean? " We will certainly know after this life but not before.

 

[GEddie]

The universe is created by God for natural beings. God existed before the universe. Where? That is why I said that Heaven may be a state of being. I do not think it needs to be a " place " as commenly understood. On the other hand we are told there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth. So what does all this mean? " We will certainly know after this life but not before.

It has to be a place, in the sense that there are, or will be BODIES there; and a body needs somewhere to wiggle his/her limbs around in.

ICXC NIKA

 

[JDaniel]

Why? St. Augustine of Hippo said that “God created time”.

St. Augustine didn’t know what “time” was and admitted that. “What then is time?” St. Augustine asks, and he answers, “If no one asks me, I know; if I want to explain
it to a questioner, I do not know.” - Confessions, Bk. XI, ch. 14.

But of course: God created everything. Time is a correlate of motion. And, even if there were no humans to number time, time would still exist, imperfectly, outside of the mind as numerability of prior and posterior. The prior and the posterior are numerable even without humans doing so. (Summa contra Gentiles, Bk. II, ch. 22.) But, it is an “imperfect” reality, as only a mind can truly number the numerable.

Is this understandable?

God bless,
jd

 

[JDaniel]

Time can apply to a limited number of dimensions, and we can think of it as just the way we measure change in the physical “portion” of the universe.

Julia Mae:

I’m sorry, I don’t understand this. I understand the phrase after the comma, but I am now speaking of that part of the sentence before the comma.

God bless,
jd

 

[Julia_Mae]

It has to be a place, in the sense that there are, or will be BODIES there; and a body needs somewhere to wiggle his/her limbs around in.

ICXC NIKA

However, the body won’t necessarily be a physical entity in a non-physical state. That is, the “environment” will control the form.

 

[JDaniel]

Time can be thought of as a dimension, that physical systems and bodies are driven along by entropy, in the same way that physical bodies are driven or constrained in the third dimension by gravity.

ICXC NIKA

GEddie:

“Entropy” is a kind of “motion.”

God bless,
jd

 

[JDaniel]

The universe is created by God for natural beings. God existed before the universe. Where? That is why I said that Heaven may be a state of being. I do not think it needs to be a " place " as commenly understood. On the other hand we are told there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth. So what does all this mean? " We will certainly know after this life but not before.

Good points.

God bless,
jd

 

[JDaniel]

It has to be a place, in the sense that there are, or will be BODIES there; and a body needs somewhere to wiggle his/her limbs around in.

ICXC NIKA

GEddie:

Place is best defined as the the “innermost immobile surface of a surrounding body.” (Physics, Bk. IV, ch. 5, 212a, 20-21.) To regard it in the sense you are using it is to universalize it. But, that does not take anything away from your concept of it, in my opinion. Because, where ever a wiggle starts, wiggles, or ends up, is a place!

God bless,
jd

 

[GEddie]

GEddie:

Place is best defined as the the “innermost immobile surface of a surrounding body.” (Physics, Bk. IV, ch. 5, 212a, 20-21.) To regard it in the sense you are using it is to universalize it. But, that does not take anything away from your concept of it, in my opinion. Because, where ever a wiggle starts, wiggles, or ends up, is a place!

God bless,
jd

I am a non philosopher and so your source means zero to me.

ISTM that places can exist without immovable surfaces, although a body may not be able to remain in such a location.

A place can be determined by mathematical coordinates, Cartesian, cylindrical, spherical, take your pick

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

However, the body won’t necessarily be a physical entity in a non-physical state. That is, the “environment” will control the form.

Bodies are by definition physical. A non-physical body is an oxymoron.

The environment does not control the form, the internal nature of the body does.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

GEddie:

“Entropy” is a kind of “motion.”

God bless,
jd

Indeed it is, in the Aquinian sense of change, although not movement in the human or mechanical sense.

And that may be why we have a sense of time “passing”. We certainly don’t move with it. What we sense is entropic change in our heads/bodies; even clocks are driven by entropic change.

ICXC NIKA