The Seven Hills

  • Thread starter Thread starter Irishmen10
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I

Irishmen10

Guest
Rome is known as the city of “Seven Hills”. I personally have never been to Rome and don’t know what these “hills” look like or the locations of them. I was talking with a friend a few days ago and he mentioned to me that Rome (the city of seven hills) was the prophesy of John in Revelation 17:9.
9 'This calls for shrewdness. The seven heads are the seven hills, on which the woman is sitting.

Obviously we need to look at the entire context first to fully understand the importance of this statement.

Revelation 17: 4-14
4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet and glittered with gold and jewels and pearls, and she was holding a gold winecup filled with the disgusting filth of her prostitution;
5 on her forehead was written a name, a cryptic name: ‘Babylon the Great, the mother of all the prostitutes and all the filthy practices on the earth.’
6 I saw that she was drunk, drunk with the blood of the saints, and the blood of the martyrs of Jesus; and when I saw her, I was completely mystified.
7 The angel said to me, 'Do you not understand? I will tell you the meaning of this woman, and of the beast she is riding, with the seven heads and the ten horns.
8 'The beast you have seen was once alive and is alive no longer; it is yet to come up from the Abyss, but only to go to its destruction. And the people of the world, whose names have not been written since the beginning of the world in the book of life, will be astonished when they see how the beast was once alive and is alive no longer, and is still to come.
9 'This calls for shrewdness. The seven heads are the seven hills, on which the woman is sitting.
10 The seven heads are also seven emperors. Five of them have already gone, one is here now, and one is yet to come; once here, he must stay for a short while.
11 The beast, who was alive and is alive no longer, is at the same time the eighth and one of the seven, and he is going to his destruction.
12 ‘The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet been given their royal power but will have royal authority only for a single hour and in association with the beast.
13 They are all of one mind in putting their strength and their powers at the beast’s disposal,
14 and they will go to war against the Lamb; but because the Lamb is Lord of lords and King of kings, he will defeat them, he and his followers, the called, the chosen, the trustworthy.’

And so, my friend claims that because the Catholic Church is the Church of Rome and Rome is the city of Seven Hills, that the Catholic Church is the women described in the revelation. I would like to hear the point of view of Catholics and non-Catholics alike in their explanation of this passage. I myself am not saying that my friend is right or wrong, but I have contemplated this theory for a while and am wondering if there are any answers out there.

God Bless!
 
If you don’t live in America, you will find out that anti-Catholics have alot of fear about the Church, learn about it with such kind of language, that it shocks them, and they cannot deal with finding out the facts.

Rome is built on the 7 hills. So is Athens, Greece and Jerusalem, Israel. The Vatican is not on the 7 hills and is on the other side of the river.
 
List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills

From Wikipedia

City of Seven Hills usually refers to Rome. There are 51 cities on this list. There are many other cities claimed to be built on seven hills or fewer than seven.

Albany, New York
Amman, Jordan, Originally called Philadelphia, Amman spread over seven hills like Rome, Amman now covers at least nineteen hills. The highest hill is Citadel Hill/Jabal el Qala,
Asunción, Paraguay, There are several small hills and slightly elevated areas throughout the city, including Cabará, Clavel, Tarumá, Cachinga, and Tacumbú, among others.
Athens, Greece. The historical seven hills of Athens are Acropolis, Areopagus, Lofos Filopappou, Lofos Nymfon, Pnyx, Mount Lycabettus, and Tourkovounia.
Bamberg, Bavaria, Germany, The seven hills of Bamberg are; Cathedral Hill, Michaelsberg, Kaulberg/Obere Pfarre, Stefansberg, Jakobsberg, Altenburger Hill, and Abtsberg.
Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain said to be built on Mont Tàber, La Rovira, El Coll, El Carmel, La Peira, El Putxet and Montjuïc
Bath, England
Bergen, Norway (see Seven Mountains, Bergen)
Brussels, Belgium, said to be built on St.Michielsberg, Koudenberg, Warmoesberg, Kruidtuin, Kunstberg, Zavel and St.Pietersberg
Budapest, Hungary
Cagliari, Sardinia
Ceuta, Spain
Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
Dunedin, New Zealand
Edinburgh, Scotland
Gorzów, Poland
Guaranda, Ecuador
Iaşi, Romania (see Seven hills of Iaşi)
Istanbul, Turkey (see Seven hills of Istanbul)
Jerusalem, Israel (see Seven hills of Jerusalem) [1], the northern summit (hill) is called Scopus [Hill One], The middle summit (hill) was called Nob [Hill Two], The highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the “Mount of Corruption” or “Mount of Offence” [Hill Three] (II Kings 23:13), on the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south “Mount Zion” [Hill Four] (the original “Mount Zion” and not the later southwest hill that was later called by that name), the “Ophel Mount” [Hill Five], to the north of that the “Rock” around which “Fort Antonia” was built [Hill Six], and the southwest hill itself [Hill Seven] that finally became known in the time of Simon the Hasmonean as the new “Mount Zion.”
Kampala, Uganda built on Mengo, Lubaga, Namirembe, Old Kampala, Kibuli, Nakasero and Makerere
Kiev, Ukraine Borichev, Shchekovitsa, Starokievska and Khorevitsa.[2]
Lisbon, Portugal
Los Angeles, California, United States[citation needed]
Lynchburg, Virginia, United States
Lviv, Ukraine
Macau
Mecca, Saudi Arabia
Melbourne, Australia
Moscow, Russia (See Seven hills of Moscow)
Nevada City, California, United States, built on Piety, Lost, Prospect, Aristocracy, Boulder, Nabob, and Buckeye Hills
Nijmegen, Netherlands
Nixa, Missouri, United States
Plovdiv, Bulgaria
Prague, Czech Republic, said to be built on seven or nine hills: Hradčany, Vítkov, (Opyš), Větrov, Skalka, (Emauzy), Vyšehrad, Karlov and Petřín
Providence, Rhode Island, built on Christian Hill, College Hill, Constitution Hill, Federal Hill, Smith Hill, Tockwotten Hill, and Weybosset Hill.
Pula, Croatia
Richmond, Virginia, United States, built on numerous hills and escarpments to include Union Hill, Church Hill, Council Hill, Shockoe Hill, Gambles Hill, Navy Hill and Oregon Hill.
Rome, Georgia, United States
Rome, Italy (see Seven hills of Rome)
Saint-Étienne, France
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States
San Diego, California, United States
San Francisco, California, United States (see List of hills in San Francisco, California)
Seattle, Washington, United States (see Seven hills of Seattle)
Sheffield, England
Somerville, Massachusetts, United States, built on Clarendon Hill, College Hill, Spring Hill, Winter Hill, Central Hill, Plowed Hill, Cobble Hill.
Staten Island, New York, United States - Fort Hill, Ward Hill, Fox Hill, Grymes Hill, Emerson Hill, Todt Hill, and Richmond Hill.
Tallahassee, Florida, United States
Tehran, Iran
Thiruvananthapuram, India
Tirumala, India
Torquay, England
Turku, Finland
Worcester, Massachusetts, United States, built on Airport Hill, Bancroft Hill, Belmont Hill, Grafton Hill, Green Hill, Pakachoag Hill, and Vernon Hill.
Yonkers, New York, United States
Zevenbergen, Netherlands
 
If you don’t live in America, you will find out that anti-Catholics have alot of fear about the Church, learn about it with such kind of language, that it shocks them, and they cannot deal with finding out the facts.

Rome is built on the 7 hills. So is Athens, Greece and Jerusalem, Israel. The Vatican is not on the 7 hills and is on the other side of the river.
I also understand that Mecca is built on Seven hills also. I always thought that the islamic religion was the women…but that is of course my interpretation alone.
 
And so, my friend claims that because the Catholic Church is the Church of Rome and Rome is the city of Seven Hills, that the Catholic Church is the women described in the revelation. I would like to hear the point of view of Catholics and non-Catholics alike in their explanation of this passage. I myself am not saying that my friend is right or wrong, but I have contemplated this theory for a while and am wondering if there are any answers out there.

God Bless!
God bless you, too.

The emperors and kings described in the passage do not connote a religion, but rather a vast political system that persecutes the religion.

It is worth noting that the woman has a name written on her forehead ‘Babylon the Great, the mother of all the prostitutes and all the filthy practices on the earth.’ St. Peter, while in Rome under persecution from the Roman government, used the name Babylon as a code-name for pagan Rome (which the early Church saw as full of perversion and cruelty):
The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.
  • 1 Peter 5:13
Paul
 
I’m curious if your friend is willing to admit that Babylon was code for Rome? If so, then he should have no problem with agreeing that St Peter was in Rome when he wrote his letter and died there. And as such the Church that Christ promised to build on Peter is located in Rome.
 
I’m curious if your friend is willing to admit that Babylon was code for Rome? If so, then he should have no problem with agreeing that St Peter was in Rome when he wrote his letter and died there. And as such the Church that Christ promised to build on Peter is located in Rome.
He infact does believe that Babylon is code for Rome, but he’s also LDS, so he does not believe that Christ promised to build His church on Peter. It’s like comparing apples to oranges i know, but this is his reasoning behind it.
 
To answer your question, Revelation describes the first century Rome, and the woman is a city, not a church. It is a silly and desperate attempt to undermine the authority of Christ’s Church so they can justify their refusal to obey the instructions of Christ. The whole book tells the story of the first century and their tribulations. There are some prophesies in the book, but we don’t need to assume the whole book is prophesy.
 
He infact does believe that Babylon is code for Rome, but he’s also LDS, so he does not believe that Christ promised to build His church on Peter. It’s like comparing apples to oranges i know, but this is his reasoning behind it.
How in the world does he twist Scripture to deny that Jesus said He would build His Church on Kepha (Peter)?
 
How in the world does he twist Scripture to deny that Jesus said He would build His Church on Kepha (Peter)?
It’s easy when you’ve been raised your whole life to believe it. And since you’re young, you are taught that Jesus is the Rock and the foundation that the church is built on. He would also reference 1 Cor 3:11
 
It’s easy when you’ve been raised your whole life to believe it. And since you’re young, you are taught that Jesus is the Rock and the foundation that the church is built on. He would also reference 1 Cor 3:11
Of course it is true that Jesus is God and the Rock of our salvation. Peter, as Christ’s representitive on earth was called Kepha which means “a stone” (a liitle rock). Since Peter is a mere human he cannot be equal to Jesus, which is why he is cast as a stone - a small rock - while Jesus is the big rock. The little rock is the representitive of the Big Rock.

The church - the house of God - is built upon Rock (Jesus). But it is also
…built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; -Ephesians 2:20
Foundations in those days were built of stone. :hmmm:

God love you,
Paul
 
Jesus is the living temple…but as human beings, we need a place of worship. And as such, needing a place to worship is no different than those cults who label other Christians using the Sacred Word of God.

Perversion resides in the deep hearts of men, not on 7 hills.
 
A signature phrase attached to the woman riding the beast is " on her hands is all the blood ever shed on earth". Jesus accused the leading men of Jerusalem:
" That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.
and again ST John speaking of her directly
REV 18: 24And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Remember?

[

](Douay-Rheims Bible, Genesis Chapter 4)
When Abel’s blood was shed his blood was all the blood ever shed on earth. So, even though Cain alone spilled the blood, the blood is also on her hands.

Even though the Jewish leaders spilled Jesus’ blood, His blood is also on her hands.

Even though martyrs are killed by those who prefer worldly power over God the blood they spill is also on her hands.

At the time Revelation was written the city of Rome was shedding the blood of those who love God.

At this time the culture of death is shedding the blood that cries out to God for Justice.

We live in Babylon.
 
I always found the answer to this issue in geography instead of theology. It’s quite simple really - there are no seven hills.

Ancient Rome was founded on seven hills, as legend goes, by two brothers. These seven hills are Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, and Viminal Hill. The Vatican does not sit on any of these hills and is not found within the walls of ancient Rome. It is surrounded by Rome today, but what we now call the Vatican is actually a couple of miles away from ancient Rome. In addition, modern Rome has expanded so much that it now includes multiple dozen hills and one might say is no longer the city on seven hills.

On top of all this, Vatican city sits atop Vatican hill. They’re a joint package. No matter how you draw the borders or how creative you try to get, if you include the Vatican as part of Rome, you also automatically include Vatican hill - an 8th hill. And again, it would no longer be a city on seven hills.
 
Is it just coincidence that there are seven continents that rise up out of the sea?
 
I’m curious if your friend is willing to admit that Babylon was code for Rome? If so, then he should have no problem with agreeing that St Peter was in Rome when he wrote his letter and died there. And as such the Church that Christ promised to build on Peter is located in Rome.
Not to answer for the friend…but 1st and 2nd Peter were not written by Peter…like the pastoral letters and some of the apocryphal gospels and letters…the author used his name to lend “authority” to it…a common practice.

For a reference…wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_wrote_1_and_2_peter

Conservative believers however do attribute the author to Peter. So you may wish to consult with your faith communities stance on the matter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top