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Montie_Claunch
Guest
Does anyone know who the kings are who were referred to in Revalation 17? Thanks and God bless.
Revelation 17(KJV)
Revelation 17(KJV)
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Verbum
Guest
Hi Montie,
The seven hills are the seven hills of Rome and the seven kings are five Roman emperors of the past + Nero (presently reigning) and one to come. I have this from the original edition of the Bible de Jérusalem. It also adds that the use of the number 7 is probably used to signify the totality and may simply mean the end of the Roman empire. If you read on, you will read of “Babylon”, which is the symbol for Rome.
The running theme in Revelation is that good will overcome evil. Rome, the persecutor, will eventually disappear as a power.
Verbum
The seven hills are the seven hills of Rome and the seven kings are five Roman emperors of the past + Nero (presently reigning) and one to come. I have this from the original edition of the Bible de Jérusalem. It also adds that the use of the number 7 is probably used to signify the totality and may simply mean the end of the Roman empire. If you read on, you will read of “Babylon”, which is the symbol for Rome.
The running theme in Revelation is that good will overcome evil. Rome, the persecutor, will eventually disappear as a power.
Verbum
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DB_AND_ALI
Guest
Are you referring to THE VATICAN or to the government of Italy when you talk of Rome ??? Surely not the church ?!
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Todd_Easton
Guest
Haydock’s Catholic Bible commentary on Revelation 17:
Ver. 9. Seven mountains. We have already observed that ancient Rome stood upon seven mountains. The same cannot be said of modern Rome, as some of the hills are not inhabited. — The seven heads…are seven kings, or seven Roman emperors, who were particularly distinguished as the chief supporters of idolatry, and the most virulent persecutors of the Christian religion. Their names were Nero, Domitian, Severus, Decius, Valerian, Dioclesian and Antichrist. — Five of them are fallen or gone, viz. Nero, Domitian, Severus, Decius, Valerian, who supported the idolatrous empire for a time; one is, viz. Dioclesian, with whom the reign of idolatry falls; and the other is not yet come, that is, antichrist.
Ver. 9. Seven mountains. We have already observed that ancient Rome stood upon seven mountains. The same cannot be said of modern Rome, as some of the hills are not inhabited. — The seven heads…are seven kings, or seven Roman emperors, who were particularly distinguished as the chief supporters of idolatry, and the most virulent persecutors of the Christian religion. Their names were Nero, Domitian, Severus, Decius, Valerian, Dioclesian and Antichrist. — Five of them are fallen or gone, viz. Nero, Domitian, Severus, Decius, Valerian, who supported the idolatrous empire for a time; one is, viz. Dioclesian, with whom the reign of idolatry falls; and the other is not yet come, that is, antichrist.
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Verbum
Guest
Hi Montie,
Verbum
I am talking about the Roman empire. Boning up on history would be helpful, if you are studying Revelation.
Verbum
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Montie_Claunch
Guest
Whos the Antichrist? I don’t have any Roman Empire resourses so I don’t know who comes after Dioclesian.
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Todd_Easton
Guest
It is my understanding that the Antichrist is a man who will appear a few years before the end of this world who, through the devices of the devil, will work wonders and mislead many into believing that he is divine. His persecution of the Church to near extinction will prompt the Second Coming of Jesus Christ in power and glory, who will defeat the Antichrist and establish the world to come.
From the Glossary of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:ANTICHRIST: The “deceitful one” referred to in the New Testament, associated with the “mystery of iniquity” which will precede the second coming of Christ, through which people will be led astray from the truth to follow a false “messianism,” by which man glorifies himself and human achievement in place of God and his Messiah come in the flesh, in whom the kingdom will be fulfilled (675-677)
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Montie_Claunch
Guest
O so its not the Seventh person in a Roman Emperor line?
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spauline
Guest
Monty, there’s multiple layers of meaning possible. It just doesn’t have to be only Roman Emperors. Earlier Catholic Bibles, based on some testimony of ECFs, discern great kingdoms of sin spanning the whole of salvation history. Also, St. Hippolytus even suggests ages of sin across all of salvation history. For example, as St. Paul says in 2 Thess, “iniquity is already at work, mind you, provided that he who is restraining still restrains…”
Derived from this, the Dou. Rh. translation suggests the notion of the fallen nature of man in the beast, manifesting itself in great punctuations, so that the beast “was”, that is, prior to the Flood, the first “king”, the Fall, the near total worldwide wickedness of Noah’s day, “reigned” and dominated history. But beginning with the Flood, God began the process of the Redemption of humanity, and hence, the fall even starts to take a “back seat” to the Redemption, hence, the beast “is not”. But at the end of the world (and what would associatedly be the final age of sin, the “eighth”) humanity will have fallen away from the Gospel in an incurable manner, and hence, the fallen nature of man will once again “reign” in history, seeing as the Redemption (RE-creation of man), which will have been completed in seven “days”, will no longer be able “restrain” iniquity, and hence the beast “will be again”.
For fuller development on this, you might consider reading some articles i have on this, beginning with this one:
The Beast and Historicism
Blessings to you, Monty!
scott
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jimmy85
Guest
My bible says that the 7 kings are a symbolic number for the Roman emperors.
The 10 horns are the kings of the barbaric countrys allied to Rome, this ones will be the ones that will be the instruments of God to destroy Rome “Babylonia”, however those Barbarics tribes will keep being hostiles to the church.
verse 14, talks about Christ’s victory with his chosen ones.
Christ will have the victory, The belivers in Christ will have the victory if they are constant and keep their faith.
The victory could be, the whole evangelization of the known world with the church that was made with the blood of the Martyrs.
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puzzleannie
Guest
according to Michael Barbers excellent study on Revelation the 7 kings refer to successive empires or governments that ruled the known world from biblical times to the present (early Christian era being the present in this context), so that the last was the Roman Empire. Babylon, Egypt, Medes, Persians, Greeks etc.
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spauline
Guest
It can be this, but it’s probably even deeper, as I indicate in my essay. For Egypt is not the first time that sin reigns in humanity. Hence, in its broadest scope, it is most likely the “ages” of sin that span human history, from the fall until the end. In fact, as accordingly “five [had] fallen”, so more than one Early Father, including Augustine, distinguishes “five ages of the Old Law”:
I. From Adam to Noah (the Fall and Pre-Flood Corruption)
II. From Noah to Abraham (Tower of Babel)
III. From Abraham to Moses/David (Egypt)
IV. From David to the post-Exilic Restoration (the Intermediate Jewish Apostasy)
V. From the Restoration of Promised Land to Christ (Antiochus, the OT Antichrist)
“One is”:
VI. Pagan Rome
“The other has not yet come”:
VII. the Minor Apostasy (Our current age)
“The eighth, who was and is not”:
VIII. The Great Apostasy and NT Antichrist
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