The Seven Sisters

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Steadfast

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Of Liberal American Protestantism:
  1. The United Church of Christ (UCC), descended from the Congregationalists.
  2. The United Methodist Church (UMC)
  3. The Episcopal Church
  4. The Presbyterian Church (USA) (PCUSA)
  5. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA)
  6. The Reformed Church in America (RCA)
  7. The American Baptist Churches USA (ABC)
These then are the “Seven Sisters”, they are not in any particular order but I think it can be said that the most liberal is the UCC and the least liberal is the ELCA and the UMC seems to be moving left to right while the TEC seems to be drifting right to left.

They are not uniform in their heterodoxy, some of them are more heterodox than others and some are fairly moderate but continue to permit radical congregations.

They have varying opinions on homosexual ministers and homosexual marriage but uniformly refuse to say that homosexuality is, itself, sinful (though I have heard that the UMC may be moving on this).

They are all pro-choice on abortion and all ordain females to every office.

Their approaches to Scripture vary as well, usually from a sort of stock neo-orthodoxy to more radical revisionisms.

These are all my opinions and if they are wrong, I welcome correction.
 
I would want to study on this before I comment too much, but my gut inclination is to agree.

I wonder what the common denominator is on these (and it is NOT that they are Protestant).
 
Steadfast said:
Of Liberal American Protestantism:
  1. The United Church of Christ (UCC), descended from the Congregationalists.
  2. The United Methodist Church (UMC)
  3. The Episcopal Church
  4. The Presbyterian Church (USA) (PCUSA)
  5. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA)
  6. The Reformed Church in America (RCA)
  7. The American Baptist Churches USA (ABC)
These then are the “Seven Sisters”, they are not in any particular order but I think it can be said that the most liberal is the UCC and the least liberal is the ELCA and the UMC seems to be moving left to right while the TEC seems to be drifting right to left.

They are not uniform in their heterodoxy, some of them are more heterodox than others and some are fairly moderate but continue to permit radical congregations.

They have varying opinions on homosexual ministers and homosexual marriage but uniformly refuse to say that homosexuality is, itself, sinful (though I have heard that the UMC may be moving on this).

They are all pro-choice on abortion and all ordain females to every office.

Their approaches to Scripture vary as well, usually from a sort of stock neo-orthodoxy to more radical revisionisms.

These are all my opinions and if they are wrong, I welcome correction.
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elca.org/What-We-Believe/Social-Issues/Social-Statements/Abortion.aspx
Because we believe that God is the creator of life, the number of induced abortions is a source of deep concern to this church. We mourn the loss of life that God has created.[A] The strong Christian presumption is to preserve and protect life. Abortion ought to be an option only of last resort. Therefore, as a church we seek to reduce the need to turn to abortion as the answer to unintended pregnancies.**
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**
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Not a strong, forceful statement, is it?
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Jon
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Yeah, when I say “pro-choice” it is with the knowledge that it is just a hyphenated convenience and doesn’t really do justice to the nuances churches will pour into a discussion of it.

To me, and please forgive me if this offends, they look like they are wringing their hands and trying to appear “deeply troubled” when they are, in fact, more fearful of the judgment of the world than of God.
 
Steadfast said:
To me, and please forgive me if this offends, they look like they are wringing their hands and trying to appear “deeply troubled” when they are, in fact, more fearful of the judgment of the world than of God.
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(Bold emphasis mine)

This is an excellent observation, not only of these churches, but of people who call themselves “Christian” and then act and believe in a completely opposite way. What other people think is more important to these kinds of people and would do everything to avoid or acknowledge at all that in the end it’s what GOD says that matters.
 
I am glad it was a non-Catholic, non0Orthodox Christian that posted it.
 
bpbasilphx said:
Your point for this posting was…???
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I posted it to help some understand who might care to understand exactly who “the players” are in liberal Protestantism and to provide a basis for discussion of the same.

Note that I welcomed correction, it is my own thumbnail and would appreciate the observations of others.

It grew out of thinking about the church affiliation of our new President.
 
Steadfast said:
I posted it to help some understand who might care to understand exactly who “the players” are in liberal Protestantism and to provide a basis for discussion of the same.

Note that I welcomed correction, it is my own thumbnail and would appreciate the observations of others.

It grew out of thinking about the church affiliation of our new President.
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I don’t like to say what I did, but I thought all Lutherans knew how messed up the ECLA was on this one.

I think Triune Unity knows.
 
notsmart said:
Jon,

Dear Jon,

Why does the ELCA give their paid workers health care that covers abortion?
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Goodness knows. There are many things the ELCA is doing that I can’t explain. Perhaps Pastor Gary (gnuss) could, since I believe he is ELCA. My entire family remains ELCA, so I pray for it all the time.

Jon
 
Pacbox said:
This is an excellent observation, not only of these churches, but of people who call themselves “Christian” and then act and believe in a completely opposite way.
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“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, and walk out the door, and deny him with their life style. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.”
 
JonNC said:
Goodness knows. There are many things the ELCA is doing that I can’t explain. Perhaps Pastor Gary (gnuss) could, since I believe he is ELCA. My entire family remains ELCA, so I pray for it all the time.

Jon
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I will join you in that prayer intention.
 
JonNC said:
Goodness knows. There are many things the ELCA is doing that I can’t explain. Perhaps Pastor Gary (gnuss) could, since I believe he is ELCA. My entire family remains ELCA, so I pray for it all the time.
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Jon, et al.,

I wish I had an explanation. And I am not alone in the ELCA in believing that we have that wrong. Keep praying for us.
 
Pastor Gary,
How can it be changed? Is it something that the rank and file members can do? Was it done by a group of people who wanted to keep from offending?
 
gcnuss said:
Jon, et al.,

I wish I had an explanation. And I am not alone in the ELCA in believing that we have that wrong. Keep praying for us.
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Dear Pastor,
After I posted that, I wondered if I unfairly called you out. Hope you didn’t take it that way. Thanks for responding.

My dad was an LCA/ELCA pastor who, even 35 years ago, was concerned about the trend of the LCA/ELCA in areas such as this.
So, I know this is difficult for many ELCA clegy and laity. Dad said the ELCA was a “conservative” church with a liberal leadership. I have been out of the ELCA for almost 10 years, but I suspect it is moreso true today. My prayers will continue.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
Dear Pastor,
After I posted that, I wondered if I unfairly called you out. Hope you didn’t take it that way. Thanks for responding.

My dad was an LCA/ELCA pastor who, even 35 years ago, was concerned about the trend of the LCA/ELCA in areas such as this.
So, I know this is difficult for many ELCA clegy and laity. Dad said the ELCA was a “conservative” church with a liberal leadership. I have been out of the ELCA for almost 10 years, but I suspect it is moreso true today. My prayers will continue.

Jon
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You are correct. I am LCMS, however most ELCA Lutherans I know and most of the local congregations are actively prolife. One of the reasons that many ELCA people leave that synod and join ours is it’s liberal leadership which seems to be a little out of touch with it’s people.

I would hesitate to call them one of the leading causes of liberalism in the US. Especially since ths Catholic Church has signed the Joint Declaration with the ELCA.
 
Well, it signed with the LWF of which the ELCA is just the largest member.
 
Alix1912 said:
You are correct. I am LCMS, however most ELCA Lutherans I know and most of the local congregations are actively prolife. One of the reasons that many ELCA people leave that synod and join ours is it’s liberal leadership which seems to be a little out of touch with it’s people.

I would hesitate to call them one of the leading causes of liberalism in the US. Especially since ths Catholic Church has signed the Joint Declaration with the ELCA.
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And this is perhaps the biggest complaint I have about the LCMS. While the ELCA continues to march almost lockstep with the Episcopal Church in area of morals, it seems to take the lead in ecumenism with Rome (among Lutherans). On the other hand, the LCMS, which appears to be in a better position for dialogue with Rome, continues to appear reluctant to do so. While the JDDJ does not solve all of our differences with Rome on justification, I believe it is a good document, as far as it goes. The LCMS should sign on to it, with the obvious qualifications as to what it doesn’t do, just as Rome has done.

My point is, as Lutherans, we are a reformationist church, not a protestant church, and the LCMS seems way too comfortable being in schism with Rome.

Jon
 
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