The Sexual State. How a rolling revolution is destroying Lives

[Theo520]

I just think you’re downplaying the prevalence and seriousness of abuse

And I think you are exaggerating it.

Depending on how you survey it, every single child in this country can be tagged as a victim of neglect (a form of abuse).

 

[JimG]

It seems that whenever marriage is being discused, and the damage that the sexual revolution has done to it, we devolve into a discussion of spousal abuse. What puzzles me is this: Why do people marry abusers? Spouses pledge to love, honoer, and cherish each other for life. How have we become such bad judges of character?

When I married my wife, my goal was to do everything I could to bring her joy. She was determined to do everything she could to make me happy.

If parents were tasked with arranging marriages and selecting spouses for their sons and daughters, one would think that they would do better at judging characting and making selections. Maybe we should be arguing for a return of arranged marriages.

 

[Lea101]

If parents were tasked with arranging marriages and selecting spouses for their sons and daughters, one would think that they would do better at judging characting and making selections. Maybe we should be arguing for a return of arranged marriages

Yikes. That would probably make the situation a lot worse.

 

[Lou2U]

What puzzles me is this: Why do people marry abusers? Spouses pledge to love, honoer, and cherish each other for life. How have we become such bad judges of character?

I think it’s really unfair to characterise people who marry abusers as bad judges of character. The reason abusers get away with what they do is because they hide their true nature, they start bad behaviour slowly and intersperse it with love and affection. One analogy that explains abuse is the notion of a boiling frog. If you heat a pan of water to boiling and put a frog in it, it’ll jump straight out. If you slowly turn up the heat, the frog doesn’t notice and eventually it boils along with the water.

Abusers are very good at what they do. They isolate their victims, take them away from their family and friends. They gaslight and manipulate so the abused thinks they are in some way responsible for everything and so they cannot see clearly. It’s so much more complicated than being a judge of bad character.

If parents were tasked with arranging marriages and selecting spouses for their sons and daughters, one would think that they would do better at judging characting and making selections. Maybe we should be arguing for a return of arranged marriages.

I completely disagree. In the cases of abusers, many are very charming and confident. They project what they need to in order to get their victim right where they want. I doubt parents would be able to see through this a lot of the time. And even moving away from abuse, I don’t think arranged marriages would necessarily be a good idea.

 

[Sarcelle]

A middle way would be that potential spouses be vetted by friends and family who have your best interest in mind. Sometimes third parties may have a better view of the relationship than those who are involved.

Of course truly sociopathic individuals are masters of deception and they can fool a lot of people.

 

[Lifeisbeautiful3]

What puzzles me is this: Why do people marry abusers? Spouses pledge to love, honoer, and cherish each other for life. How have we become such bad judges of character?

When I married my wife, my goal was to do everything I could to bring her joy. She was determined to do everything she could to make me happy.

@JimG That also was my goal. But my wife of over a decade changed. She left us and hasn’t called or written me (or the children) in many years. Decree of Nulity is pending, but to suggest that I “picked wrong” lacks any sensibility. You could say that mental illness is some unique exception, but mental illnesses are more common than many may realize.

Does abandonment = abuse? No. Doesn’t make it okay, either, even under the influence of a mental illness

 

[chessnerd321]

Despite it’s issues, I think Brave New World does a good job of showing the depravity that comes with separating children from sex.

Unfortunately a lot of people don’t see that part. In certain ways that’s where we’re headed.

Of 1984 and BNW I once heard “Orwell thinks what we fear will destroy us. Huxley thinks what we love will consume us.” We’re well on our way.

 

[PetraG]

Why shouldn’t divorce be easy? Some women are being physically abused and need an out ASAP

This is an argument concerning why a legal separation and restraining orders ought to be easy, not an argument about why one party to a such a serious legal commitment ought to be able to terminate it unilaterally, without cause or proof, without delay and yet with full rights to all co-mingled financial assets.

 

[PetraG]

What puzzles me is this: Why do people marry abusers? Spouses pledge to love, honoer, and cherish each other for life. How have we become such bad judges of character?

You have to have been treated well in your life to expect to be treated well and yet you have to have known enough people capable of serious offenses to realize that most of the time many abusers seem like “regular people.” (It is also dangerous to see yourself as someone who can smooth over any conflict and who can make the most of any other human being, whether they want to be your improvement project or not.)

The people I know who were in abusive relationships were willing to forgive occasional bad behavior that they did not appreciate was evidence of a serious character flaw that was unlikely to do anything except become worse.

 

[JimG]

Yes, I agree that people including spouses, can sometimes change in unforeseen ways. Sometimes that may be that the couple did not really know each other well enough before they married. But I have also seen enough marital split-ups over the course of the years, and frequently they were predictable, even by third party observers such as myself. One party was immature, one was uncommitted, one was hanging on to his college days instead of joining into a new life with his wife. It seems that often friends and family might look on, not interfering, but thinking to themselves, “oh, this is going to be a disaster.” But the one getting married doesn’t see it.

 

[PetraG]

Yes, I agree that people including spouses, can sometimes change in unforeseen ways. Sometimes that may be that the couple did not really know each other well enough before they married. But I have also seen enough marital split-ups over the course of the years, and frequently they were predictable, even by third party observers such as myself. One party was immature, one was uncommitted, one was hanging on to his college days instead of joining into a new life with his wife. It seems that often friends and family might look on, not interfering, but thinking to themselves, “oh, this is going to be a disaster.” But the one getting married doesn’t see it.

Exactly. Some of time the people who were on the guest list for the wedding are surprised, but a lot of the time, they sadly are not surprised at all, particularly the attendees who had made a few trips around the barn.

 

[FloridaCatholic]

Because no one should be stuck in marriage to their abuser

 

[chessnerd321]

I frankly don’t see how getting rid of one type of divorce results in another being harder. Seeing as abuse is a crime and most of the issues come with getting the victim to come forth anyway.

 

[PetraG]

Because no one should be stuck in marriage to their abuser.

It is OK for someone to be unilaterally abandoned without warning and without cause? As soon as one spouse thinks it would be easier to be married to someone else or just not married at all, they ought to be able to take off with half of everything, no questions asked? Just use the word “abuse” and you’re free of everything you promised?

Don’t get me wrong. I know people who have been in abusive relationships in which no crimes were committed, because there is nothing in the criminal code covering verbal abuse or being a control freak in marriage when it doesn’t involve physical attacks. Unfortunately, however, there needs to be a process. When it is easy to divorce, it is also easy to make the biggest and most foolish mistake of your life.

 

[FloridaCatholic]

Yes if that person abused their spouse. No one is abandoned without cause

There is always a cause

 

[PetraG]

Yes if that person abused their spouse. No one is abandoned without cause

There is always a cause

What was the cause that lead to the departure of the Prodigal Son? That was a cause. It just wasn’t a cause that was the fault of anyone in the family left behind.

Yes, there are people who are married to abusers, but there are a lot of families abandoned by a spouse and parent who doesn’t want to have the “burden” of the commitment they made.

 

[FloridaCatholic]

If someone doesn’t want to remain married anymore, it’s a free country. They should be able to go

 

[PetraG]

If someone doesn’t want to remain married anymore, it’s a free country. They should be able to go

Are you going to let people out of their business contracts just as easily, then? It is a free country for enterprise, too, right?

No one should wonder why so many people are living together and having families without marrying. It is out of fear that the “free country” attitude is going to leave them destitute some day.

 

[FloridaCatholic]

Marriage is different. If someone doesn’t want to remain married and they want to marry someone else, we aren’t a theocracy.

 

[PetraG]

Marriage is different. If someone doesn’t want to remain married and they want to marry someone else, we aren’t a theocracy.

Where did I make any reference to theology? I asked why this contract should be so flimsy when the consequences of breaking it are obviously so serious. It isn’t just a business investment. It is everything you have had together, it is your children, it is all the decisions you have made on the premise that you were in it together for life.

No, just because we’re a secular country doesn’t mean that we ought to enshrine marital flakiness into law.