The Shocking Paper Predicting the End of Democracy

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I would have been stirred like the three ladies sitting next to the author in Lisbon, to loudly object. Exactly for the reason cited…

What stirred the crowd was that Rosenberg has gone beyond pessimism into outright defeatism. What riled the crowd was that he’s seemingly embraced a kind of reverence for elitism no longer fashionable in the academy. When challenged on this front, he quickly insisted he didn’t mean to exempt himself from the claim that people suffer from cognitive and emotional limitations. He conceded that the psychological research shows everybody’s irrational, professors included! But it was unclear that he convinced the members of the audience he really meant it. And they apparently found this discomforting.

The belief that certain ‘types’ are the stuff of a ruling elite is behind The Family that was the subject of the recent netflix doco. They genuinely believe themselves to be a divinely elected cult of males who are born to rule. They have no interest in the common good as we know it and no interest in the will of the people unless they are people who will blindly follow them.
 
repentant2 said:
Well, most people are idiots and do need people to make the big picture decisions for them. What does the average person know about national security, geopolitics, the economy, or statecraft in general?

Democracy is a failed experiment. It’ll die with 21st century.
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Does it bother you at all that a ruling elite that doesn’t fit with your ideology may have the reigns of government?
 
Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to say that democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious, or less avaricious than aristocracy or monarchy.
-John Adams.
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The professor is not original. What was original and often lost in today’s America is that Adams was right.
Which is why we are not supposed to be a democracy.
 
JonNC said:
Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to say that democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious, or less avaricious than aristocracy or monarchy.
-John Adams.
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Modern history shows Adams to be speaking in the light of his experience of his times. We can see him revising the statement in the light of Mao, Stalin, Hitlers regimes.
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I like what Plato outlined in the republic. Basically you raise up a class of people trained in philosophy, history, sociology, and economics. You don’t allow them to have kids or personal property so they have no reason to be bias and then you give them control. These people are selected mostly out of the higher classes of society. It sounds shockingly like the priesthood if you squint, which hasn’t been perfect, but the church has existed for 2000 years, way better than any government.
 
But even the Church fell into disrepute in the closing century of the middle ages. I don’t think I’d get much argument in saying some of the occupants of Peter’s throne were deserving of the job, and for a while it was basically the play thing of the Italian elite, before the French asserted authority for a while. Ultimately it lead to the permanent fracture of the Western Church and one of the bloodiest wars in European history.
 
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Yet it’s still standing on the same principles it was back then. America already has drifted significantly from what it stood for. In another 200? I’ll be surprised if it exists.

And as you point out, most of the failures of the papacy are traceable to a weakening of the value system I outlined. That seems to strengthen my argument, not weaken it as you’re implying.

I mean, democracy led to the dropping of the atomic bombs and abortion and and and and and…do we really want to play the “whoever stacks up the least amount of bodies was right” game? That’s such a inane exercise.
 
I’d argue the weakening of the papacy stemmed from the Investiture Controversy and it’s increasingly domineering attitude towards Christian Princes. The Papacy overreached.
 
Kaninchen said:
The reactionary elite are hugely in favour of Brexit.
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Judging from what’s been happening since the referendum, I’d suggest the reactionary elite is quite outnumbered by the Remain-favoring elite. The Remainer elite really distrust the people. Or they would long since have allowed a second referendum or an early election. They just can’t stomach the risk that the people might vote “incorrectly” as they did in 2016. Democracy doesn’t work any more for them than it does for Boris.
chessnerd321 said:
Yet it’s still standing on the same principles it was back then. America already has drifted significantly from what it stood for. In another 200? I’ll be surprised if it exists.
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I’ll be surprised if America still exists as is in 30 years. It’s going to be hard enough to survive the 2020’s as it is.

Democracy is not much more than two wolves and a sheep deciding what’s for dinner. The more accurate description of America is that of a representative republic and even that is falling into the throes of oligarchy and beyond. Neither tends to survive that long past the point the people realize they can vote themselves money from the treasury.
 
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Emeraldlady said:
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JonNC:
Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to say that democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious, or less avaricious than aristocracy or monarchy.
-John Adams.
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Modern history shows Adams to be speaking in the light of his experience of his times. We can see him revising the statement in the light of Mao, Stalin, Hitlers regimes.
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We also know that he and the other framers had no appetite for the tyranny of the majority. That is why we have the constitution we have.
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chessnerd321 said:
I mean, democracy led to the dropping of the atomic bombs and abortion and and and and and…do we really want to play the “whoever stacks up the least amount of bodies was right” game? That’s such a inane exercise.
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First, as my uncle served in the occupation of Japan and would have been part of an invasion force, there is a strong chance my cousins would not be here today. The atom bomb made their lives possible.
Second, in a democracy, we would have had a vote on these. I don’t recall a vote in 1973 about abortion. I do recall a terrible SCOTUS decision, evidence that progressives on the Court often undermine the constitution.
 
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chessnerd321 said:
I mean, democracy led to the dropping of the atomic bombs and abortion and and and and and…do we really want to play the “whoever stacks up the least amount of bodies was right” game? That’s such a inane exercise.
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No it didn’t. The American public didn’t learn about the Manhattan Project until after the bombs had been dropped. They had no (name removed by moderator)ut. Abortion was decided by the Supreme Court, not the public. Then, as now, public opinion was against unrestricted abortion.
 
repentant2 said:
It doesn’t matter who’s in charge no two people are ever going to agree on everything. Put some people at the top that want to let the average joe make a living and honor God and raise a family and forget the rest.
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Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. No one person, or small group of people, short of Christ Himself can be trusted to do what you suggest.
 
You should look at my post in context. American democracy led to the atomic bombs and abortion in much the same way they were suggesting the priesthood lead to the Reformation (among other things). Which is basically those in power decided to do some stupid stuff.
 
chessnerd321 said:
You should look at my post in context. American democracy led to the atomic bombs and abortion in much the same way they were suggesting the priesthood lead to the Reformation (among other things). Which is basically those in power decided to do some stupid stuff.
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America doesn’t have a democracy.
 
Whatever you think of Roe v Wade, the idea of civil liberties being decided by popular vote is pretty terrifying.
 
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