The Shroud of Turin is the Greatest Gift given to Mankind

[Mannyfit75]

Church Says Shroud of Turin Isn’t Authentic

New York Times, October 14, 1988

“The Roman Catholic Church announced today that the Shroud of Turin, venerated by millions of Christians over the centuries as the burial cloth of Jesus, could not be authentic because new scientific tests show that the linen dates from the Middle Ages.”

That article is rather old. I suggest, you read the Shroud of Turin study group. The early test shows that the carbon dating was incorrect.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The evidence that the Shroud is the Burial cloth of Jesus is as follows:

1. There are pollen grains on the shroud that originated from Jerusalem in the first Century.
2. There is a AB Blood stain on the shroud. Most middle eastern people have a blood type of AB.

PILATE’S LEPTON

It is the three-dimensional analysis (figure 27) which gave birth to this hypothesis, but even a look at an ordinary photograph will clearly reveal a kind of disc placed over each eyelid, dark on the positive and light on the negative.

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Figure 28: The enlargement of the eyelid shows an imprint of the same size (15mm) and the same cut as this coin (to its left) stamped with the astrologer’s staff, the emblem of Pontius Pilate.

Figure 28: The enlargement of the eyelid shows an imprint of the same size (15mm) and the same cut as this coin (to its left) stamped with the astrologer’s staff, the emblem of Pontius Pilate.

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Figure 33: The three (or four?) Hebrew letters are recognisable: Taw, Waw (which, because of the uncertain descending line, could be interpreted as a Yod), Tsadé and perhaps Lamed (photo Ugolotti).

 

[Mannyfit75]

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Figure 34: The sentence delivered by Pilate could immediately be enforced with no need for the imperial assent. But sentence was passed in the name of the Emperor, whose representative was the Procurator. This would explain the presence of the name TIBERIUS CÆSAR in the titulus damnationis. To the lower right, it is possible to distinguish the final E of IN NECE (see figure 35 – photo Ugolotti).

british-israel.ca/shroud.htm

 

[Mannyfit75]

Updated Article: british-israel.ca/shroud.htm

ANALYSIS OF THE CARBON 14 DATING: WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG
Breaking News

A January 20, 2005 article in the scholarly, peer-reviewed scientific journal Thermochimica Acta (Volume 425, pages 189-194, by Raymond N. Rogers, Los Alamos National Laboratory, University of California) makes it perfectly clear: the carbon 14 dating sample cut from the Shroud in 1988 was not valid. In fact, the Shroud is much older than the carbon 14 tests suggested.

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No matter what any one of us may believe about the Shroud’s authenticity, we can no longer say that carbon 14 dating proves medieval origins; for the tests in 1988 were botched. For those who after 1988 continued to believe that the Shroud was the genuine burial cloth of Jesus, a winter of ridicule and doubts has ended. For all who use carbon 14 dating to study all manner of ancient objects, a period of careful reassessment is just beginning.

There are, in understanding what went wrong, important lessons that will ripple through archeology, anthropology, forensics and science lecture halls whenever and wherever carbon 14 dating is discussed. Students will ask why a single sample from a suspect corner was used. They will wonder why protestations from experts in the Shroud’s chemistry were ignored. The will ask why documented data was not considered. They will talk about the clues of material intrusion that were simply ignored.

Material intrusion is well known in the application of carbon 14 dating. A classic example is to be found in the dating of peat bogs. Very old bogs often contain miniscule roots from newer plants that grew in the peat. The roots of these plants, sometimes having decomposed, are nearly indistinguishable from the older peat. What ends up being tested is a mixture of old and new material which produces an average, meaningless carbon 14 age. No one seemed to consider, in 1988, that material intrusion might be a serious problem with the Shroud of Turin carbon 14 dating even though clues were there.

The 1988 carbon 14 dating failure will not be ignored; for how does one ignore such a famous example. It should not be ignored because of the lessons to be learned. It cannot be ignored so long students raise hands and Google-check lecture notes. It should not be ignored when journalists and authors write about carbon 14 dating. There are textbooks, encyclopedias and many websites to be updated.

This is not a condemnation of carbon 14 dating. It is an extraordinary technology that with uncanny precision can count the approximately one in a trillion carbon 14 isotopes that exist compared to the more common carbon 12 and carbon 13 isotopes; isotopes that exist in all living material and material that once was living. In the case of the Shroud it was the fibers of flax plants from which linen thread is made. When a plant or animal dies it no longer absorbs carbon. And so begins a process that can be measured. Because carbon 14 is radioactive, it decays. And because scientists know the rate of decay, measured in half-lifes, they can calculate how old something is. The current state of the technology is useful for dating things younger than 50,000 years. For material that is only a few thousand years old, carbon 14 dating is very accurate and very reliable.

Because of the carbon 14 dating, the Shroud of Turin, a religious object important to Christians of many traditions (Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Protestant and Evangelical; conservative and liberal alike) has been cast into the spotlight of secular science. It is not because the Shroud is famous, although it is. It is because the 1988 carbon 14 dating was made famous. And because it was made famous, and because it will now be discussed, the related science of the Shroud will also get attention:

the peculiar nano-scale carbohydrate film that coats some of the fibers, a coating that holds within its chemical makeup the conjugated complex carbon bonds of the images;

the forensics of the blood that, because it is ancient, should be black but is red for good chemical reasons;

the ancillary age-related data about the depletion of vanillin from the lignin of the flax (cellulose) fibers, the depletion that indicates that the Shroud is much older than the carbon 14 assigned date range of 1260 to 1390.

 

[Mannyfit75]

From the BBC News

The Shroud of Turin is much older than suggested by radiocarbon dating carried out in the 1980s, according to a new study in a peer-reviewed journal.

A research paper published in Thermochimica Acta suggests the shroud is between 1,300 and 3,000 years old.

The author dismisses 1988 carbon-14 dating tests which concluded that the linen sheet was a medieval fake.

The shroud, which bears the faint image of a blood-covered man, is believed by some to be Christ’s burial cloth.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4210369.stm

 

[First_of_9]

Sorry, OP, but the Shroud of Turin is not the greatest gift given to mankind.

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the GREATEST GIFT!

It doesn’t matter to me whether the Shroud is real or not. It doesn’t affect my faith at all. In fact, even if it were real, it would fall under the umbrella of *private revelation. *

It adds absolutely nothing to the Deposit of Faith and cannot add anything to the Deposit of Faith.

 

[SyCarl]

Sorry, OP, but the Shroud of Turin is not the greatest gift given to mankind.

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the GREATEST GIFT!

It doesn’t matter to me whether the Shroud is real or not. It doesn’t affect my faith at all. In fact, even if it were real, it would fall under the umbrella of *private revelation. *

It adds absolutely nothing to the Deposit of Faith and cannot add anything to the Deposit of Faith.

 

[Righteousone]

Sorry, OP, but the Shroud of Turin is not the greatest gift given to mankind.

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the GREATEST GIFT!

It doesn’t matter to me whether the Shroud is real or not. It doesn’t affect my faith at all. In fact, even if it were real, it would fall under the umbrella of *private revelation. *

It adds absolutely nothing to the Deposit of Faith and cannot add anything to the Deposit of Faith.

The reason being the greatest gift given to mankind, because it is the face of Jesus Christ that you are looking at…anyone want to argue that?

 

[Righteousone]

That article is rather old. I suggest, you read the Shroud of Turin study group. The early test shows that the carbon dating was incorrect.

Thank you Manny for your knowledgeable account of this great gift for all.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

The reason being the greatest gift given to mankind, because it is the face of Jesus Christ that you are looking at…anyone want to argue that?

The Eucharist is not just an image of Christ (even a miraculous image) - it IS Christ Himself, truly and substantially present!!!]

Now don’t get me wrong, the Shroud is a wonderful thing (I personally believe it to be true, though I don’t base my faith on it), but the Eucharist is by far the greatest gift.

Jesus in the Eucharist is the greatest gift God ever gave us. The Eucharist is the source, center and summit of the Church’s (and our) life.

 

[Righteousone]

Sorry, OP, but the Shroud of Turin is not the greatest gift given to mankind.

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the GREATEST GIFT!

It doesn’t matter to me whether the Shroud is real or not. It doesn’t affect my faith at all. In fact, even if it were real, it would fall under the umbrella of *private revelation. *

It adds absolutely nothing to the Deposit of Faith and cannot add anything to the Deposit of Faith.

Who cares what it falls under?? IT IS THE FACE OF CHRIST! And being able to look into the face of Christ is the greatest gift of all.

 

[Righteousone]

Valke, for your information, the man Barry Schwortz has a website dedicated to the Holy Shroud which is www.shroud.com which was opened up by Schwortz himself who is a former STRUP member. it has already been hit 86,000 times on the internet.
The Whangers who are a couple who study the Shroud have found the phrase “OF NAZARETH”, thus confirming in one fell swoop, the authenticity of the title, the authenticity of the Shroud, and the historicicity of the Gospel of St. John.

 

[First_of_9]

Hello,

The Eucharist is not just an image of Christ (even a miraculous image) - it IS Christ Himself, truly and substantially present!!!]

Now don’t get me wrong, the Shroud is a wonderful thing (I personally believe it to be true, though I don’t base my faith on it), but the Eucharist is by far the greatest gift.

Jesus in the Eucharist is the greatest gift God ever gave us. The Eucharist is the source, center and summit of the Church’s (and our) life.

Agree completely:thumbsup:

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

“The greatest gift given to mankind” ? Err…no.​

It cannot forgive sins, or save sinners, or reconcile sinners with God, or atone for sin. It is not a sacrament, it is not the Bible, it is not the Church, it is not the grace of God - & most importantly, it is not Jesus Christ; far less is it is His Resurrection, His Death, His Teaching, or His Life. His acts are what save - objects said to have been in contact with Him don’t.

 

[Righteousone]

What did Peter find when he entered the tomb? The eyewitness John reported: “He viewed the bandages lying, also the cloth that had been upon his head not lying with the bandages but separately rolled up in one place.” (John 20:6,*7) Notice that there is no mention of the fine linen—only of bandages and the headcloth. Since John specifies the bandages and the headcloth, would it not seem likely that he would have mentioned the fine linen, or shroud, if it had been there?

In addition, consider this: If the graveclothes of Jesus had his image upon them, does it not seem that it would have been noticed and would have become a subject for discussion? Yet, beyond what is in the Gospels, there is complete silence in the Bible about the graveclothes.

Even the professed Christian writers of the third and fourth centuries, many of whom wrote about a host of so-called miracles in connection with numerous relics, did not mention the existence of a shroud containing the image of Jesus. This is hard to understand, since 15th- and 16th-century viewers, according to Jesuit scholar Herbert Thurston, “describe the impressions on the shroud as so vivid in detail and colouring that they might have been quite freshly made.”

The Gospels were inspired in Greek, and the Greek word for “clean linen cloth” or “fine linen” is sindon, but the word sindon does not appear in the Gospel of John.
John says " And when he stooped down, he saw the linen cloths lying but yet he went not in. Then cometh Simon Peter, following him, and went into the sepulchre, and saw the linen cloths lying. And the napkin that had been about his head, not lying with the linen cloths, but apart, wrapped up into one place (20:5-7)
The Greek word for “linen cloths” is othonia, and for “napkin” soudarion. St. John wrote in Greek, not Aramaic, and soudarion in Greek means "a napkin, or cloth to wipe off sweat.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The reason being the greatest gift given to mankind, because it is the face of Jesus Christ that you are looking at…anyone want to argue that?

A point or six:​

• A lot of Jews were crucified at the period indicated
• It may be the Face of Christ - then again, it might not be
• His contemporaries saw a lot of Him - they weren’t all converted though
• Seeing Him is irrelevant to faith - it doesn’t cause it, nor does it hinder it, because faith is a gift from God, & is not caused by what - or Whom - we see
• His Face will be terrible to the demons: seeing Him will be utterly useless to them
• “We walk by faith, not by sight”

 

[Righteousone]

“The greatest gift given to mankind” ? Err…no.​

It cannot forgive sins, or save sinners, or reconcile sinners with God, or atone for sin. It is not a sacrament, it is not the Bible, it is not the Church, it is not the grace of God - & most importantly, it is not Jesus Christ; far less is it is His Resurrection, His Death, His Teaching, or His Life. His acts are what save - objects said to have been in contact with Him don’t.

The greatest gift IN THIS CENTURY…geez…you people take things so literal here…

 

[rossum]

No disrespect here, but you are a Buddhist and Buddha did not die for our sins.

Irrelevant. You are not a citizen of Mars, but that does not affect the truth or not of your statements about the Shroud. My religion does not have any bearing on the point I made about a forger having access to the New Testament and matching any forgery to the known text.

rossum

 

[Righteousone]

Irrelevant. You are not a citizen of Mars, but that does not affect the truth or not of your statements about the Shroud. My religion does not have any bearing on the point I made about a forger having access to the New Testament and matching any forgery to the known text.

rossum

It is not a forgery…what don’t you understand here? Are you reading my threads?

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

The greatest gift IN THIS CENTURY…geez…you people take things so literal here…

You may (if you are properly disposed) receive Jesus in the Eucharist on almost every day of the year. That is definitely current.

Jesus in the Eucharist is the greatest gift God ever gave us. The Eucharist is the source, center and summit of the Church’s (and our) life.