The Sign of the Cross

[vocatio]

For minute there I thought Mr. Gorbochev was haunting me for comparing his head stain to my daughters leg.

All I did was point, you clicked. This is what helped me come back home understanding things I didn’t previously know. People think that our control freak bishops just made up all this nonesense. I’ve found over the years that many to most of our traditions have a purpose…rooted in history. Even the rosary is rooted in history but developed into what we see today.

I sign myself still when I pass a Catholic or Orthodox Church because I know that a valid Eucharist is there at least on Sundays. I sign right to left if it is an Orhtodox church and left to right if it is a Catholic church.

 

[tGette]

Probably true in some circles. I also cross myself and, since it is for me, I frankly don’t care if someone thinks I look “too Catholic”.

I think it is great!, because if in public someone were to ask you about it…they would most likely get an education realizing that this practice is not exclusive to Catholics. (Of course…most people would not ask.)

Really, though…how many people would see that and think:
“I wonder which kind of Christian he/she is?”

Because you know immediately they say “Catholic!” and do not think otherwise…at least more than not.

It is a shame that the Sign of the Cross has a stigma attached to it and a bigger shame because of what they wrongly believe about the Catholic Church.

And a shame also that the stigmata of “Catholic corruption” is applied to non-Catholics who make this small statement of faith and almost unfair that they receive the same negative thoughts…which mainly come from ignorance.

 

[tGette]

I also agree with Publisher. I happen to really like doing the Sign of the Cross though. It is so simple to do, and so profound when you think of the life of Jesus in doing it.
Maybe its in the simple things the seemingly small things we do that we can find a way to express our thankfulness to Jesus and meditate on him, and for me it helps my spirituality deepen.

This is the key! Such a small “ritualistic sign” and it has hidden in it a simple and profound way to meditate.

 

[TLara]

That is fine and dandy however they have the lords supper in the lutheran church not the Eucahrist. The only place the Eucharist is valid is at a Traditional Latin mass. The new mass (after Vatican II) is not valid.

are you aware that these statements constitute heresy and may be grounds for excommunication. let me guess you belong to sspx? explain to me how the so called tlm is traditional when it wasn’t practiced till 1570. so was the mass prior to 1570 valid? Remember the TLM is only one form of many and does not mean its the only!

 

[JonNC]

tGette;4134504]
Really, though…how many people would see that and think:
“I wonder which kind of Christian he/she is?”
Because you know immediately they say “Catholic!” and do not think otherwise…at least more than not.

Think about it this way, the ones who would think which kind of Christian, and the ones who think “Catholic”, in both instances the cross of Christ is before them in a noticable way.

It is a shame that the Sign of the Cross has a stigma attached to it and a bigger shame because of what they wrongly believe about the Catholic Church.
And a shame also that the stigmata of “Catholic corruption” is applied to non-Catholics who make this small statement of faith and almost unfair that they receive the same negative thoughts…which mainly come from ignorance

Perhaps, in one small way, this is a way to share with others that Catholics and non-catholics are brothers and sisters in Christ, that we are all “marked withthe cross of Christ” in our Baptisms and our prayers, our differences notwithstanding.

Jon

 

[vocatio]

are you aware that these statements constitute heresy and may be grounds for excommunication. let me guess you belong to sspx? explain to me how the so called tlm is traditional when it wasn’t practiced till 1570. so was the mass prior to 1570 valid? Remember the TLM is only one form of many and does not mean its the only!

For non-Catholics SSPX is one sect of traditional Catholic like my dad was before his death.

 

[valiermn]

This is heresy…very wrong. The ordinary form of the mass, known to many as the New Mass or the Novos Ordo, is valid. I’d advise you not bring this up again.

Is that a threat ? I understand why you are upset at Latinonly response but are threats needed? I am new to this forum and I am shocked at how some intimidate others. If you can not say it out loud do not post it is a good rule to live by

 

[tGette]

Think about it this way, the ones who would think which kind of Christian, and the ones who think “Catholic”, in both instances the cross of Christ is before them in a noticable way.

Perhaps, in one small way, this is a way to share with others that Catholics and non-catholics are brothers and sisters in Christ, that we are all “marked withthe cross of Christ” in our Baptisms and our prayers, our differences notwithstanding.

Jon

Amen…Amen!

 

[vocatio]

Is that a threat ? I understand why you are upset at Latinonly response but are threats needed? I am new to this forum and I am shocked at how some intimidate others. If you can not say it out loud do not post it is a good rule to live by

BAck up cowboy. It’s not only heresy to say such a thing but also an insult to Catholics…obedient Catholics that are not in dissent. Okay no you think that little men, answerable only to me, are crawling out of your keyboard now that I know where you’re…It’s kill or be killed…the game in real life…coming to a video store near you… I think you’ve been playing to many video games.

Advise was good. I’d advise that you not bring this up or you will draw an endless crowd of like minded Catholics wanting to defend the Church against the heresy stated…eating up valuable resources on CAF…wasting folks times…and posibly getting this thread locked. Or worse, banned from the board all together… My “advise” was to help prevent an unwanted scenario, not detract. We’re off topic now and that is what I didn’t like and on top it was an offensive thing to say and out of nowhere…responding to someone elses comment I guess. Besides that argument would be for another thread on a different forum.

 

[jblake]

tGette;:

Why do you not sign the cross?

It simply isn’t part of the teachings, beliefs, or practices of the church I currently attend, nor of the church I was raised in.

xan

jonathon

 

[jblake]

tGette;:

Really, though…how many people would see that and think:
“I wonder which kind of Christian he/she is?”

And how many people would wonder why the circle was omitted?

xan

jonathon

 

[valiermn]

BAck up cowboy. It’s not only heresy to say such a thing but also an insult to Catholics…obedient Catholics that are not in dissent. Okay no you think that little men, answerable only to me, are crawling out of your keyboard now that I know where you’re…It’s kill or be killed…the game in real life…coming to a video store near you… I think you’ve been playing to many video games.

Advise was good. I’d advise that you not bring this up or you will draw an endless crowd of like minded Catholics wanting to defend the Church against the heresy stated…eating up valuable resources on CAF…wasting folks times…and posibly getting this thread locked. Or worse, banned from the board all together… My “advise” was to help prevent an unwanted scenario, not detract. We’re off topic now and that is what I didn’t like and on top it was an offensive thing to say and out of nowhere…responding to someone elses comment I guess. Besides that argument would be for another thread on a different forum.

Never have played Video games not sure where that came from? As for the Cowboy Remark Yes I was a rancher and the problem with that is what? You Do not know where I live and if you di what would that change and what would you do ? "Kill or be Killed "what is that about?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Jesus came down from heaven (your finger goes from the top of your forehead down to your abdomen, you think of him coming down from heaven)
then the left must be the time of trial and temptation, suffering, ect…
Then the right- Jesus is at the right hand side of the Father.
We remember the cross, and other aspects of the life of Jesus this way. At least thats how I think of it when I cross myself.
Meanwhile thinking, Father Son Holy Spirit also.
I may be wrong but I think every christian should do the sign of the cross, and not be ashamed to.

I’ll just add that in addition to all of the above, the Orthodox put three fingers together for the Undivided Trinity, and stick the two fingers, together for the Two Natures united in the One Person of Christ, intot the base of the Thumb (which is part of the three) to show the Incarnation brings us into the life of the Most Holy Trinity.

Also, touching the head, abdomen/chest and shoulders is that you dedicate your mind, heart and strength to the service of the Cross, bowing as you do the sign of the Cross to show you are taking up your Cross.

I can’t remember who said it (Fr. Guillquist?) who said the Sign of the Cross is a handful of theology.

Our parish has a number of missionaries in Albania. One we are sure will be canonized in no time. Her husband told us a story: the communists declared Albania the first atheist state in history, and enforced it. One could get 20 years hard labor if they found red egg shell fragments at your house around Pascha (proof you celebrated it). One old lady, the authorities were told, claimed “I have a Cross, and they will never be able to take it from me.” The authorities searched her house, strip searched her, and when they couldn’t find “the Cross,” they dismantled her house-floorboards, etc, to find it. When they didn’t, they told the old woman she was crazy. At that point she bowed her head, making the Sign of the Cross, saying, “I have a Cross and you will never be able to take it from me.”
Ἐν τούτῳ νίκα
In hoc signo vinces
IN THIS SIGN CONQUER

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Well, I knew they probably had them in Russia. But didn’t know they were so distinct as to practice the sign of the cross.

That’s one function of Tradition: to be so ingrained it can’t be erased.

A Protestant missionary in Sudan told me one day that someone came in with a request for a French Bible (the mission was American and hence English speaking). The man was coming from a isolated part of Tchad. He said that he was Muslim, as were everyone in his village. These villagers, however, always, since their forefathers since beyond they could remember, built houses with Crosses over the entrances (cf. Deut. 4:6-9), made the sign of the Cross on the forehead of their newborns etc. Btw, such villages exist in the Western Desert, Islamicized remnants of the missions of the Coptic and (extinct ) Nubian Orthodox Churches. When he arrived in Khartoum he saw a Cross, and was told that it was the sign of the Christians, and he said he wanted to get the Christians’ book but only could read French.

Now obviously, this village lost its Chrsitian Faith, but this “dead tradition” is what brought him to the Gospel. Yes, these dry bones can live.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

When I was a Baptist we never, ever made the Sign of the Cross at any kind of worship service. It was not taught as a good or bad thing. It was just never mentioned or practiced. That said, when I made a trip to Paris back in my Navy days I was able to stop by Notre Dame and for some reason when I walked into Notre Dame I – a non-Catholic – had a strong urge to light a candle, say, a prayer, and make the sign of the cross. I remember thinking later how odd it was that I would do such a thing and I’ve never forgotten that little event.

I guess the writing was on the wall that ~ 10 years later I would enter the Catholic Church.

I was a VERY low church Lutheran (I was burning icons), and I had a similar experience venerating the shrines in Jerusalem.

I embraced Orthodoxy within a year later.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Just out of curiosity is there anything out of scripture that tells us to make the sign of a cross or is this just done out of tradition?

Sure:
Galatians 6:14.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

It simply is not part of my religious practice. I understand why most Christians use it…I understand why most Christians are baptized and celebrate the Eucharist…it is a “ritual sign”…and “outward form” that in Quaker thought could be used as a substitute to the “reality” of faith. Making the “sign of the cross” no more proves ones salvation or proves ones piety than wearing a cross does.

If it enhances your devotion, then by all means utilize it…it does not do so for me.

Do the Society of Friends still claim to be Christian?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Though not many posted who do not make the sign of the cross…the jist I am getting is that Protestants do not do it because:

It looks…

“TOO CATHOLIC!”

Father Guillquist I think coined the term “Romophobia.”

 

[Isa_Almisry]

For minute there I thought Mr. Gorbochev was haunting me for comparing his head stain to my daughters leg.

All I did was point, you clicked. This is what helped me come back home understanding things I didn’t previously know. People think that our control freak bishops just made up all this nonesense. I’ve found over the years that many to most of our traditions have a purpose…rooted in history. Even the rosary is rooted in history but developed into what we see today.

I sign myself still when I pass a Catholic or Orthodox Church because I know that a valid Eucharist is there at least on Sundays. I sign right to left if it is an Orhtodox church and left to right if it is a Catholic church.

You can do it every day: the Eucharist is in the Tabernacle on the altar always.

 

[Publisher]

Do the Society of Friends still claim to be Christian?

Yes the Society of Friends as a whole consider themselves Christian. However, you may find some people who do not identify themselves as “christian” but as “Quaker” or “Friend”…Historically Friends have used “Christian words” to define it’s beliefs…most Meetings of Friends United Meeting and Evangelical Friends Church consider themselves “Christian”…there are those in independent meetings and Friend’s General Conference who do not…we are united in the Light and our common worship experience, not through doctrinal statements or formulas.

I attend a Meeting where the majority identify themselves as “Christian”…but we have some Buddhists, Neo-Pagans and a Sufi Friend…Quakerism is based on an experiential understanding of the Divine…not doctrinal/dogmatical concepts that can “blur” our experience with the Living One as the “concepts” and “creeds” become substitutes for the Living Reality in our midst.