The silence in the liturgy

[voitrang]

Can you give me some ideas about the silence in the liturgy: Its resource: in scripture, history, magisterium… and its role?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Can you give me some ideas about the silence in the liturgy: Its resource: in scripture, history, magisterium… and its role?

No, just a hint.
In the West is a sign of respect.
In Africa, no. You must sing and dance. That is how you show respect.
Now for the nuns in silence in Africa? I do not know.

 

[wasserfall]

No, just a hint.
In the West is a sign of respect.
In Africa, no. You must sing and dance. That is how you show respect.

Really? Do you think there was singing and dancing in the liturgies celebrated by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre when he was Apostolic Vicar of Dakar in the 1940s?

I kind of doubt it.

Maybe something happened to change things since then.

 

[wasserfall]

I can’t help you much, but here is a canon from the Council of Trent which touches on the subject:

If any one saith, that the rite of the Roman Church, according to which a part of the canon and the words of consecration are pronounced in a low tone, is to be condemned; or, that the mass ought to be celebrated in the vulgar tongue only; or, that water ought not to be mixed with the wine that is to be offered in the chalice, for that it is contrary to the institution of Christ; let him be anathema.

 

[Ancient1]

The rubrics indicate in some ways where silence should be, for example, after Communion (when in actuality many parish music groups are wailing away like a clanging gongs and a crashing cymbals).

I was in a parish with a wonderful, reverent priest who observed more silence in Mass than I’ve ever experienced and it really added to the meaning.

Most priests sit down for a few brief moments somewhere after the readings. This priest would sit for fully five minutes. Sounds short, but when you’re used to the hysterical pitch of activity and noise at most Masses, 5 minutes of dead silence (no soft organ music either) is long. We regulars were accustomed to it, but visitors would sometimes become alarmed and start whispering, “Did the priest faint or fall asleep?”

Then when he realized he could not control the musicians (a common plight in Catholic and protestant churches apparently), he just told them to shut up entirely during Communion. No Communion or post-Communion hymns. Everyone softly walking up, receiving in an almost monastic atmosphere, and going back to their seats to…wow…pray. People quickly came to appreciate how this enabled them to focus on the Eucharist.

 

[Mintaka]

Anybody who reads church history will quickly find out that the matter of silence being kept by the congregation has a tendency to be important to one generation and not important to another. There have been times when churchmen were hardpressed to keep shops and booths out of the cathedral and in the churchyard, and when livestock wandered churches, and when strolling down the aisles chatting with a friend during Mass was quite normal. I’ve read plenty of Catholic books written in Victorian times, where the author was complaining about the lack of silence in his parish, the continual comings and goings in the pews, and so on.

No, it’s not a function of “old Mass vs. new Mass.” It’s a function of whether people care, or can be convinced to care by their teachers, families, and priests.

And if you’re going to bring up Archbishop Lefebvre, bear in mind that he grew up in the days when the Liturgical Reform Movement was trying hard to make the Mass “more meaningful”, including things like more art and more silence and more frequent Communion. The same Liturgical Reform Movement that morphed into all the “making Mass more meaningful” weirdness of Vatican II.

(And no, that doesn’t make silence evil. It just means that we have to be gentle with human nature, because human nature is wacky.)

 

[englishredrose]

My priest is teaching me silence and just being with God, slowly. silence with God. (though today not been good at all for me) Though on the whole it is now my prefered method of praying when I do.

What do you mean by in the liturgy? We have intercessions and at the end there is a place for our own prayer request. One can be silent with God then if that is what one prefers and if you are used to practicing silence then one really can use any split second to be silent with God

We sing and listen to readings and pray with words. Silence is prayer without words. It can be as noisy as possible around you but your head and your heart and you is with God. You can be as noisy as the noise but you are with God at that split moment. You are aware. Its really nice when that happens and all you need to be is with God.

People make the mistake of needing a church absolutely silent. This isn’t silent prayer. Silent prayer is when you, yourself are just simple being with God. No words, not asking not wanting not listening to what God might be saying to you. Just simply being with him. Its special and for me beats all other prayer styles but all are valid. But is this what you mean by silence in the liturgy.

 

[ProVobis]

People make the mistake of needing a church absolutely silent.

Not to derail the thread but this is only possible at 0 degrees Kelvin.

 

[englishredrose]

Not to derail the thread but this is only possible at 0 degrees Kelvin.

point taken - err me being one of the noisy ones

but people want it

 

[ProVobis]

point taken - err me being one of the noisy ones

but people want it

Depends on what you call it, it seems.

I don’t know how things are in the U.K. but in the U.S. it is no longer a “moment of prayer” but a “moment of silence,” per atheistic pressures. At sporting and other secular events it is very noticeable that this “moment of silence” is very uncomfortable for many. They cheer when it’s over. I’m not kidding.

 

[BettyBoop416]

Most priests sit down for a few brief moments somewhere after the readings. This priest would sit for fully five minutes.

Five minutes? Sorry, but that’s WAY too long. In our parish, if a period of silence goes past one minute people start wondering what’s wrong.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Not to derail the thread but this is only possible at 0 degrees Kelvin.

the more silent, the more you hear the low noises and suppressing those, the even lower noises till you are hearing your own breath which, obviously you may want to suppress at will…

 

[Brendan]

Yet active participation does not preclude the active passivity of silence, stillness and listening: indeed, it demands it. Worshippers are not passive, for instance, when listening to the readings or the homily, or following the prayers of the celebrant, and the chants and music of the liturgy. These are experiences of silence and stillness, but they are in their own way profoundly active. In a culture which neither favors nor fosters meditative quiet, the art of interior listening is learned only with difficulty. Here we see how the liturgy, though it must always be properly inculturated, must also be counter-cultural.

Pope John Paul II - Address to the US Bishops Oct 9, 1998

 

[sacredcow]

The GIRM gives the option of a communion meditation song or silence, however, there have been some clear and strong recommendations from both Rome and our own Bishops to consider the use of silence more often. As I result, our Parish via the Liturgy Committee has decided to repond accordingly and we are foregoing a post-communion-procession song except for maybe once a month. Even though the silence is not mandatory, nor is the song, when we receive such a strong suggestion from our shepherds we cannot ignore it. To me it is all about balance, and I see the bishops trying to encourage a balance in worship. I really like the way they have gone about communicating this.

 

[englishredrose]

I can be noisy and silent when in the right frame of mind.

Silence and being with God is something so simple but yet hard i was told last night wof which I 100% understood. I myelf told the priest that silence is too still. He has managed to teach me that its not too still at all but very peaceful, the silence we have with God. But I guess we have to be in that place on our spiritual development to have done away with words and just be with God because that is what matters. For some of us the words are harder than the silence, the silence with God I mean

People don’t understand inner silence. Silence to them is the room being silent. Not their minds/hearts etc. Our being silent with God and being with him wouldn’t really affect another in the place if they were being noisy. But people on the whole don’t understand.

 

[sacredcow]

I remember a talk by Bishop Sheen where he encountered a man who used to sit in church by the Blessed sacrament every day. he finally asked the guy what he prayed about and the man said : “Nothing. I look at Him and He looks at me.”

Love it!

 

[englishredrose]

I heard a very similar story once. and yes now I throughly understand its meaning. I understood it at the time, but more so now. thanks for that reminder