The silent parts of the TLM - anyone get thrown off track by this?

[Rosewith]

Holy day dreaming?? You’ll have to give me an example of a “holy day dream” in order to get an answer to that one.

 

[CradleCath]

This betrays a very limited grasp of the idea of liturgy. Try reading some of the liturgical classics. Jungmann would be a good place to start.

Your post is rude & I seldom read literature recommended by rude people. However, in this case, I’ve studied parts of Josef Jungmann’s “The Mass of the Roman Rite”. (Btw., this two volume set is for study, not “reading”), & It’s been many years since I looked at any of it… I’m not one who believes that because something is old, it is necessarily good…so I disagree with some of his ideas.

I will recommend some pieces to you, also, though you probably won’t take heed of them…
Start with Pope Pius XII’s Mediator Dei & move on to the Frenchman, Pierre-Francois d’Areres de la Tour…General of the congregation of the Orator during the end of the 17th century. Following are some interesting quotes from the man:

Parisian Oratorian Pierre-François d’Arères de la Tour complained about the Jansenists interpretation of the “liturgy”

‘They do everything to diminish the “cult” of the Blessed Virgin, to weaken the respect due to the Pope. They pride themselves on using only Scripture in their liturgies, and in declaring themselves followers of Christian Antiquity, they frequently quote the canons of that age, boldly criticize everything, attack the legends, visions and miracles of the saints, affect elegance of literary style, valuing only their own productions and despising the works of others, and generally set themselves up as reformers… In the liturgical books being produced today they do not attack Catholic dogma, but **subtly undermine **it, uprooting the tree little by little…"17

And about the “Modernists”:

"Such is the frailty of human nature that involuntarily and without even suspecting it, people are taking on the tastes, fashions, language and idiom of the country and age in which they live… Our century is the age of Anglomania. It is the dominant strain in the agnostic movement, which rails against the superstition of the populace, the credulity of the devout, the excesses of the cult of the Blessed Virgin and the Saints, the despotism of the Pope, the neglect of Sacred Scripture and the Church Fathers, and so on. **They would deprive religion of all its **flesh if they could, leaving just the skeleton. To this end they abolish, polish, simplify, reduce to nothing the little that has been preserved

The last paragraph of your post is petty & pretends knowledge of the inner working of another’s mind. It isn’t worth a reply:

Do you think the priest in the Trid. liturgy is just “moving and repeating words”? As for “holy day dreaming,” I think that some people, ladies particularly, like to have pleasant “Jesus and me” reveries while the priest is “moving and repeating” (inaudibly.) Most of these reveries are unrelated to the actual Liturgy, but who can blame them?

 

[CradleCath]

At the TLM in my city, the whole thing is silent. The priest just comes in and does his thing and you can barely hear a word. Even the readings, assuming he says the readings, are in latin and rather quiet. Eventually they start ringing bells so you know communion is coming soon. Then at the end people say some really fast Hail Mary’s. Is that unusual? I don’t understand why anyone would prefer that to a Ordinary Form mass.

Doesn’t your Church provide Latin/English missalettes??

 

[CradleCath]

I was frustrated when I first started attending a Tridentine parish, because I was lost and confused during the silent parts of the Mass. I voiced my frustration to my priest, and he explained the Mass to me. Maybe you could try speaking to your priest? Also, the more you attend the better it will get. I’ve only been attending for a few months, and it’s already gotten a lot clearer for me. Hang in there!

Good for you. I think that many people don’t realize that, while it’s nice to be reading the words the priest is saying at the same moment he says them…it’s not really necessary. It doesn’t matter if the OP finishes the Canon of the Mass before Father does. What matters is that they are both praying it with a prayerful attitude, that both you & he are offering the innocent victim to God as atonement for our sins, Father’s sins & for the sins of all mankind.

 

[kleary]

I’ve been to the TLM about four times now at two different parishes. There are parts of the Mass that the priest says silently. I always seem to get thrown off track when following the missal because I can’t hear him.

How do others keep track of where you are in the Mass? Is it just time and repetition?

I do love the TLM, though I think I still prefer our wonderfully reverent and beautiful NO at our parish better. But the TLM is certainly growing on me

~Liza

Actually I am not thrown off. Then again I do not try to keep track of the Canon via a missal when the Canon begins. When the Canon begins the book goes on the pew and my attention is directed toward the altar where our Lord is about to appear and be offered in sacrifice by the priest for my sins.

I know when the Canon begins because I can see the priest’s actions in the beginning of it.

I know when we are to pray for those who are alive by seeing the priest bow his head at low mass or by the MC or deacon stepping away from the altar when the priest mentions their names.

I also hear the bells at the Hanc Igitur allerting me that the consecration is about to begin. I know the obvious - when the consecration has taken place- we can all see and hear the bells and genuflections made by the priest-

I know when we are to pray for our dead when the priest bows his head or the MC/Deacon takes a step back from the altar when the priest mentions the names of the dead.

I know when the Canon is almost over by the priest loudly announcing he is also a sinner (Nobis quoque peccatorribus)- and the end when he loudly finishes with “per omnia secula seculorum”.

I love the veil that the silent Canon makes…it is like in the Eastern Rite when the doors of the Iconostasis are closed at that moment.

We need those veils…believe me we do.

Ken