The Sin of Presumption vis a vis stating that one is saved.

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Soutane said:
Is it mortal?
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Was John writing to his readers to sin when he said:
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
(1Jn 5:13 NASB)
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We should be able to have confidence at any given time whether we are saved or not. No one knows whether they are of the elect until they persevere until the end.
 
I certainly agree with your latter statement.I’m not sure I understang your former one.John is not saying "no matter what"and to believe that we have eternal life while recognizing we could forfeit it through sin certainly is NOT the sin of presumption.I’m refering to OSAS i guess.
 
John is fairly clear in what he says. He writes so that we can know we are saved.
 
SyCarl said:
John is fairly clear in what he says. He writes so that we can know we are saved.
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We are saved or we have been given the free gift of the grace of salvastion that thru free will we can reject?
 
Soutane said:
We are saved or we have been given the free gift of the grace of salvastion that thru free will we can reject?
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We should be able to know with confidence at any particular moment that we are saved. We can reject the gift by losing faith. That is our choice. However God also determines who the elect are. I believe that God can decide and still allow freewill, even if we can’t understand how.
 
SyCarl said:
We should be able to know with confidence at any particular moment that we are saved. We can reject the gift by losing faith. That is our choice. However God also determines who the elect are. I believe that God can decide and still allow freewill, even if we can’t understand how.
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The Elect?sounds like calvinism to me which makes a lie of free will
 
Soutane said:
The Elect?sounds like calvinism to me which makes a lie of free will
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Does Jesus Himself not speak of the elect?
"Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; **but for the sake of the elect **those days will be cut short. "Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. "Behold, I have told you in advance. "So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
(Mat 24:22-31 NASB)
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i think that your definition of the elect and Christ’s Differs.SURELY YOU DON,T SUBSCRIBE TO THE SPECIOUS NOTION THAT SOME ARE BORN TO GO TO PERDITION WHICH OTHERS(THE ELECT) ARE HEAVEN BOUND NO MATTER WHAT THEIR STATE OF GRACE. GOD’S GREATEST GIFT fREEDOM OF WILL COUNTS FOR NOUGHT?GOD IS NOT A MONSTER.
 
The Apostle Paul also says this:

'Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.’ II Corinthians 13: 5-6. There are tests of assurance. Consider 1 John for instance.
 
I think our relationship with God is similar to a marital relationship here on Earth. For a marriage to work for a lifetime, we have to be constantly working things out. In a similar manner, I wouldn’t generally just say “I am saved,” but “By the Grace of God I was saved, am being saved, and will be saved.”

Philippians 2:12:
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

peace
 
MyzTek said:
I think our relationship with God is similar to a marital relationship here on Earth. For a marriage to work for a lifetime, we have to be constantly working things out. In a similar manner, I wouldn’t generally just say “I am saved,” but “By the Grace of God I was saved, am being saved, and will be saved.”

Philippians 2:12:
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

peace
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Excellent analogy and a humbling one at that-what can be more giving,striving,demanding,loving and humbling than marriage with it’s perseveering to the end.As we are all the spouse of Christ in some mysterius way I find your analogy oh so brilliant and true.Take your marriage for granted at your peril.Take your faith for granted and you lose everything to perdition.Many,many thanks.,MyzTek
 
Soutane said:
Excellent analogy and a humbling one at that-what can be more giving,striving,demanding,loving and humbling than marriage with it’s perseveering to the end.As we are all the spouse of Christ in some mysterius way I find your analogy oh so brilliant and true.Take your marriage for granted at your peril.Take your faith for granted and you lose everything to perdition.Many,many thanks.,MyzTek
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The marriage of the Church as the bride of Jesus Christ does not happen in this life as I understand the Bible. He has not come for His own yet. Saying “we are all the spouse of Christ” is not biblically correct.
 
brkn1 said:
The marriage of the Church as the bride of Jesus Christ does not happen in this life as I understand the Bible. He has not come for His own yet. Saying “we are all the spouse of Christ” is not biblically correct.
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Brkn, The analogy, means that the Christ is the groom , now residing with the Father and the Spirit at his right hand, working through those Saints in heaven, and His Bride the Church on earth. It is true, our salvation, justification Is a life long process , which won’t be finally realized until we are with him in heaven.:)Peace, Carlan
 
SyCarl said:
We should be able to know with confidence at any particular moment that we are saved. We can reject the gift by losing faith. That is our choice. However God also determines who the elect are. I believe that God can decide and still allow freewill, even if we can’t understand how.
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SyCarl, if we live the life the Father requires of us, fulfill his commandments, Love and serve him, then our hope is that we will persevere in that love till we reach our reward. If for what ever reason we fall back into sin without repentance, and still believe that we because of the OSAS doctrine of some P.C.'s, God will still save us, then you are living the sin of presumption. Not a very safe way to put God to the test, i would say,:eek::p,
God bless us! May we persevere till the end.🙂 Carlan
 
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