The Sola Scriptura Double Standard

[elvisman]

All we can do is hope our opinions match with God’s intent.

NOT true at all.
**What we CAN do is adhere to the Church and it’s teachings to whom Christ gave his guarantee that it would remain in truth. We are held responsible for what we know and the fullness of Christ (the Church) cannot lead us astray. Remember what Jesus said to the pharisees:
**"If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you are saying, ‘We see,’ so your sin remains."

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You’re very welcome.

Even if YOU choose to believe everything the CC teaches, you are ultimately responsible for what you believe, leaving you the final authority for your life. We won’t be able to stand before God and blame anyone for our false beliefs. We’ll only be able to be thankful to the Holy Spirit for any correct beliefs we’ve held.

Read Matthew 23 and please share your interpretation

Here’s one verse…but I’d be very interested in seeing your interpretation of the whole chapter.

**Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled: and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. **.

 

[Dokimas]

Read Matthew 23 and please share your interpretation

Here’s one verse…but I’d be very interested in seeing your interpretation of the whole chapter.

**Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled: and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. **.

Matthew 23:12 is self explanitory. It’s straight forward.

I see why you’re interested in my understanding of the chapter. All I give is my understanding. Interpretation is for the Holy Spirit. The best I can hope is that I’m in ‘tune’ with Him.

I’ll give Matthew 23 some thought. When I get some time and if I remember, I’ll share some thoughts about the passage.

Maybe you should start a new thread.

 

[TouchedByHost]

so where in scripture does it say scripture is the ultimate authority? ( leaving aside possible idolatry related conclusions )

Nowhere does the Scripture say that it is the ultimate authority. Even so, It simply cannot testify by Itself since any book can claim to be the final authority and it becomes the final authority?!?

Just a side note:
The Bible is the Word of God, but the Word of God is not just the Bible.

God Bless.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Matthew 23:12 is self explanitory. It’s straight forward.

I see why you’re interested in my understanding of the chapter. All I give is my understanding. Interpretation is for the Holy Spirit. The best I can hope is that I’m in ‘tune’ with Him.

I’ll give Matthew 23 some thought. When I get some time and if I remember, I’ll share some thoughts about the passage.

Maybe you should start a new thread.

Christ was teaching the people to do as the spiritual authorities on earth told them, knowing He was going to build His authoritative Church, and goes on by warning the scribes and Pharisees with a list of ‘woes’ for their sinful actions. Just as He instructed the people to listen to those that sat in the chair of Moses, showing confidence that God’s truth could be protected even through sinful men, we can take instruction to listen to those that sit in the chair of Peter and leave judgment on those to Christ.

With all confidence and faith, we entrust ourselves to that which Christ built, that which Christ chose and appointed/annointed the authority over what Christ built, that which wrote the God inspired scriptures, that which preserved those scriptures through generation after generation, that which received the promise of the Holy Spirit’s guidance, that is His Church.

As I recommended, read John chapter 13 onward and see who the audience is to what Christ spoke. There were times Christ spoke to everyone, the multitudes, and times He spoke to those He chose and appointed/annointed. How can someone take instructions He gave those He set in the Church and apply those instructions to themselves?

1Co 12:28 And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors: after that miracles: then the graces of healings, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors?
1Co 12:30 Are all workers of miracles? Have all the grace of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

There are NO examples in scriptures of anyone ‘appointing’ themself as an authority in His Church. How does this apply to this topic? It is assuming an authority to interpret His truth for yourself to, as you say, hope to be in tune with Him. He gave us an authoritative Church to give us instruction.

Scriptures give us no examples of anyone receiving instructions to leave what He established and start over. Man cannot do better than what Christ had already done.

 

[Dokimas]

Christ was teaching the people to do as the spiritual authorities on earth told them, knowing He was going to build His authoritative Church, and goes on by warning the scribes and Pharisees with a list of ‘woes’ for their sinful actions. Just as He instructed the people to listen to those that sat in the chair of Moses, showing confidence that God’s truth could be protected even through sinful men, we can take instruction to listen to those that sit in the chair of Peter and leave judgment on those to Christ.

With all confidence and faith, we entrust ourselves to that which Christ built, that which Christ chose and appointed/annointed the authority over what Christ built, that which wrote the God inspired scriptures, that which preserved those scriptures through generation after generation, that which received the promise of the Holy Spirit’s guidance.

As I recommended, read John chapter 13 onward and see who the audience is to what Christ spoke. There were times Christ spoke to everyone, the multitudes, and times He spoke to those He chose and appointed/annointed. How can someone take instructions He gave those He set in the Church and apply those instructions to themselves?

There are NO examples in scriptures of anyone ‘appointing’ themself as an authority in His Church. How does this apply to this topic? It is assuming an authority to interpret His truth for yourself to, as you say, hope to be in tune with Him. He gave us an authoritative Church to give us instruction.

Those verses you site are wonderful with great meaning. I disagree with you that the only church that fulfills the verses is the CC.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Those verses you site are wonderful with great meaning. I disagree with you that the only church that fulfills the verses is the CC.

Then you tell me which is the one Church that Christ started? It seems to me to be a lack of faith to assume that a Church Christ started could not survive the generations after generations, even with the involvment of sinful men. Sadly, what we have now is the body of Christ divided. Dig through history and tell me which Churches survived hundreds and hundreds of years. For me, Protestantism is placing your faith in Christ in the hands of men who think they can build and maintain a Church better than Christ Himself. Christ started ONE Church, with the same mind and judgment, the same doctrines.

 

[PbloPicasso]

Please explain.

I’m surprised that you’ve never heard that saying. I was kidding around.
When I wrote that to you, I was thinking about how relativistic it sounded. It was just being funny. I wrote this long wordy thing and you replied with a short sentence with vague meaning. Vague to me, anyhow.

It reminded me of an conversation with an old friend I haven’t seen since high school, now a principal and a practicing homosexual. He responded to something that is normal in my world with “that’s your reality”, which is relative philosophy. I responded to him by saying “you do realize that there is such a thing as objective truth”. I can’t remember what it was about without looking, but this is the kind of thinking that has entered the world.

 

[pablope]

There are legitimate rebuttals for all of the catholic positions that are disputed by protestants. Sola Scriptura is not a hypocritical basis for bible study, it does not use tradition, it uses history and *philology * instead.

I am very much turned off by the Catholic Church is always right attitude prevalent on this forum.

 

[pablope]

You’re very welcome.

Even if YOU choose to believe everything the CC teaches, you are ultimately responsible for what you believe, leaving you the final authority for your life. We won’t be able to stand before God and blame anyone for our false beliefs. We’ll only be able to be thankful to the Holy Spirit for any correct beliefs we’ve held.

Truly, I do not know whether i will or be ? You are talking about free will here, are you not.

But the question stil remains, where do we learn those beliefs from? From an the authoritative church, right? Which church? Since you do not accept the CC, which of the 30000 protestant denoms is it?

 

[Dokimas]

Then you tell me which is the one Church that Christ started? It seems to me to be a lack of faith to assume that a Church Christ started could not survive the generations after generations, even with the involvment of sinful men. Sadly, what we have now is the body of Christ divided. Dig through history and tell me which Churches survived hundreds and hundreds of years. For me, Protestantism is placing your faith in Christ in the hands of men who think they can build and maintain a Church better than Christ Himself. Christ started ONE Church, with the same mind and judgment, the same doctrines.

I can’t give you a name. However, it is made up of ALL who make up the Body of Christ.

The church Jesus founded has survived by His grace and mercy. It’s far bigger than you know.

There’s religions older than the CC. Does that mean they are God’s religions? No. Time has little to nothing to do with it.

Your comment about protestantism and faith seems to fit you, IMO. Looks like we’re all in this together.

Don’t look now, but the CC isn’t as united as you think. Which does not negate God using it. God is in the business of using the weak, the broke, the lame, the downtrodden to bring glory to Himself and a lost soul to Himself. That’s part of the wonder of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He uses the likes of each one who will call upon His Name (Nature, Who He is - the Great I AM).

 

[Dokimas]

I’m surprised that you’ve never heard that saying. I was kidding around.
When I wrote that to you, I was thinking about how relativistic it sounded. It was just being funny. I wrote this long wordy thing and you replied with a short sentence with vague meaning. Vague to me, anyhow.

It reminded me of an conversation with an old friend I haven’t seen since high school, now a principal and a practicing homosexual. He responded to something that is normal in my world with “that’s your reality”, which is relative philosophy. I responded to him by saying “you do realize that there is such a thing as objective truth”. I can’t remember what it was about without looking, but this is the kind of thinking that has entered the world.

I do not hold to ‘relative philosophy’. I understand and am greatful for the Objective Truth of God and His Word. Jesus IS the embodiment of OT, IMO. Flesh passes away, the world as we know it passes away, God’s Word is forever - the length, the breth, the height of OT.

I’m sorry I missed your humor. I love good humor, the sillier, the dryer the better. I love our English language for it’s easy of becoming puns.

 

[Dokimas]

Truly, I do not know whether i will or be ? You are talking about free will here, are you not.

But the question stil remains, where do we learn those beliefs from? From an the authoritative church, right? Which church? Since you do not accept the CC, which of the 30000 protestant denoms is it?

It’s not as complicated as you make it. In fact it’s not complicated at all.

God wants to fill an open heart. He’s given us His written Word to give testimony of the Living Word and has given His Spirit to help us understand according to our capacity to understand and willingness to humbly submit to His Objective Truth.

I’ve learned from teachings of catholics and non-catholic Christian teachers. I’ve learn from the Bible and from fellowship with fellow Christians.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I can’t give you a name. However, it is made up of ALL who make up the Body of Christ.

I do not agree that Christ started His house divided by doctrines.

Don’t look now, but the CC isn’t as united as you think. Which does not negate God using it. God is in the business of using the weak, the broke, the lame, the downtrodden to bring glory to Himself and a lost soul to Himself. That’s part of the wonder of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He uses the likes of each one who will call upon His Name (Nature, Who He is - the Great I AM).

The Church is one, the Church is united. People are not. You are looking at people to judge what is His and what is not. You are looking at people to justify the denominations of Protestantism and ‘attack’ Catholicism.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It’s not as complicated as you make it. In fact it’s not complicated at all.

God wants to fill an open heart. He’s given us His written Word to give testimony of the Living Word and has given His Spirit to help us understand according to our capacity to understand and willingness to humbly submit to His Objective Truth.

I’ve learned from teachings of catholics and non-catholic Christian teachers. I’ve learn from the Bible and from fellowship with fellow Christians.

God did not leave man to understand according to their own capacities. That’s individualism. God built an authoritative Church to teach a unified message.

 

[Dokimas]

I do not agree that Christ started His house divided by doctrines.

The church is people, not doctrine. People disagree sometimes.

The Church is one, the Church is united. People are not. You are looking at people to judge what is His and what is not. You are looking at people to justify the denominations of Protestantism and ‘attack’ Catholicism.

The church is people so it will never be 100% united until Heaven, IMO.

I don’t judge Jesus’ church by His people. He is the Judge.

If what I do is defined by you as ‘attacking’ catholicism, you must be trying to destroy all non-catholic Christians. I do NOT try to justify anyone, much less myself. Take a long look in the mirror.

 

[Dokimas]

God did not leave man to understand according to their own capacities. That’s individualism. God built an authoritative Church to teach a unified message.

Thank you for your opinion, but what does that have to do with the OP? I’m missing something.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The church is people, not doctrine. People disagree sometimes.

The church is people so it will never be 100% united until Heaven, IMO.

I don’t judge Jesus’ church by His people. He is the Judge.

If what I do is defined by you as ‘attacking’ catholicism, you must be trying to destroy all non-catholic Christians. I do NOT try to justify anyone, much less myself. Take a long look in the mirror.

Oh please show me in scriptures where it’s taught to be permissible to disagree over Church matters?

You stated the CC is not as unified as I might think, yet it’s doctrines are one. The people are not, yet they keep coming to be taught. Others stand outside and say look, the people don’t agree on everything, therefore we can go start our own Church and not agree with anyone else. It’s a house divided Doki and you keep saying it’s ok, but scriptures say one mind and one judgment and to avoid those who create dissensions.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Thank you for your opinion, but what does that have to do with the OP? I’m missing something.

You present your views without scriptures or supporting documentation and then try to accuse me of being off topic?

 

[PbloPicasso]

I’m sorry I missed your humor. I love good humor, the sillier, the dryer the better. I love our English language for it’s easy of becoming puns.