The Soul and the Brain

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COPLAND_3

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I am interested in how the Church understands the soul in relation to the brain. As I read Aquinas it appears as if he understood the soul to do the same functions as how we know the brain to do (though I could be wrong or misunderstanding him). I wonder how long it was till they understood the purpose of the brain.

When I think about it, it seems as if our souls are hindered to the limitations of the brain due to the fall in Gen. The soul would seem to be a big part of our intellect, but it seems to have to cooperate with the brain.

Plus, I am curious if there is a Catholic understanding to how our souls look. I understand that they are invisible to the corpreal eye but what about how they look to those in the spirit? Will we look like ourselves.

I understand that these are speculative things, but I am interested in some insight (concise) from the Church or the saints. I have been reading Aquinas till my eyes are about to go crossed, so if there is any way to come up with some simple explanations then I would be truly grateful.
 
COPLAND_3 said:
I am interested in how the Church understands the soul in relation to the brain. As I read Aquinas it appears as if he understood the soul to do the same functions as how we know the brain to do (though I could be wrong or misunderstanding him). I wonder how long it was till they understood the purpose of the brain.

When I think about it, it seems as if our souls are hindered to the limitations of the brain due to the fall in Gen. The soul would seem to be a big part of our intellect, but it seems to have to cooperate with the brain.
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The body depends on the animation of the soul, as does any other living entity. The soul, however, does not depend on the body. During life on earth, while the body and soul are united, they must cooperate with each other in function.

I know you’re probably sick of reading, but you should consult the following tract on Faculties of the Soul, which discusses the function of the intellect in relation to the soul.

oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Faculties_of_the_Soul
COPLAND_3 said:
Plus, I am curious if there is a Catholic understanding to how our souls look. I understand that they are invisible to the corpreal eye but what about how they look to those in the spirit? Will we look like ourselves.
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Souls don’t “look” like anything. All spirit is immaterial and supernatural. Therefore, even to other spirit, our souls have no appearance and so they bear no semblance to our corporeal appearances.

I hope that helps clear things up for you.
 
As for being able to see the souls in Heaven, St. John said he saw them, Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held

And the rich man and Lazarus saw each other in Hades. There has to be some sort of image to be recognized.

I don’t mean to argue, I know you are trying to help. I am trying to piece some things together in order to give answers to my son who is a very deep thinker. Oftentimes movies will show a soul coming out of a body and it looks like the body it leaves, and that is what he is questioning.
 
COPLAND_3 said:
As for being able to see the souls in Heaven, St. John said he saw them, Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held
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What is experienced or seen in a revelation is often different from the way things actually are. For example, angels, being pure spirit, do not have human bodies but in revelations, people can witness to having seen an angel with a human appearance.

The same goes for what was written by John in Revelation, as that text is understood to have been a revelation to him.

Just to bring this a little further, look at the line immediately following verse 9:[T]hey cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth” (Revelation 6:10)?
Well obviously, souls do not have mouths or tongues or larynges because those are qualities of a human body. Nevertheless, they are necessary for crying “out with a loud voice.”

That would be a clue that perhaps this text is not to be taken with absolute literality in meaning.
COPLAND_3 said:
And the rich man and Lazarus saw each other in Hades. There has to be some sort of image to be recognized.
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For one, the account of the Rich Man and Lazarus is called the “Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man.” It is easy to miss the forest for the trees, as they say, in trying to see a literal meaning in a parable meant to be taken figuratively. There may be details associated with parables that simply do not hold true to a literal standard.

Now, I’m not saying that we will not be able to love and recognize one another when we are in Heaven. But why must the recognition be ocular?
COPLAND_3 said:
I don’t mean to argue, I know you are trying to help. I am trying to piece some things together in order to give answers to my son who is a very deep thinker. Oftentimes movies will show a soul coming out of a body and it looks like the body it leaves, and that is what he is questioning.
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No, you’re absolutely fine. But yeah, it doesn’t work that way. I tend to shy away from Holywood’s depictions of theology. 😛
 
No, you’re absolutely fine. But yeah, it doesn’t work that way. I tend to shy away from Holywood’s depictions of theology.
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Absolutely! I am only trying to give him (my son) a sound explanation to his preception. By no means do I feel Hollywood has any credibility.👍
 
The brain is a device the soul uses as a port connecting it to the body. The mind-body/soul-body connection is the brain and nervous system and all the hormone-releasing glands. I didn’t get that from the Catechism. I just assumed it. Am I right?
 
survive said:
The brain is a device the soul uses as a port connecting it to the body. The mind-body/soul-body connection is the brain and nervous system and all the hormone-releasing glands. I didn’t get that from the Catechism. I just assumed it. Am I right?
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That’s pretty much my understanding too. That is what I am interested in getting verification on through Church teaching.
 
The soul (which is spirit) is the animating principle of the entire body, not just of the brain. Although the soul animates the entire body, it does not occupy space, again because it is a spiritual entity.

Intellect (or mind) and Will are faculties of the soul. The intellect is able to manipulate ideas and concepts.

But how do concepts get from the body to the soul? That is more speculative.

One might consider the entire sensory system as an (name removed by moderator)ut system to the brain, and the brain as a coordinating system for those (name removed by moderator)uts. But to get into the (immaterial) mind, all matter must be stripped from the (name removed by moderator)ut, leaving only the idea. That part can ‘get into’ the mind, which is a faculty of the soul. The process of removing material components from sensory (name removed by moderator)ut is called abstraction.
 
aquinas taught that the powers associated with animal souls operate through corporeal organs. If memory serves and I probably should have looked it up before posting, Aquinas taught that the intellect did not.
A kind of proof that the human soul is from God and immortal and the animal soul is from the earth and …not.🙂
 
JimG said:
One might consider the entire sensory system as an (name removed by moderator)ut system to the brain, and the brain as a coordinating system for those (name removed by moderator)uts. But to get into the (immaterial) mind, all matter must be stripped from the (name removed by moderator)ut, leaving only the idea. That part can ‘get into’ the mind, which is a faculty of the soul. The process of removing material components from sensory (name removed by moderator)ut is called abstraction.
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It doesn’t make sense to me that the human brain receives “images” of things as they actually are.

I think that the brain receives mathematical codes, equations or markers, which represent various aspects of objective reality. I also believe that when we receive these codes they are automatically converted into the images they represent, by our perceptive intellect; which is then acted upon by our will. What I’m trying to say is that the soul has an innate capacity to perceive the true reality of the code. If we allow for the existence of a transcendent reality of ideas which relate in some way to the various codes we receive, then perhaps the mind automatically matches these ideas with the various binary codes that our brains accept; which then appears to us as the objective reality from which the code was taken.

I know its crazy; but hey, how else does the brain know how to convert “light energy” in to consistent experiences in such a coherent manner?

Any comments? What do you think of my idea?
 
ok found it whew!
Summa article 77 question 5

I answer that, The subject of operative power is that which is able to operate, for every accident denominates its proper subject. Now the same is that which is able to operate, and that which does operate. Wherefore the “subject of power” is of necessity “the subject of operation,” as again the Philosopher says in the beginning of De Somno et Vigilia. **Now, it is clear from what we have said above (75, 2,3; 76, 1, ad 1), that some operations of the soul are performed without a corporeal organ, as understanding and will. Hence the powers of these operations are in the soul as their subject. **But some operations of the soul are performed by means of corporeal organs; as sight by the eye, and hearing by the ear. And so it is with all the other operations of the nutritive and sensitive parts. Therefore the powers which are the principles of these operations have their subject in the composite, and not in the soul alone.
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Although I believe that our earthly lives weren’t meant to end in seperation of body and soul so before the fall there would be more evidence of higher operations not of the body or even faculties buried in the limitations of the body after the fall as you speculated.IMHO
 
MindOverMatter said:
It doesn’t make sense to me that the human brain receives “images” of things as they actually are.

I think that the brain receives mathematical codes, equations or markers, which represent various aspects of objective reality. I also believe that when we receive these codes they are automatically converted into the images they represent, by our perceptive intellect; which is then acted upon by our will. What I’m trying to say is that the soul has an innate capacity to perceive the true reality of the code. If we allow for the existence of a transcendent reality of ideas which relate in some way to the various codes we receive, then perhaps the mind automatically matches these ideas with the various binary codes that our brains accept; which then appears to us as the objective reality from which the code was taken.

I know its crazy; but hey, how else does the brain know how to convert “light energy” in to consistent experiences in such a coherent manner?
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the reality of the code. Could you call that it’s essence?
 
MindOverMatter said:
🙂
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The terms you use are very ecumenical. 🙂 I haven’t come across the brains transmittance of information in binary code before. I’m trying to imagine a synapse as we speak and doggnonit if I can’t construct anything beyond circuitry myself. The conduit of info is electrical as in circuitry just transmitted from point a to point b organically rather that through some other conductive material.
 
I’ve read that the interface between matter and I guess form is vibrations at various frequencies are the essence/reality of binary code of atoms. Helium perhaps a frequency at the starting end of the scale.
 
MindOverMatter said:
What does ecumenical mean?
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Ecumenical is a term used for the Church’s effort to relate to other faith’s. the ecumenical movement seeks language and terms that can be more easily understood. It has a wider meaning when attached to the use of terms since many professions and technologies use terms particular to them technical terms used in one or other area in order to relate concepts otherwise only known by theologians could be called ecumenical
 
Benadam said:
I’ve read that the interface between matter and I guess form is vibrations at various frequencies are the essence/reality of binary code of atoms. Helium perhaps a frequency at the starting end of the scale.
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I’m finding it a bit difficult to grasp exactly what your saying here. I don’t mean to be rude, but is it possible for you break it down into more digestible chunks? Please. 🙂
 
Benadam said:
Ecumenical is a term used for the Church’s effort to relate to other faith’s. the ecumenical movement seeks language and terms that can be more easily understood. It has a wider meaning when attached to the use of terms since many professions and technologies use terms particular to them technical terms used in one or other area in order to relate concepts otherwise only known by theologians could be called ecumenical
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Thanks. So you think that my idea unites theology and science in a positive way? Or have i miss read you?
 
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