The Soul and the Brain

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scameter18

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I am curious about the Catholic Church’s position on the relation of the brain and the soul. There have been many different views on this, by Catholics and scientists, throughout history, ranging from that there is no soul, just the brain, to the brain is essentially irrelevant and all psychological functions are based in the soul. What view does the Church espouse regarding this topic, and/or what is your personal opinion on it? 🙂
 
scameter18 said:
I am curious about the Catholic Church’s position on the relation of the brain and the soul. There have been many different views on this, by Catholics and scientists, throughout history, ranging from that there is no soul, just the brain, to the brain is essentially irrelevant and all psychological functions are based in the soul. What view does the Church espouse regarding this topic, and/or what is your personal opinion on it? 🙂
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Personal opinion; I am not a doctor:

The brain is an organ of your body. The Soul, or mind (the 2 terms are essentially sysnonyms-- mind describes “soulish” processes without being a religious sounding word), is a “process” that resides mostly in the brain (just as seeing is a process that takes place using the eyes and movement is a process that uses the limbs). In addition to “soulish” activities such as thinking and knowing, the brain also operates our senses, limbs, and body functions such as muscle tone and breathing.

Without a functioning brain, the body will not live and the Soul will depart (to a Spiritual Body in eternity.) If your head is damaged, your “soulish” processes will be impaired, just as damaged eardrums do not hear well, and injured limbs do not move nimbly. Sometimes our brain’s reserve capacity will allow these processes to be fully recovered; but, in the end, the body stops working and the Soul goes into abeyance in this world, to awaken to eternity in its Spiritual Body; because Soul and brain are so closely associated that one does not function without the other.

ICXC NIKA.
 
My understanding is that ensoulment happens immediately after fertilization, whereas the brain isn’t present until the fetus is more further developed.
 
I once read that the will is not in the brain. By stimulating various areas of the brain scientists can make various things occur; such as moving an arm. But the person knows that that was not their will but an action imposed on them. They have not found a way to stimulate the will; that is make a person believe that the motion was of their own volition.

My thought is that, in computer terms, the brain has the memory banks and (name removed by moderator)ut/output devices. The CPU is in the soul. Just my speculation. I can cite no reference or authority.}
 
Joe_Kelley said:
I once read that the will is not in the brain. By stimulating various areas of the brain scientists can make various things occur; such as moving an arm. But the person knows that that was not their will but an action imposed on them. They have not found a way to stimulate the will; that is make a person believe that the motion was of their own volition.

My thought is that, in computer terms, the brain has the memory banks and (name removed by moderator)ut/output devices. The CPU is in the soul. [Just my speculation. I can cite no reference or authority.}
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And yet Alcohol changes my will quite a bit, if only temporarily.
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tonyrey said:
It interferes with the normal functioning of your brain but does it change you? Where exactly is your will located?
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It changes what the drinker “does” and “wants” while it remains in the blood; what else is “will”?
 
Joe_Kelley said:
I once read that the will is not in the brain. By stimulating various areas of the brain scientists can make various things occur; such as moving an arm. But the person knows that that was not their will but an action imposed on them. They have not found a way to stimulate the will; that is make a person believe that the motion was of their own volition.
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All that proves is that the cells for “will” and those for limb control are physically separated.
My thought is that, in computer terms, the brain has the memory banks and (name removed by moderator)ut/output devices. The CPU is in the soul. [Just my speculation. I can cite no reference or authority.}
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Theologically, memory and intellect are just as “soulish” as will. A “will” that does not know what to want isn’t much of anything.
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My personal opinion and understanding is that the Soul interacts (somehow?) with the Brain. An anology in computer processing terms is that the brain is the hardware and the boul is the software. Damage the hardware and the software will behave differently.
 
Well, if “soul” is essentially the actions of the brain, like hearing comes from the ears and movement from the limbs, then wouldn’t the soul merely be electricity, which is what conducts the activities of the brain?
 
scameter18 said:
Well, if “soul” is essentially the actions of the brain, like hearing comes from the ears and movement from the limbs, then wouldn’t the soul merely be electricity, which is what conducts the activities of the brain?
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No, not electricity; rather, the process that directs the flow of electrical energy. Electrical energy crashing through ones head, without direction, is not human life; it is a seizure or electrocution, depending on where the energy came from. But with direction, that energy writes memories, reads them, sees light, hears sound, draws breath and moves the limbs. That process is not itself electrical energy, but it converts that energy to human life. IMNAAHO, this can be described as “soul.”
 
GEddie said:
No, not electricity; rather, the process that directs the flow of electrical energy. Electrical energy crashing through ones head, without direction, is not human life; it is a seizure or electrocution, depending on where the energy came from. But with direction, that energy writes memories, reads them, sees light, hears sound, draws breath and moves the limbs. That process is not itself electrical energy, but it converts that energy to human life. IMNAAHO, this can be described as “soul.”
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The process of electrical communication is actually pretty well understood.

youtube.com/watch?v=ysDGX6bOgAw

What is not completely understood, is how the brain organizes the neuron connections into meaning. The gist though is that we are born with many many more connections, and neuron connections are dropped as we grow older and learn (and some are also created but from what I’ve read they are mostly dropped) thus allowing adaptation to surroundings. How we form complex thought, imagination, and conciousness from such a network of connections is something of a holy grail (so to speak) currently that we are actively researching - not because it’s thought to be seperate from the physical connections and organization, but because those aspects themselves (imagination, conciousness, etc) are not entirely understood.
 
liquidpele said:
How we form complex thought, imagination, and conciousness from such a network of connections is something of a holy grail (so to speak) currently that we are actively researching - not because it’s thought to be seperate from the physical connections and organization, but because those aspects themselves (imagination, conciousness, etc) are not entirely understood.
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Why do you assume complex thought, imagination and consciousness can be explained by physical connections and organization? What does the organizing?
 
As the ensoulment of fertilized eggs shows, the soul is attached to more than just the brain. I think the soul is life itself, and is attached to the entire body while the body is alive. The soul is the difference between a live human being, and a dead human being. For example, consider a dead body that is attached to life support machines, where every cell of that dead human being is still alive, yet the whole is not, because the soul is missing.

The soul is the animating force that turns a body mass of individually alive cells into a single human being who is alive.
 
tonyrey said:
Why do you assume complex thought, imagination and consciousness can be explained by physical connections and organization? What does the organizing?
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Because my thoughts, imagination, and conviousness are effected by drugs and alcohol, thus it seems they would be physical in nature. Also, did you miss this sentence from the post you quoted?
What is not completely understood, is how the brain organizes the neuron connections into meaning.
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However, I lied a little bit there. Really, it’s just myself that does not completely understand it. I’ve read a little on the subject, but I’m certainly no expect, so it may be well understood in neurology, I don’t know. A quick google search shows there have been advancements in this area though:

kavlifoundation.org/neuroscience-citation
 
Just_Lurking said:
As the ensoulment of fertilized eggs shows, the soul is attached to more than just the brain. I think the soul is life itself, and is attached to the entire body while the body is alive. The soul is the difference between a live human being, and a dead human being. For example, consider a dead body that is attached to life support machines, where every cell of that dead human being is still alive, yet the whole is not, because the soul is missing.
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You have a point in your first sentence. Clearly the “soul” inhabits more than just the head, although more active there. Certainly the spinal cord, organs and limbs also have “soul”. If “soul” expressed a form it would be the human form.

However, I take issue with your dead-body example. If all the bodycells are alive, it is not a dead body, but an unconscious one. If it would go into death without the machines, then some of the cells, in the brain, spinal cord, or both are dead or dying (in which case “soul” is packing to leave town).
The soul is the animating force that turns a body mass of individually alive cells into a single human being who is alive.
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Good definition, more succinct than mine. ICXC NIKA.
 
GEddie said:
All that proves is that the cells for “will” and those for limb control are physically separated.

. . .
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Then why can’t they activate them like they activate those for limb control?
 
Joe_Kelley said:
Then why can’t they activate them like they activate those for limb control?
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Your question is a little misguided. The pathways in the brain build memory, so activating them with electrodes only enhances memory or causes signals to be sent to large general areas like muscles. A cool article on the memory aspect is here:

medpagetoday.com/Neurology/GeneralNeurology/8151

Basically, if you don’t constantly re-think about stuff, the neural pathways decay from non-use. However, if you stimulate them (which strengthens them) then it improves the memory or function that was there.

For things like “will” and emotion, there is more too it than just one area of the brain. That’s why we use drugs for such things - they effect the whole brain. Anti-depressants literally help the chemicals move between synapses by either inhibiting or increasing certain chemicals. The same effect is what gives Cocaine its “high” and makes it so addictive.

serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1704

Hope that helps.
 
liquidpele said:
Because my thoughts, imagination, and consciousness are affected by drugs and alcohol, thus it seems they would be physical in nature.
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“affected” is the significant word". It shows that TIC are related to physical events but not caused by them.
I’ve read a little on the subject, but I’m certainly no expect, so it may be well understood in neurology, I don’t know. A quick google search shows there have been advancements in this area though:kavlifoundation.org/neuroscience-citation
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The fact that addiction has physical causes does not imply that all mental activity has physical causes. If it did, you (and I and everyone else) would have no control over our thoughts or anything else!
 
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