The Soul

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Faith1960

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  1. I was reading about the soul on Catholic Encyclopedia where it states: “The soul may be defined as the ultimate internal principle by which we think, feel, and will, and by which our bodies are animated.”
    What becomes of the soul when a person is brain dead or in a vegetative state, when they’re unable to think, feel or exercise their will? Has their soul left the body?
  2. Humans have an intellect but what about animals, some of whom are clearly highly intelligent?
 
Faith1960 said:
  1. I was reading about the soul on Catholic Encyclopedia where it states: “The soul may be defined as the ultimate internal principle by which we think, feel, and will, and by which our bodies are animated.”
    What becomes of the soul when a person is brain dead or in a vegetative state, when they’re unable to think, feel or exercise their will? Has their soul left the body?
  2. Humans have an intellect but what about animals, some of whom are clearly highly intelligent?
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1/ The soul paired with the body in a natural duo waits patiently to do the will of God, and animates the body to the extent of the capability of that body.

2/ The souls of plants and animals only serve for animation, and it perishes with the natural form of that life.

Andy
 
Faith1960 said:
  1. Humans have an intellect but what about animals, some of whom are clearly highly intelligent?
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They don’t have proper intelligence because they don’t have reason. Ultimately, they may be capable of many sophisticated things (look at a bird’s nest), but they don’t have abstract thought. Every bird’s nest from a certain species of bird looks exactly the same. While they do communicate, they do not have actual language, etc.

I highly recommend you read all of Aristotle’s De Anima, and for the Thomistic doctrine, I recommend (not only De Anima [Philosophical Psychology] but all the works of) Dr. Denis McInerny from Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary. See the following link for more details:
store.fraternitypublications.com/philosophy.html.
 
AndyF said:
1/ The soul paired with the body in a natural duo waits patiently to do the will of God, and animates the body to the extent of the capability of that body.

Andy
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But what if that body is incapable of anything, even thought? It’s just a shell being kept alive by machines?
 
Faith1960 said:
  1. I was reading about the soul on Catholic Encyclopedia where it states: “The soul may be defined as the ultimate internal principle by which we think, feel, and will, and by which our bodies are animated.”
    What becomes of the soul when a person is brain dead or in a vegetative state, when they’re unable to think, feel or exercise their will? Has their soul left the body?
  2. Humans have an intellect but what about animals, some of whom are clearly highly intelligent?
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  1. No. The soul is separated from the body only by death. The soul is the animating principle of the body. If the body is damaged, the higher functions of the soul may not be able to be felt in the bodily senses. (However, we can not really know the extent of higher functions from an internal viewpoint. Some people who have recovered from comas have reported being conscious the whole time.)
  2. Animal intelligence is different in kind that human intellect. It does not rise to the level of self reflection. (I might revise this viewpoint upon reading the first book authored by a dolphin.)
 
JimG said:
(I might revise this viewpoint upon reading the first book authored by a dolphin.)
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The smartest dolphin I’ve ever heard of was Flipper, but if I’m not mistaken, he was not a writer. 😃
 
Wow, claiming superiority over dolphins because they don’t write novels or post on CAF (in English I assume).

Let’s see you try to navigate by echo-location. Can’t do it? Wow, you must be inferior.

This is all the result of the exalted status the Church affords to “man”.

I’m still waiting if I can pin down an official answer on what species the Church includes in its definition of “man”.
 
redhen said:
Wow, claiming superiority over dolphins because they don’t write novels or post on CAF (in English I assume).

Let’s see you try to navigate by echo-location. Can’t do it? Wow, you must be inferior.

This is all the result of the exalted status the Church affords to “man”.

I’m still waiting if I can pin down an official answer on what species the Church includes in its definition of “man”.
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That would be homo sapiens, or human beings. I’ll let the dolphins speak for themselves. But that would require the ability for abstract thought.

Humans do use echo-location for some things, although its not an aspect of our biology.
 
JimG said:
That would be homo sapiens, or human beings.
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Can you point me to a document that pronounces this? I mean specifically our species, homo sapiens sapiens, and not any other archaic hominds.
 
redhen said:
Can you point me to a document that pronounces this? I mean specifically our species, homo sapiens sapiens, and not any other archaic hominds.
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Homo sapiens neanderthalensis might also be included.
 
Ahimsa said:
Homo sapiens neanderthalensis might also be included.
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God made us self determined creatures. Each one of us is a species in of our selves. A species within a species. This characteristic forms a defining boundary for us as a species on earth.
 
Benadam said:
God made us self determined creatures. Each one of us is a species in of our selves. A species within a species. This characteristic forms a defining boundary for us as a species on earth.
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So, you are Homo sapiens benadamensis?
 
redhen said:
Can you point me to a document that pronounces this? I mean specifically our species, homo sapiens sapiens, and not any other archaic hominds.
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The Church uses the generic term “man” rather than any biological definition, just as in the Book of Genesis recites that “God created man in his own image.”

Are you seriously contending that the Church ought to be concerned that other creatures may be in need of salvation? Do the dolphins need baptism? Are they culpable for immoral acts?
 
Faith1960 said:
  1. I was reading about the soul on Catholic Encyclopedia where it states: “The soul may be defined as the ultimate internal principle by which we think, feel, and will, and by which our bodies are animated.”
    What becomes of the soul when a person is brain dead or in a vegetative state, when they’re unable to think, feel or exercise their will? Has their soul left the body?
  2. Humans have an intellect but what about animals, some of whom are clearly highly intelligent?
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Human beings have the capability to commit moral or immoral acts. Humans can reflect on their acts. The soul stays with the body until death, not brain death, which is often misunderstood, or as explained that people in a coma may hear everything going on around them. This has been reported by Belgian scientists concerning a man who was thought to be in a vegatative state. See:
current.com/news/91526144_man-trapped-in-coma-for-23-years-was-conscious-for-entire-time.htm

(There are videos as well).

Animals cannot make moral choices or reflect on their actions.
 
Faith1960 said:
What becomes of the soul when a person is brain dead or in a vegetative state, when they’re unable to think, feel or exercise their will? Has their soul left the body?
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CCC 365
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The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body: i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.
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JimG said:
Are you seriously contending that the Church ought to be concerned that other creatures may be in need of salvation? Do the dolphins need baptism? Are they culpable for immoral acts?
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It would seem that other creatures, indeed, Creation itself, are/is awaiting salvation:

Romans, chapter 8:
*
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.*
 
JimG said:
The Church uses the generic term “man” rather than any biological definition, just as in the Book of Genesis recites that “God created man in his own image.”
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So even though the Church has allowed room for belief in macro-evolution, they still have not decided which hominids have/had souls. Is it not possible that other archaic hominids had souls, i.e. Homo floresiensis, which only went extinct 12,000 years ago?
Are you seriously contending that the Church ought to be concerned that other creatures may be in need of salvation? Do the dolphins need baptism?
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Possibly creatures such as the archaic hominids I mentioned.
Are they culpable for immoral acts?
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In the field of ethology, there is evidence that some non-human apes express emotions such as shame, which would infer ethical judgments. This is not surprising since we share a common ancestor.
 
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