The Source of Anti-Semitism?

[lucybeebee]

Is it a common opinion among Jews that Christianity is the source of anti-semitism?

 

[stbruno]

Clearly the Jews were persecuted during WWII. But so were Christians persecuted and killed in those same ovens. So to generalize that Anti-Semites are only Christian is a clear example of not having the whole picture. In the Mid East, the Muslim tradition is at odds with the tradition too. However, we are all made in the image and likeness of God. Too bad, we haven’t learned that very lesson and keep the commandment to love one another as God has loved us.

 

[R_not]

Clearly the Jews were persecuted during WWII. But so were Christians persecuted and killed in those same ovens. So to generalize that Anti-Semites are only Christian is a clear example of not having the whole picture. In the Mid East, the Muslim tradition is at odds with the tradition too. However, we are all made in the image and likeness of God. Too bad, we haven’t learned that very lesson and keep the commandment to love one another as God has loved us.

The anti-semitism has been going on for two millenia - in Europe and wherever muslims are. Europeans would not allow Jews to own land, and so in order to support their families they had to do other things - and tax collectors was one way to earn a living so their families could eat.

The politicians/kings could get away with the Jews being the hated group of people by letting them be the tax collectors.

Of course, it was much more than that. I suppose it was because of the inane thinking that they killed Christ.

muslims are told to hate them because it is in their koran and hadiths. mohammed didn’t hate them when he first started his trying to convert them to islam. But since they didn’t go for his new religion and they laughed at him - he ended out hating them and converting them by the sword right along with the Christians, Zorastrians, and the pagans of his time. They, and Christians, are the ‘apes and pigs’ that mohammed refers to.

memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=sr&ID=SR01102 This article goes into it a bit - you can do your own searches.

Basically it is taught to hate Jews from birth - when children don’t even know what a Jew is. That is the sad part of all this hatred.

For any Christian to hate them while they are faced with the threats of annialiaion from the muslim world is disgraceful. I have even heard to this day they are hated because they killed Christ. Well, the people who killed Christ have been dead for about 2,000 years now - get over it! And many of their own - Europeans - had a hand in it too since Roman soldiers were made up of many peoples.

We should look at the Jews in Israel as a brilliant people. They took a land that is barren of oil - and prospered. While the muslims around them could have done the same - they instead have only the destruction of Israel on their minds - they take our hard earned tax money and other’s money, and just think about lobbing bombs into Israel. They also blame the Jews for all their ills when it is their own fault that they are unable to prosper. It is a disgraceful shame.

 

[wth1257]

ain’t there?

 

[R_not]

Ok, I give - how so?

 

[R_not]

If you are trying to say that I am an islamophobe - try again. I don’t hate muslims - I hate islam and what many muslims do to propogate the violence against non-muslims and that includes the masses of ‘moderates’ who only worry about their image while no great number of them riot, or do anything to stop that but will riot, kill and destroy churches over a cartoon and a movie.

 

[R_not]

It seems that you are trying to make some sort of a funny - but the humor is all with you, and possibly wth1257 who feels I don’t like him. boo hoo.

So, you are unable to fathom that muslims hate Jews? You don’t like that anyone writes such things. Well, get over it.

here are some items that your prophet said about us infidels - and Jews.

“WE REJECT YOU [NON-MUSLIMS]. HOSTILITY AND HATE HAVE COME BETWEEN US FOREVER, UNLESS YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH ONLY” - Surah 60:5 (Allah’s word; thus mandatory)

“KILL EVERY JEW” - Muhammad (Ishaq)

“ALLAH DESIRES KILLING TO MANIFEST ISLAM” - Muhammad

“ALLAH HATES YOU FOR ASKING TOO MANY QUESTIONS” - Muhammad (Hadith Bukhari)

“WE ARE MEN WHO THINK THERE IS NO SHAME IN KILLING” - Muhammad (Ishaq:489)

-”KILLING DISBELIEVERS IS A SMALL MATTER TO US” - Muhammad (Tabari)

here is an article about the Jews are apes and pigs.

memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=sr&ID=SR01102

And to deflect the truth is to start name calling the messengers of these nasty little tidbits. go for it - like I haven’t been called names by people better than you two.

It seems that not only allah hates people like me who asks too many questions - but you two also. Like I care.

Can we get back to the topic of this thread? Anti-Semitism? Or is it that you two just can’t seem to acknowledge that there is a problem in the muslim community in regards to Jews? Christians have a problem too - but they are not threatening to exterminate the Jews. And many Christians recognize the problem and not only support the Jews in israel, but also anywhere they want to live. Oh, that is right - many can’t even live in muslim lands and have the same rights as a muslim, nor can Christians for that matter. Because muslims arrogantly feel superior and don’t give them the right to live without fear for their lives and the lives of their families.

 

[Nickkname]

Is it a common opinion among Jews that Christianity is the source of anti-semitism?

I don’t know, but I can understand the misunderstanding of how a Jew could. Still, Jews were persecuted long before Christ came. So Christianity isn’t the source of anti-semitism.

 

[wth1257]

It seems that you are trying to make some sort of a funny - but the humor is all with you, and possibly wth1257 who feels I don’t like him. boo hoo.

So, you are unable to fathom that muslims hate Jews? You don’t like that anyone writes such things. Well, get over it.

here are some items that your prophet said about us infidels - and Jews.

“WE REJECT YOU [NON-MUSLIMS]. HOSTILITY AND HATE HAVE COME BETWEEN US FOREVER, UNLESS YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH ONLY” - Surah 60:5 (Allah’s word; thus mandatory)

“KILL EVERY JEW” - Muhammad (Ishaq)

“ALLAH DESIRES KILLING TO MANIFEST ISLAM” - Muhammad

“ALLAH HATES YOU FOR ASKING TOO MANY QUESTIONS” - Muhammad (Hadith Bukhari)

“WE ARE MEN WHO THINK THERE IS NO SHAME IN KILLING” - Muhammad (Ishaq:489)

-”KILLING DISBELIEVERS IS A SMALL MATTER TO US” - Muhammad (Tabari)

here is an article about the Jews are apes and pigs.

memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=sr&ID=SR01102

And to deflect the truth is to start name calling the messengers of these nasty little tidbits. go for it - like I haven’t been called names by people better than you two.

It seems that not only allah hates people like me who asks too many questions - but you two also. Like I care.

Can we get back to the topic of this thread? Anti-Semitism? Or is it that you two just can’t seem to acknowledge that there is a problem in the muslim community in regards to Jews? Christians have a problem too - but they are not threatening to exterminate the Jews. And many Christians recognize the problem and not only support the Jews in israel, but also anywhere they want to live. Oh, that is right - many can’t even live in muslim lands and have the same rights as a muslim, nor can Christians for that matter. Because muslims arrogantly feel superior and don’t give them the right to live without fear for their lives and the lives of their families.

I’m fantastically willing to say there is a problem with anti-Semitism in Islam, and I have had tense conversations with Muslims over anti-Semitism. Not tense in that there was personal animosity between us, but tense as it was about a touchy subject.

You claim Islam is wicked and then spew a bunch of bigotry about “moderate” Muslims, then I point out Muslims, like Akbar Ahmed, a VERY esteemed Islamic Scholar, and you just dismiss it.

Why don’t moderate Muslims do more? When they do it’s dismissed and they are accused of lying to propagate Islam and hide their true motives, it’s a truly sick system of conspiracy, paranoia, and hatred you have set up there chief.

 

[wth1257]

*[edit] Criticism
MEMRI’s work has been attacked on three grounds: that their work is biased; that they choose articles to translate selectively so as to give an unrepresentative view of the media they are reporting on; and that their translations are sometimes inaccurate.

[edit] Bias
Brian Whitaker, the Middle East editor for the Guardian newspaper in the United Kingdom, has been one of the most outspoken critics of MEMRI, writing: “My problem with Memri is that it poses as a research institute when it’s basically a propaganda operation,”[5] and that “the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel.”[4] Whitaker has also complained that “MEMRI’s website does not mention you [Carmon] or your work for Israeli intelligence. Nor does it mention MEMRI’s co-founder, Meyrav Wurmser, and her extreme brand of Zionism… Given your political background, it’s legitimate to ask whether MEMRI is a trustworthy vehicle.”[5]
Leila Hudson writes in the journal Middle East Policy, “MEMRI simultaneously highlights stories emphasizing the most extreme stereotypes of clashing Arab and Islamic civilization, which would not otherwise come to light. In effect, it amplifies the noise that most effectively distracts from the projects of engagement and negotiation. This is compounded by the interlinked series of websites, blogs and forums on the right wing of the think-tank periphery. Like the Israeli disinformation site Debka.com, MEMRI produces and amplifies noise, while buttressing the weak ‘clash of civilizations’ theory with selective extremist writing.”[17]
Messaoud Saidani of Coventry University says that although MEMRI presents itself as Middle East Research Institute it does hardly translate any controversial articles that appear in the Israeli audio-visual media. It concerns itself with Arabic, Persian and Turkish translations… but not Hebrew translations although most of its members are in fact Jewish. Not only that, but MEMRI selects bad apples from the Muslim world and blows them out of proportion to give a distorted impression of the Muslim and Arab worlds. Also, it claims to be a non-political non-partisan organisation, BUT almost all its founders had served in the IDF and the intelligence services. When Israel’s deputy Defence Minister Matan Vilnai said Palestinians risked a “shoah” (Holocaust) MEMRI did not bother to inform its readership and translate the statement made to Israel’s army radio.[18].

[edit] Selectivity
According to Juan Cole, Professor of Modern Middle East History at the University of Michigan, MEMRI has a tendency to “cleverly cherry-pick the vast Arabic press, which serves 300 million people, for the most extreme and objectionable articles and editorials”[19] Similarly, Ibrahim Hooper, a director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, stated in the Washington Times that “MEMRI’s intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible.”[4]
William Rugh, former U.S. ambassador to the United Arab Emirates and Yemen, describes MEMRI as a service which “does not present a balanced or complete picture of the Arab print media… Quotes are selected to portray Arabs as preaching hatred against Jews and westerners, praising violence and refusing any peaceful settlement of the Palestinian issue.”[20]
Laila Lalami has written that, “There are three general observations that can be made about MEMRI’s work. One is that it consistently picks the most violent, hateful rubbish it can find, translates it and distributes it in e-mail newsletters to media and members of Congress in Washington. The second is that MEMRI does not translate comparable articles published in Israel, although the country is not only a part of the Middle East but an active party to some of its most searing conflicts. For instance, when the right-wing Israeli politician Effi Eitam referred to Israel’s Palestinian citizens as a “cancer,” MEMRI did not pick up this story. The third is that this organization is now the main source of media articles on the region of Islam, a far greater and far more diverse whole than the individual countries it lists.”[21]
Ken Livingstone, former British MP and former Mayor of London, has accused MEMRI of “outright distortion”.[22][23] Journalist Rima Barakat wrote of the January 2005 Greater London Authority report that: "A study was commissioned to investigate the ‘Islamic conspiracy dossier.’ This dossier was compiled to defame a renowned Muslim scholar and was presented to British officials in an attempt to prevent a renowned Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, from entering Britain to participate in a London conference. The report found that “nearly all the distortions came from material produced by the MEMRI.”[24]*

 

[wth1257]

[edit] Translation Inaccuracy
The accuracy of MEMRI’s translations is sometimes disputed.[25][26][5][23][27]. For example, a controversy arose over MEMRI’s translation of the Arabic words “ay wilayah” in the 2004 Osama bin Laden video. Osama bin Laden’s statement was widely translated as: “Every state that does not toy with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security”.[28] The US media in general translated “state” as nation-state, and viewed Bin Laden’s statement as a warning to the US to stop intervening in the Middle East in order to guarantee US security[25]. But MEMRI interpreted “state” in the sense of a US state rather than a nation-state. MEMRI’s translation was widely reported since it differed from most earlier translations and since MEMRI’s “Special Alert” published along with Bin Laden’s speech the weekend before the 2004 presidential election stated that: “Osama bin Laden … included a specific threat to ‘each U.S. state,’ designed to influence the outcome of the upcoming election against George W. Bush.”[25] The media watchdog site mediamatters.org noted that: “MEMRI’s translation has been challenged by a number of scholars and experts,” of whom they quote Juan Cole, professor of modern Middle East History at the University of Michigan; Omer Taspinar, a foreign policy studies research fellow at the Brookings Institution; and Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert and director of the RAND Corp’s Washington, D.C. office. They include Juan Cole’s statement that bin Laden: “cannot possibly mean that he thinks Rhode Island is in a position to [trifle with Muslims’ security]”[19][26] Brian Whitaker went even further, commenting that it was “a clever bit of election propaganda on MEMRI’s part, implying that Bin Laden wanted Americans to vote for Kerry”[29]
Professor Halim Barakat of Georgetown University cited MEMRI’s translations of his own articles as an example of such distortion: “Every time I wrote Zionism, MEMRI replaced the word by Jew or Judaism. They want to give the impression that I’m not criticizing Israeli policy, but that what I’m saying is anti-Semitic.”[30]
On his blog for The Guardian, Brian Whitaker wrote that in a translation of a Hamas video showing Farfur, a Mickey-mouse figure, eliciting political comments from a young girl, the MEMRI transcript misrepresents the segment, by attributing a sentence said by the mouse figure (“I’ll shoot”) to the child, and ignoring the child’s statement (“I’m going to draw a picture”) [10] Also, where MEMRI translates the girl as saying “We will annihilate the Jews”, Whitaker and others, including Arabic speakers used by CNN, insist that based on careful listening to the low quality video clip, the girl is variously interpreted as saying, “The Jews will[are] shoot[ing at] us” or “The Jews are killing us.”[31] Whitaker concluded: “The effect of this is to devalue everything Memri translates - good and bad alike. Responsible news organisations can’t rely on anything it says without going back and checking its translations against the original Arabic.” [10]
According to Le Monde Diplomatique, MEMRI translations sometimes remove content, or even add Arabic terms not present in the original, with intent of making the statement seem more controversial. The author writes:
« M. Hani Al-Sebai, an Islamist living in Great-Britain (…) has declared regarding the victims [of the 7 July 2005 London bombings ]: “There is no term in Islamic jurisprudence for ‘civilians’. Dr Karmi [another guest] is with us and he is proficient in Islamic jurisprudence. There are the categories of ‘fighters’ and ‘non-fighters’. Islam is against the murder of innocents. According to Islam, an innocent cannot be killed.” MEMRI’s translation : “The term ‘civilian’ does not exist in Muslim religious law. Dr Karmi is with us and I am here and I know religious law. There is no ‘civilian’ in the modern Western sense. People belong to Dar al-Harb or not.” Note the introduction of the controversial term “dar al harb” …] Incidentally, MEMRI removed from its traduction Mr Al Sebai’s condemnation of any killing of innocents…»[32]

R_Not

You have at one point cited an author who seems to not actually exist, you cite a pro Zionist websight to prove the evils of Islam(part of their charter is promoting US-Israeli relations), you cite internet propaganda sites.

Do you see why this is a problem?

 

[Eden]

I think it’s pretty common knowledge that Islam has a history of anti-Semitism stemming back, in particular, to the fact that a Jewish slave woman of Mohammad’s poisoned him and said if you are truly a prophet you won’t die. Her husband had been killed by Mohammad prior to this. It took several years, but the damage to Mohammad’s body from the poisoning is what killed him. Of course prior to this, Mohammad ordered 600+ of the Jews of Banu Qurayza beheaded. So, the anti-Semitism in Islam could be said to have earlier roots.

These videos from Ahmadsquran3 on YouTube give some interesting insight into Islam and Jews:

youtube.com/ahmadsquran3

 

[Kaninchen]

Is it a common opinion among Jews that Christianity is the source of anti-semitism?

I think it’s necessary to distinguish what one means when one talks about ‘anti-Semitism’ - hatred of Judaism (which can be deduced from various New Testament passages), hatred of Jews as ‘Christ-killers’ (enacted yearly in things like like ‘Passion Plays’, for example), distrust/hatred of the ‘outsiders’ who will not conform and whose lives, beliefs and activities appear hidden and mysterious, these were traditional in Europe.

‘Anti-Semitism’, though, is a different phenomenon - it is based in the idea that there is something essentially different about Jews as ‘beings’, that Jews are a different species. That I don’t think can be blamed on Christianity in a direct sense. It was, however, a weed that grew in a soil that had been well-prepared by traditional attitudes - an unintended consequence, if you will, of a kind of theological neglect, a failure of theological immagination.

Defenders of the Church should, I would argue, acknowledge/remember that there is a real difference between concepts that might be in the subtle thinking of theologians and how those concepts played out in the not so subtle minds of many members of the ‘faithful’ and even numbers of the religious ‘professionals’ in the towns and villages of Europe.

 

[R_not]

I’m fantastically willing to say there is a problem with anti-Semitism in Islam, and I have had tense conversations with Muslims over anti-Semitism. Not tense in that there was personal animosity between us, but tense as it was about a touchy subject.

You claim Islam is wicked and then spew a bunch of bigotry about “moderate” Muslims, then I point out Muslims, like Akbar Ahmed, a VERY esteemed Islamic Scholar, and you just dismiss it.

Why don’t moderate Muslims do more? When they do it’s dismissed and they are accused of lying to propagate Islam and hide their true motives, it’s a truly sick system of conspiracy, paranoia, and hatred you have set up there chief.

Sorry, but there is no massive outcry from muslims to stop the violence. No clerics, imams or whatever they call their leaders. Only outcrys - or fatwas and also riots, deaths of innocent infidels, and destruction of infidel property - about cartoons, movies and books.

The system of conspiracy, paranoia and hatred comes from the muslims themselves. There is extensive efforts by them to intimidate and threaten businesses like youtube and liveleak when there are movies such as fitna on their websites - until the outcry from people like me outweighed the threats from the muslims. They threaten and intimidate when books such as ‘The Life and Religion of mohammed’, or other books are sold in stores and certain websites - so they are no longer sold. But, thank goodness it can still be found.

They establish the MSA in our institutions of higher education and that organization is directly connected to the muslim brotherhood pushing wahabbism and funded by the wahabbi saudis. They are pushing their ‘turnspeak’ versions of history in our children’s history books. Look up turnspeak - it is a false history. Why do they do that? So as to start the brainwashing of our children.

They demand segregation in pools, gyms, and sometimes even bathrooms. If we did that to blacks - it is against the law. they do it to us because their koran says we are dirty - and no one questions it. Well, there are groups now questioning it and there is a noticable silence on the part of the ACLU on most of the above - I would guess they are probably getting some money from the wahabbi saudis too.

They are telling us that they are to be allowed prayer rooms, etc. Well, Christians are told to keep it at home - why are all the ones telling the muslims to do the same? I personally don’t care if they are to pray however many times they want - then they can take themselves out of my sight when bowing to the moon and praying to a god that hates us infidels.

** About jihad, ‘inner struggle’

• JIHAD IS ALLAH’S COMMAND - Surah 9:29
• Those who reject Islam must be KILLED - Surah 4:89
• For the Unbelievers are open enemies to you - Surah 4:101
• FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the last day - Surah 9:29
• KILL them [non-Muslims] wherever you find and catch them - Surah 2:191
• If anyone desires a religion other the Islam, it will never be accepted of him - Surah 3:85
• Whoever changes his Islamic religion, KILL him - Surah 9:57

When Muslims fight “jihad” they obey the commands of Allah, Muhammad, the Quran, and Islam. ISLAM IS JIHAD & JIHAD IS ISLAM. AND JIHAD IS MANDATORY

“WE ARE MEN WHO THINK THERE IS NO SHAME IN KILLING” - Muhammad (Ishaq:489)

-”KILLING DISBELIEVERS IS A SMALL MATTER TO US” - Muhammad (Tabari)

“WE REJECT YOU [NON-MUSLIMS]. HOSTILITY AND HATE HAVE COME BETWEEN US FOREVER, UNLESS YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH ONLY” - Surah 60:5 (Allah’s word; thus mandatory)

“KILL EVERY JEW” - Muhammad (Ishaq)

“ALLAH DESIRES KILLING TO MANIFEST ISLAM” - Muhammad

“ALLAH HATES YOU FOR ASKING TOO MANY QUESTIONS” - Muhammad (Hadith Bukhari)*

 

[R_not]

I find islam evil. Ever since 9/11 I have read so much on islam, its history both past and present, about mohammed and different aspects of things such as psychopathy, and other brain disorders - such as frontal lobe epilepsy and narcissism, and also about fascism since all my readings islam is indeed a fascism.

I will say that nothing has led me to believe that there is anything good or benign for us infidels in islam. And all I do is try to get that word out. With the increase in the numbers of muslim immigrants - in every single country they migrate to - there has been the same M.O. Violence against non-muslims, an increase in islamization, an outcry that they are the victims, and basic chaos. And it is helped along by the left wing in these countries - people like you and wth1257.

I have even read Catholic ‘scholars’ writing about islam - and it was sickening. While so many die at muslim’s hands - they are writing that islam is peaceful, that islam is indeed an Abrahimic religion, blah blah blah - when it is not. Only mohammed’s wish that it were so. It is apparent that so many do not read the koran, hadiths, etc. And in that crowd that does not read are our own Catholic ‘scholars’. I know that a person who is a scholar in one area does not necessarily mean they know everything. That is the fallacy that so many fall into - we think that scholar covers all bases.

Loving muslims, treating them well, and being kind - has nothing to do with knowing islam, allah and mohammed (and that they are indeed evil) and what those masses of ‘moderates’ believe in and what they want for us. To be either dead, converted or subjugated. They do NOT treat us the same in their countries. They don’t care whether infidels like that fact or not either. That is the denial that way too many are about. they see a coy, virginal looking muslimette - and they think that all is fine with the world. Well, not too far behind her are the jihadists and as we have read - the women are blowing themselves up too these days. Or willing to blow their babies up - as we read in the case in the UK.

 

[morning_star777]

Is it a common opinion among Jews that Christianity is the source of anti-semitism?

after the battle of trench muhammed killed all jew men(banu quraija)of medina&made jew women and children their(muslim’s) slaves.and before this killing once he(muhammed) expelled jews(banu nazir) from medina.

 

[R_not]

Nice to hear from you morningstar!

In regards to lucybeebee - Christians have not been without sin in this regard. But, they need to realize that many of us are indeed supporting them. Especially the ones in Israel. As for many of the Jews who are muslim apologists - I will never understand that. They are refusing to acknowledge what the muslims are not only taught hatred of the Jews (and Christians or any non-muslims) in their own koran, but how that hatred is also promoted in their schools/madrassas/mosques.

It isn’t only the saudi funded hamas that is lobbing bombs into Israel daily - but the iranian funded hezbollah does the same thing from Lebanon (that they and the Palestinians have made into a pig sty of muslim violence).
And many ‘moderate’ muslim charities have been shut down that we discovered were supporting terrorists over in the Middle East and elsewhere. But, I am sure the money still flows - just not ‘above the table’ - and will be harder to find by our governments.

I wish that the anti-semitism was an embarrassing historical fact - something that we can say is in the past - but we cannot as of yet. In europe it is still alive and well. I would say that America is much better in that regard. Not to say that there haven’t been hate crimes - but in the USA we are much better about dealing with it. In Europe there is much denial and will not even do anything about it in many instances. (read any, or all, of these books: While Europe Slept, Eurabia, Menace in Europe)

 

[morning_star777]

dear R_not,almost every muslim hate jews openly.most of muslims think that jews are the vicar of satan.a muslim baby grow up with a mind that full of hate for jews.my parents also tried to teach me the same thing but when i denied then they abused me roughly(mentally).so think that,i didn’t want to hate jew ppl thats why they abused me&addressed me as kafir(its one of many reasons).how peacefull(horrible peace)and perfectthose muslims are.

 

[Sepharad]

Has anyone ever noticed something?

Of all the religions in the world, the two with the worst track record historically re: killing others in the name of their faith, also happen to be the two religions that believe that their religion has the only complete truth.

Could there be something about believing that your religion is the only full repository of truth, that can make some want to kill in the name of it?

 

[Kaninchen]

Somebody asks a question about what Jews think about the the source of antisemitism and we get, yet another, ‘Muslim ate my hamster’ thread.