The Spanish Inquisition

[Valke2]

You brought up the words “Christ killers”, not me. The Jews PHYSICALLY put Christ on the cross. They didn’t care who he was, but a threat to them and their money making in the temples.

No. The Romans physically put Jesus on the cross, according to your bible. Does your church teach that the jews had jesus killed because he was intefering with their business in the Temple?

 

[peary]

No. The Romans physically put Jesus on the cross, according to your bible. Does your church teach that the jews had jesus killed because he was intefering with their business in the Temple?

Never heard that one before, but it’s a viable possibility…up to a point.

 

[Righteousone]

No. The Romans physically put Jesus on the cross, according to your bible. Does your church teach that the jews had jesus killed because he was intefering with their business in the Temple?

Valke, everyone knows that it was political when Jesus died. He was a threat to the Jews. Why do you think he turned over the money tables in the temple? It was all about the money…even Judas needed money to turn him in.
You can continue as you have been doing for 2,000 years, to deny not only Christ, but how he died. According to the Gospels, the Jews wanted him dead more than anything else, and to this day, some Jews even (I have been told on Jewish forums) hate his guts for doing what he did. He disrupted the Jews life styles. One Jewish man even said he would of killed him himself. That is just wonderful…
And read the Gospels if you need any more info about the Jews wanting Him dead.

 

[Valke2]

That doesn’t answer my question. I understand you believe it was all about money. But my question is does the Church teach that? And I’m not sure why you feel the need (again) to talk about your belief that Jews hate and hated Jesus. What does this belief have to do with my question?

 

[Righteousone]

That doesn’t answer my question. I understand you believe it was all about money. But my question is does the Church teach that? And I’m not sure why you feel the need (again) to talk about your belief that Jews hate and hated Jesus. What does this belief have to do with my question?

The church doesn’t teach it, but people who have lived after Christ taught it. What matters is the Gospels, and how they are interpreted. Have you read the Gospels?

Our creed says that Jesus SUFFERED under Pontius Pilate, but never says He DIED under Pontius Pilate.

 

[LaMar]

Hi Righteousone,

I don’t think anything is particularly sacred, and I support criticizing any belief system. In doing so, it is most effective to restrict the critique to the belief, rather than the believers.

Have you ever talked to a rabbi or another scholar about Judaism? I don’t know where you live, but I’d be happy to find someone qualified to answer your questions if you’re interested. You’ll probably be a much more effective apologist if you become familiar with Judaism as it actually exists today.

Best,

LaMar

 

[Righteousone]

Hi Righteousone,

I don’t think anything is particularly sacred, and I support criticizing any belief system. In doing so, it is most effective to restrict the critique to the belief, rather than the believers.

Have you ever talked to a rabbi or another scholar about Judaism? I don’t know where you live, but I’d be happy to find someone qualified to answer your questions if you’re interested. You’ll probably be a much more effective apologist if you become familiar with Judaism as it actually exists today.

Best,

LaMar

I never said I was an apologist although I do know quite a lot…
Of course I am familiar with Judaism. I know the Hebrew language also. Not that good at it but fair…
Look LaMar, I am a Catholic, a follower of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world, the Messiah, the Alpha and Omega. I do not want to ‘learn’ anything that denies Jesus Christ. period. As you can see, I am steadfast in my beliefs with Christ.
I know of Judaism yesterday and today. What does that have to do with anything? Especially this thread? I am a Christian Catholic. I only want to know more about my Catholic faith. I’ve explored every religion under the sun, even yours. The truth is the Catholic church as Jesus instructed. That’s it. period.

 

[Valke2]

The church doesn’t teach it, but people who have lived after Christ taught it. What matters is the Gospels, and how they are interpreted. Have you read the Gospels?

Our creed says that Jesus SUFFERED under Pontius Pilate, but never says He DIED under Pontius Pilate.

I’m not sure how you can say you are a staunch catholic and at the same time say or imply that what the Gospels say trumps what the Church teaches.

 

[LaMar]

Hello Righteousone,

I believe that you know certain aspects of Judaism quite well (for example, that the adherents generally doubt the messiah has arrived) but you don’t know the Judaism I’ve become minimally acquainted with.

You seem to be criticizing Judaism from a one-dimensional and shallow perspective. In doing so you’re not making salient points. I believe you know this intuitively, which is why you seem inclined to personalize your discussions with HashemEchad and others.

Resorting to ad hominem is common here, and suggests that the critics don’t really know much about the subjects they’re deconstructing.

slate.com/id/2179045/

Now, there’s a criticism with substance. You’ll note that within the essay Jews are not attacked (either specific individuals, or adherents of the faith). It’s far more devastating than anything I’ve ever seen among the critics here, simply because the critic is raising salient points.

As far as “my religion” goes, I have a religious tradition, but I certainly wouldn’t take offense at a criticism of the structure of the Mormon faith. I’ve enjoyed the above author a great deal, largely for the fact that the same fellow also reduces Catholicism and Mormonism in an equally effective way.

Pax Vobiscum,

LaMar

I never said I was an apologist although I do know quite a lot…
Of course I am familiar with Judaism. I know the Hebrew language also. Not that good at it but fair…
Look LaMar, I am a Catholic, a follower of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world, the Messiah, the Alpha and Omega. I do not want to ‘learn’ anything that denies Jesus Christ. period. As you can see, I am steadfast in my beliefs with Christ.
I know of Judaism yesterday and today. What does that have to do with anything? Especially this thread? I am a Christian Catholic. I only want to know more about my Catholic faith. I’ve explored every religion under the sun, even yours. The truth is the Catholic church as Jesus instructed. That’s it. period.

 

[Righteousone]

I’m not sure how you can say you are a staunch catholic and at the same time say or imply that what the Gospels say trumps what the Church teaches.

The church teaches what the Gospels say.

 

[peary]

The church doesn’t teach it, but people who have lived after Christ taught it. What matters is the Gospels, and how they are interpreted. Have you read the Gospels?

Our creed says that Jesus SUFFERED under Pontius Pilate, but never says He DIED under Pontius Pilate.

It’s understood that Pilate was the culprit. The creeds state that Christ SUFFERED UNDER PONTIUS PILATE, and was then CRUCIFED (under Pilate - read the Scriptures!), DIED (under Pilate - read the Scriptures!) and was buried (with Pilate’s permission! Read the Scriptures!). Nothing could have affected Christ in these areas of His Passion unless Pilate had the last say-so. The Jews were powerless although they could make a lot of noise to get the deed accomplished. The deed, however, ultimately falls to Pilate.

 

[Righteousone]

It’s understood that Pilate was the culprit. The creeds state that Christ SUFFERED UNDER PONTIUS PILATE, and was then CRUCIFED (under Pilate - read the Scriptures!), DIED (under Pilate - read the Scriptures!) and was buried (with Pilate’s permission! Read the Scriptures!). Nothing could have affected Christ in these areas of His Passion unless Pilate had the last say-so. The Jews were powerless although they could make a lot of noise to get the deed accomplished. The deed, however, ultimately falls to Pilate.

Peary, no need to shout. The Jews were ultimately responsible for Christ’s death. It is what it is. When Pilate states he finds NO GUILT in him, and when Christ turns to Pilate and says THE ONE WHO HAS HANDED ME OVER TO YOU HAS THE GREATER SIN.
Do you need about 20 more lines of Scripture to understand? Or are you too blind sided by being ‘afraid’ to admit this??

 

[Righteousone]

It’s understood that Pilate was the culprit. The creeds state that Christ SUFFERED UNDER PONTIUS PILATE, and was then CRUCIFED (under Pilate - read the Scriptures!), DIED (under Pilate - read the Scriptures!) and was buried (with Pilate’s permission! Read the Scriptures!). Nothing could have affected Christ in these areas of His Passion unless Pilate had the last say-so. The Jews were powerless although they could make a lot of noise to get the deed accomplished. The deed, however, ultimately falls to Pilate.

The Jews WERE NOT powerless back then, in fact, there was more than enough high priests and kings who wanted him dead.
How on earth were they powerless?

 

[First_of_9]

The Jews WERE NOT powerless back then, in fact, there was more than enough high priests and kings who wanted him dead.
How on earth were they powerless?

Just to set the historical record straight. There was only **one **high priest and there were absolutely no Jewish kings at the time of Christ!

You might want to make sure your historical facts are correct. It might make your arguments more believable.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Just to set the historical record straight. There was only **one **high priest and there were absolutely no Jewish kings at the time of Christ!

You might want to make sure your historical facts are correct. It might make your arguments more believable.

I think he might be referring to Herod.

But his whole line of reasoing is absurd and doesn’t line up with Christ’s teachings. He’s so obsessed with being Catholic that he’s forgotten what it truly means to follow Christ.

 

[peary]

Peary, no need to shout. The Jews were ultimately responsible for Christ’s death. It is what it is. When Pilate states he finds NO GUILT in him, and when Christ turns to Pilate and says THE ONE WHO HAS HANDED ME OVER TO YOU HAS THE GREATER SIN.
Do you need about 20 more lines of Scripture to understand? Or are you too blind sided by being ‘afraid’ to admit this??

Then, according to you, the creeds are wrong.

 

[Righteousone]

I think he might be referring to Herod.

But his whole line of reasoing is absurd and doesn’t line up with Christ’s teachings. He’s so obsessed with being Catholic that he’s forgotten what it truly means to follow Christ.

And Tim, you are Catholic? And yes I am referring to King Herod.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

And Tim, you are Catholic? And yes I am referring to King Herod.

I don’t see how that’s even relevant to this conversation. If you wanted to know where my loyalties lie, you could have looked at my profile and seen that I am indeed Catholic.

 

[peary]

I think he might be referring to Herod.

.

Herod the ‘Great’ wasn’t considered a Jew by the majority of Jews because of his Idumean ancestry. Also, the Romans placed him in the position as tetrarch of Galilee. His brutality was condemned time and again by the Sanhedrin. The title ‘king’ is a misnomer because there is no connection from him to the line of David or the Davidic Kingdom from the OT. He was an imposter, at best.

 

[Righteousone]

I am sick and tired of people here, even Catholics who are not getting the picture. It really is disheartening to try and blame everyone else for Christ’s death and make excuses for the Jews. I am finished with this thread.