The Spanish Inquisition

[Tim_Kirchoff]

I am sick and tired of people here, even Catholics who are not getting the picture. It really is disheartening to try and blame everyone else for Christ’s death and make excuses for the Jews. I am finished with this thread.

Don’t you understand? We are called to forgive! To hold the Jews solely responsible for Jesus’ death is both historically and theologically irresponsible.

It doesn’t matter whther or not the Jews killed Christ, or if their religion is invalid, because we are called to love one another. God is love, not hatred, and not pride.

If you don’t want to listen, though, fine by me.

 

[Righteousone]

Don’t you understand? We are called to forgive! To hold the Jews solely responsible for Jesus’ death is both historically and theologically irresponsible.

It doesn’t matter whther or not the Jews killed Christ, or if their religion is invalid, because we are called to love one another. God is love, not hatred, and not pride.

If you don’t want to listen, though, fine by me.

Tim, I know what the Christian religion teaches. LOVE. I know it is the greatest commandment of all. I know we are called to forgive. Problem here is just ACCEPT the fact that the Jews turned their backs on Christ. That is the point here. It has nothing to do with love etc…I am not holding the Jews SOLELY responsible for his death, but I will say it was 3/4 that most wanted him dead. Don’t you get it? Or are you to afraid to make these true and accurate comments.
I say this because the Jews are in much denial about Jesus’s death. One Jewish woman told me she thought that Pilate was the guy who hung on the cross next to Christ. If she read the NT, she’d be much more educated in it. I read the OT, why not they learn and read the NT?

 

[Chellow]

Notice the Spanish Inquisition not the Catholic Inquisition.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Tim, I know what the Christian religion teaches. LOVE. I know it is the greatest commandment of all. I know we are called to forgive. Problem here is just ACCEPT the fact that the Jews turned their backs on Christ. That is the point here. It has nothing to do with love etc…I am not holding the Jews SOLELY responsible for his death, but I will say it was 3/4 that most wanted him dead. Don’t you get it? Or are you to afraid to make these true and accurate comments.
I say this because the Jews are in much denial about Jesus’s death. One Jewish woman told me she thought that Pilate was the guy who hung on the cross next to Christ. If she read the NT, she’d be much more educated in it. I read the OT, why not they learn and read the NT?

Most of the early converts to Christianity were Jewish. Christians were actually considered a Jewish sect up until the first Jewish revolt around 70 AD.

It is quite understandable that a Jew would not know much about Jesus. What significance would he have to the practiceof their religion?

 

[Righteousone]

Most of the early converts to Christianity were Jewish. Christians were actually considered a Jewish sect up until the first Jewish revolt around 70 AD.

It is quite understandable that a Jew would not know much about Jesus. What significance would he have to the practiceof their religion?

To not be ignorant of Scripture. Seems to me that Jews if they are so interested in Jesus’s death, why not just read about it?

 

[Righteousone]

Most of the early converts to Christianity were Jewish. Christians were actually considered a Jewish sect up until the first Jewish revolt around 70 AD.

It is quite understandable that a Jew would not know much about Jesus. What significance would he have to the practiceof their religion?

I am not a Protestant, but I read the biography of Martin Luther. Although I do not follow him…get it?

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

I am not a Protestant, but I read the biography of Martin Luther. Although I do not follow him…get it?

But your perspective on Luther’s life is different from that of a Lutheran. From your view, Luther is a heretic who led many astray and began the REformation, which has caused untold suffering. To them, he was a great leader who bravely opposed the man-made authorities to reinstitute Christianity as it was meant to be.

 

[Righteousone]

But your perspective on Luther’s life is different from that of a Lutheran. From your view, Luther is a heretic who led many astray and began the REformation, which has caused untold suffering. To them, he was a great leader who bravely opposed the man-made authorities to reinstitute Christianity as it was meant to be.

But Luther was A CATHOLIC MONK, which means that Catholicism EXISTED BEFORE Luther’s rage of lies. Really quite simple.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

But Luther was A CATHOLIC MONK, which means that Catholicism EXISTED BEFORE Luther’s rage of lies. Really quite simple.

A Jew could say the same thing about Jesus:shrug:

 

[Righteousone]

A Jew could say the same thing about Jesus:shrug:

True. But we don’t deny Judaism.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

True. But we don’t deny Judaism.

We don’t deny that the Old Covenant was valid. But the veil of the Temple was torn, and we believe that salvation is through Christ. Paul repeats over and over that through the works of the Law (the Law being mosaic law) there is no justification. We do deny Judaism, after a fashion.

 

[HashemEchad]

I’m not sure how you can say you are a staunch catholic and at the same time say or imply that what the Gospels say trumps what the Church teaches.

I think “righteousone” is one of the best arguments against becoming Catholic that I have ever seen.

Even if I were not Jewish, his/her comments on this forum would keep me so far away from the Catholic church I would end up not knowing anything at all about the religion.

I sincerely hope and pray that “righteousone” comes into contact with MANY Jews, and expresses his/her views to those Jews just as he/she has here…because it would be the best weapon to keep Jews from converting.

 

[HashemEchad]

Peary, no need to shout. The Jews were ultimately responsible for Christ’s death. It is what it is. When Pilate states he finds NO GUILT in him, and when Christ turns to Pilate and says THE ONE WHO HAS HANDED ME OVER TO YOU HAS THE GREATER SIN.
Do you need about 20 more lines of Scripture to understand? Or are you too blind sided by being ‘afraid’ to admit this??

You rely on the NT as if it were an historical work. IT IS NOT. It is a work of FAITH, and almost none of what is written in it can be proven.

I can only accept as historical in the Nt what is also in secular sources, otherwise, how do I know it wasn’t just fabricated by a bunch of zealous members of a new religion, seeking to gain more adherents?

 

[peary]

To not be ignorant of Scripture. Seems to me that Jews if they are so interested in Jesus’s death, why not just read about it?

What do you have against Jews?

 

[HashemEchad]

What do you have against Jews?

This may be very depressing for people like “righteousone” to realize, but if not for Christianity’s historical attacks against us for not believing in their Jesus, Jews would not care one iota about Jesus in any way, shape or form.

He is just not relevant to us! He is no more relevant than Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, or any OTHER nonJewish deity.

WHY can’t you understand this??

 

[peary]

This may be very depressing for people like “righteousone” to realize, but if not for Christianity’s historical attacks against us for not believing in their Jesus, Jews would not care one iota about Jesus in any way, shape or form.

He is just not relevant to us! He is no more relevant than Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, or any OTHER nonJewish deity.

WHY can’t you understand this??

Oh, really? I’ve met many a rabbi in my day, and NOT ONE has ever said that Jesus is “not relevant.” The vast majority of those rabbis peresonally consider him a prophet, but not the Messiah and not God. So, I don’t know where you’ve picked up the attitude from.

 

[LaMar]

Oh, really? I’ve met many a rabbi in my day, and NOT ONE has ever said that Jesus is “not relevant.” The vast majority of those rabbis peresonally consider him a prophet, but not the Messiah and not God. So, I don’t know where you’ve picked up the attitude from.

Do you consider Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell or L. Ron Hubbard relevant to your daily expression of religion? How about the Buddha, Brahman, or Anton LaVey?

 

[HashemEchad]

Oh, really? I’ve met many a rabbi in my day, and NOT ONE has ever said that Jesus is “not relevant.” The vast majority of those rabbis peresonally consider him a prophet, but not the Messiah and not God. So, I don’t know where you’ve picked up the attitude from.

I associate only with Torah observant (Orthodox) rabbis, and not one has ever said Jesus meant anything. He is never discussed in our religion except when discussing Christian persecution of Jews or missionary efforts made to try to convert us.

Maybe you were talking to the liberal rabbis (reform, conservative, etc)…for the sake of ecumenical relations (which most of them are involved in), they will often refer to Jesus as ‘a great man, a prophet’, etc etc., but truthfully, he was not a prophet by JEWISH standards because some of his prophecies did not come to pass.

As Dennis Prager, the (reform) Jewish commentator has said, “What Jesus taught that was true, was not new (i.e., he copied it from Judaism), and what he taught that was new, was not true (by Jewish standards.)”

 

[Valke2]

I’ve never heard any Rabbi refer to Jesus as a prophet. Maybe a messianic Jew would describe him is such a way. But I can’t imagine a reform, conservative or orthodox rabbi stating that. Makes no sense. IN recent decades, Jewish commentators have viewed him as one of several Jews of that time period who claimed to be the Messiah (more in a military than spiritual sense).

The fact that he taught:
Jesus forgives all sins
He taught to offer the wicked man no resistance; and
That people can come to God only through Jesus,

would completely negate the proposition that Jesus was a prophet from a JEwish perspective.

I can’t imagine any rabbi saying that.

 

[peary]

Do you consider Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell or L. Ron Hubbard relevant to your daily expression of religion? How about the Buddha, Brahman, or Anton LaVey?

Just one problem with all that…Jesus was a Jew.