The Spanish Inquisition

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HashemEchad said:
I associate only with Torah observant (Orthodox) rabbis, and not one has ever said Jesus meant anything. He is never discussed in our religion except when discussing Christian persecution of Jews or missionary efforts made to try to convert us.

Maybe you were talking to the liberal rabbis (reform, conservative, etc)…for the sake of ecumenical relations (which most of them are involved in), they will often refer to Jesus as ‘a great man, a prophet’, etc etc., but truthfully, he was not a prophet by JEWISH standards because some of his prophecies did not come to pass.

Well, yes, they did. Jerusalem was ransacked and destroyed by the Romans, just as he said it would be…and he predicted his own death (and resurrection). A prophet does not have to prophecy…a prophet is a messenger sent by God to His people. It sounds as if the orthodox have a very limited definition of prophet.

As Dennis Prager, the (reform) Jewish commentator has said, “What Jesus taught that was true, was not new (i.e., he copied it from Judaism), and what he taught that was new, was not true (by Jewish standards.)”
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No wonder the middle east will never have peace…no love there. Then again, according to Prager, then, even love is irrelevant.
 
The Temple was destroyed a first time, also, well before 70 CE.

What that also because the Jews “rejected Jesus”?

Jews have suffered persecution before Jesus, and after Jesus.

As for Jesus predicting his resurrection, we really have no proof that he was ever resurrected (besides which, Judaism has always taught that NO ONE will be resurrected until the End of Days, when ALL will be resurrected.)

Did anyone see him resurrected? Where is his body?

Oh that’s right, it was assumed into heaven (how convenient!)

Try to understand how a skeptic would see this…I’m not trying to ridicule your religion, just show you how you really need FAITH to accept any of this because there is no proof for it.
 
peary said:
No wonder the middle east will never have peace…no love there. Then again, according to Prager, then, even love is irrelevant.
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Not unlike the Middle Ages, when Crusaders went there and the Muslims and Christians slaughtered each other…no love there then, either.
 
HashemEchad said:
Not unlike the Middle Ages, when Crusaders went there and the Muslims and Christians slaughtered each other…no love there then, either.
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Muslims were the aggressors. The Christian West had every right to defend itself.
 
peary said:
Muslims were the aggressors. The Christian West had every right to defend itself.
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It all depends on whose view you accept.

The Crusaders did some pretty horrible things “in the name of Jesus”, you can’t deny that.

Even the Catholic history book I have used for my (homeschooled) daughter’s 8th grade history (The Old World and America, by Rev Philip Furlong, Ph.D., c 1937; republished 1984 by TAN) admits as much.

Either way, again, no love there either.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Logically, your bible God is an atheist. He believes there is no higher power.
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Now you are playing word games. He is not an atheist becasue he believes in himself who is God. If you make ridiculous statements like the one above, people will not respect your opinion because they will recognize that you are nothting more than a sophist.
 
peary said:
Muslims were the aggressors. The Christian West had every right to defend itself.
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I agree with you. Its ridiculous how liberals believe that everyone has a right to defend themeselves except for Christians.
 
East_and_West said:
I agree with you. Its ridiculous how liberals believe that everyone has a right to defend themeselves except for Christians.
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Were the Crusaders also defending themselves as they marched through France and Germany on their way to the Near East, massacring Jews in the French and German towns and villages along the way?
 
HashemEchad said:
The Temple was destroyed a first time, also, well before 70 CE.

I am referring to the 2nd temple.

As for Jesus predicting his resurrection, we really have no proof that he was ever resurrected (besides which, Judaism has always taught that NO ONE will be resurrected until the End of Days, when ALL will be resurrected.)

At the time there were sects which did not believe in the resurrection. There are Jews today who don’t believe in the resurrection.

Did anyone see him resurrected? Where is his body?

The Church is the best witness to the living Christ.
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HashemEchad said:
You rely on the NT as if it were an historical work. IT IS NOT. It is a work of FAITH, and almost none of what is written in it can be proven.

I can only accept as historical in the Nt what is also in secular sources, otherwise, how do I know it wasn’t just fabricated by a bunch of zealous members of a new religion, seeking to gain more adherents?
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Who are you Hashem to say it is just a book of faith? IT IS HISTORICAL ALSO. To you the NT is anything but the truth. There is even a book written by a Jew entitled “The New Testament according to Disney”. Jews make fun of the NT all the time. I think it’s disgusting and ignorant to do so.
 
HashemEchad said:
Were the Crusaders also defending themselves as they marched through France and Germany on their way to the Near East, massacring Jews in the French and German towns and villages along the way?
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Oh brother…here we go again with the Jews being slaughtered, as if they are the only ones who died in vain. For God sakes, for every Jew that was killed, there were 3 Christians killed. All the saints and there are thousands of them, centuries ago, were killed for what they believed in. I’'d rather die for Jesus Christ then for no reason whatsoever. Christians were thrown to the lions, so many killed over the centuries UP UNTIL TODAY THEY ARE STILL BEING KILLED ALL OVER THE WORLD. I am just tired of hearing about the poor Jews when others were also killed by the thousands.

And your information is WRONG about the crusades. I happen to know and if you read history, that Jews instigated the deaths of many Muslims. Look it up.
 
HashemEchad said:
The Temple was destroyed a first time, also, well before 70 CE.

What that also because the Jews “rejected Jesus”?

Jews have suffered persecution before Jesus, and after Jesus.

As for Jesus predicting his resurrection, we really have no proof that he was ever resurrected (besides which, Judaism has always taught that NO ONE will be resurrected until the End of Days, when ALL will be resurrected.)

Did anyone see him resurrected? Where is his body?

Oh that’s right, it was assumed into heaven (how convenient!)

Try to understand how a skeptic would see this…I’m not trying to ridicule your religion, just show you how you really need FAITH to accept any of this because there is no proof for it.
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I resent how over and over you constantly display such bitterness and hatred toward the Catholic faith. Everything is how Jews were killed. [BWhat about how Jews were saved? By the thoudsands by the Catholic church? Why not talk about that?**
 
Righteousone said:
Who are you Hashem to say it is just a book of faith? IT IS HISTORICAL ALSO. To you the NT is anything but the truth. There is even a book written by a Jew entitled “The New Testament according to Disney”. Jews make fun of the NT all the time. I think it’s disgusting and ignorant to do so.
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I have news for you: the OT is ALSO a work of FAITH. Very little in there can be proven historically either!

BOTH Bibles must be taken on FAITH. I take my Bible on FAITH, and you take yours on FAITH.
 
Righteousone said:
Oh brother…here we go again with the Jews being slaughtered, as if they are the only ones who died in vain. For God sakes, for every Jew that was killed, there were 3 Christians killed. All the saints and there are thousands of them, centuries ago, were killed for what they believed in. I’'d rather die for Jesus Christ then for no reason whatsoever. Christians were thrown to the lions, so many killed over the centuries UP UNTIL TODAY THEY ARE STILL BEING KILLED ALL OVER THE WORLD. I am just tired of hearing about the poor Jews when others were also killed by the thousands.

And your information is WRONG about the crusades. I happen to know and if you read history, that Jews instigated the deaths of many Muslims. Look it up.
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HONEST Catholic historians admit that there were “excesses” committed during the Crusades, by BOTH Christians and Muslims.

You just can’t admit it when people in your religion mess up, can you? Now you see a major reason why many people have so little respect for your church.

You know, if I did not know better, I’d think you are an anti-Catholic fundamentalist or atheist, trying to make the Catholic church look bad.

Because until I found this forum, I had a very high regard for (most of) the traditional Catholic religion based on what I know of it. I had defended the church when I felt she deserved defending, even though doing so made some Protestants, Jews and atheists dislike me or think I was foolish.

But after being here, and esp., after seeing all your drivel against the Jewish people, and refusing to admit when your co-religionists made mistakes, my feelings about your church are changing.
 
Righteousone said:
Who are you Hashem to say it is just a book of faith? IT IS HISTORICAL ALSO. To you the NT is anything but the truth.
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The NT is as historical as the story of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. Seriously.
 
HashemEchad said:
HONEST Catholic historians admit that there were “excesses” committed during the Crusades, by BOTH Christians and Muslims.

You just can’t admit it when people in your religion mess up, can you? Now you see a major reason why many people have so little respect for your church.

You know, if I did not know better, I’d think you are an anti-Catholic fundamentalist or atheist, trying to make the Catholic church look bad.

Because until I found this forum, I had a very high regard for (most of) the traditional Catholic religion based on what I know of it. I had defended the church when I felt she deserved defending, even though doing so made some Protestants, Jews and atheists dislike me or think I was foolish.

But after being here, and esp., after seeing all your drivel against the Jewish people, and refusing to admit when your co-religionists made mistakes, my feelings about your church are changing.
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Well, that’s your opinion and your mission here is to try and make me look bad, but EVERY ONE OF MY POSTS I HAVE DEFENDED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. And will continue to do so. I will defend Christ until the end.
And if I, ONE PERSON out of the MANY CATHOLICS HERE on this forum make you supposedly change your mind about the faith, THAT PROVES RIGHT THERE, you don’t think much of Catholicism anyway.
And many, many people DO have respect for my church, you are the only one who doesn’t. I can say the same thing about you. That your attitude toward the Catholic church makes people dislike Jews.
 
Righteousone said:
Well, that’s your opinion and your mission here is to try and make me look bad, but EVERY ONE OF MY POSTS I HAVE DEFENDED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. And will continue to do so. I will defend Christ until the end.
And if I, ONE PERSON out of the MANY CATHOLICS HERE on this forum make you supposedly change your mind about the faith, THAT PROVES RIGHT THERE, you don’t think much of Catholicism anyway.
And many, many people DO have respect for my church, you are the only one who doesn’t. I can say the same thing about you. That your attitude toward the Catholic church makes people dislike Jews.
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My “mission” here has nothing to do with you, despite your obvious ego issues. I simply respond to false charges you make.

And if your church really was true, why would it need such “defending”, least of all by you? I have shown you, even directly with links to the Vatican website, that your own Pope has apologized for the excesses committed by his/your church during the Inquisitions and Crusades.

I have mentioned Catholic school history books by Catholic priests from before Vatican 2, who admit to the excesses.

Yet you choose to deny historical fact, and what a Pope of YOUR OWN CHURCH has admitted to.

I cannot help it if you choose to be ignorant and blind, and disobedient to the teachings of your own Pope.

And despite that, maybe you have not read all my posts, because I often defend your church when I feel it deserves defending. I have not attacked any Catholic beliefs except when someone went on the initiative and tried to convert me to their religion, or attacked MY religion.

As a longtime activist in Jewish-Catholic ecumenical work, I have striven to understand the Catholic faith although disagreeing with it personally.

But honestly, people like you make me seriously wonder if I have wasted my time, and if I should not finally listen to what many Orthodox Jews have told me, which is: leave them alone, and pray they leave us alone.

Even if I do stop defending the Catholic church to Protestants, Jews and others who badmouth it, I will remember that even though Catholics like you exist in the world, there were also good, decent and holy Catholics like the late John Cardinal O’Connor, who I counted as a cherished acquaintance of mine when he was alive. My defenses of your church were largely due to my wish to honor the memory of that great man.
 
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